I just read a story of a boat in England that lost it's rudder. They had to abandon ship because they said it would have been impossible to get into port. They were 10 miles out at the start,a nd the next day, after abandoning ship. the boat was within a mile of the lee shore. It foundered on the rocks on shore, was holed, aand lost the mast. A total loss. It was insured. The crew was a race crew that knesw how to sail. I practice for this event duning the sailing seasona nd found you can somewhat steer the ship with the sails and traveler. Also the CG had to rescue them. I WOULD HAVE ASKED FOR A long OAR TYPE CONTRAPTION IN ORDER TO STEER THE BOAT. (sorry for the caps.) What would you do?
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What I would do has to depend on what’s available
The boats I choose to sail for the most part will steer themselves by balancing the sail plan. For example my first trans-Atlantic was on a 22 foot Sea Sprite and she did the trip with no windvane or electronic self steering. The entire trip was done with the boat sailing herself by balancing the sail plan. My current boat is a Tartan 34C and she will also sail herself so the lose of a rudder is not a great disaster on that boat either. Other boats I have sailed are not as balanced but I am sure a jury rig could be built from a bunk board and spinnaker pole for just one example. It’s hard for me to imagine a boat that didn’t have enough stuff on board to make some form of steering gear. What I would build has to depend on what’s available but to be without any recourse by sail trim, repair or jury rig is unthinkable. All the best, Robert Gainer
The boats I choose to sail for the most part will steer themselves by balancing the sail plan. For example my first trans-Atlantic was on a 22 foot Sea Sprite and she did the trip with no windvane or electronic self steering. The entire trip was done with the boat sailing herself by balancing the sail plan. My current boat is a Tartan 34C and she will also sail herself so the lose of a rudder is not a great disaster on that boat either. Other boats I have sailed are not as balanced but I am sure a jury rig could be built from a bunk board and spinnaker pole for just one example. It’s hard for me to imagine a boat that didn’t have enough stuff on board to make some form of steering gear. What I would build has to depend on what’s available but to be without any recourse by sail trim, repair or jury rig is unthinkable. All the best, Robert Gainer
Steer with sails!
It'sa lot easier than you think, as long as your boat doesnt have too much weather or lee helm to begin with. just ease the jib to bear off, ease the main to head up, and then once you turn, balance the boat again! This is the entire concept to "heaving to" (as the boat falls off, the main powers up and heads you back to where you were, if you point higher, the main gets blanketed and the boat falls off). thats the short of it..I'll leave the detailed explanations to someone else.
It'sa lot easier than you think, as long as your boat doesnt have too much weather or lee helm to begin with. just ease the jib to bear off, ease the main to head up, and then once you turn, balance the boat again! This is the entire concept to "heaving to" (as the boat falls off, the main powers up and heads you back to where you were, if you point higher, the main gets blanketed and the boat falls off). thats the short of it..I'll leave the detailed explanations to someone else.
Steering with sails
Could it be that steering with the sails does not work well without the rudder, serving as a second foil? I don't know, I have been able to get my Mac25 to balance enough to hold a course, but the rudder is always down. I imagine on a full keel boat the rudder isn't adding a lot, but on a Mac25, it is at least 15-20% more foil than keel alone.
Could it be that steering with the sails does not work well without the rudder, serving as a second foil? I don't know, I have been able to get my Mac25 to balance enough to hold a course, but the rudder is always down. I imagine on a full keel boat the rudder isn't adding a lot, but on a Mac25, it is at least 15-20% more foil than keel alone.
Steering with no rudder
I personally havent tried to sail without the rudder, because im not willing to take or knock it off to prove the theory
I have practiced with the helm lashed to center with some success and with plenty of sea room. I was wondering, what if you say trailed some lines (extra halyards, rode) to stabilize the stern much like you might in a steep following sea? Further, I think if I was headed for a lee shore, and had a dinghy, liferaft, which we always have when other than day sailing, or an ANCHOR, I would abandon ship as a last resort. Wasnt there though.... Cheers
I personally havent tried to sail without the rudder, because im not willing to take or knock it off to prove the theory
I have practiced with the helm lashed to center with some success and with plenty of sea room. I was wondering, what if you say trailed some lines (extra halyards, rode) to stabilize the stern much like you might in a steep following sea? Further, I think if I was headed for a lee shore, and had a dinghy, liferaft, which we always have when other than day sailing, or an ANCHOR, I would abandon ship as a last resort. Wasnt there though.... Cheers
There have been many articles written on this
subject in Cruising World, Sail and other magazines, as well as books. I recommend checking out Cruising World's archives, which include some god ones about boats "like most of ours" (Catalinas, etc., with fin keels and spade rudders). I remember one about a C36 specifically that was very good. There sure is a difference between completely losing a rudder vs. having one stuck that won't turn (assuming its position is somewhere amidship).
subject in Cruising World, Sail and other magazines, as well as books. I recommend checking out Cruising World's archives, which include some god ones about boats "like most of ours" (Catalinas, etc., with fin keels and spade rudders). I remember one about a C36 specifically that was very good. There sure is a difference between completely losing a rudder vs. having one stuck that won't turn (assuming its position is somewhere amidship).
I haven't practiced this on my current boats
but as a teenager we did do this with a boat a little bigger than a Snipe whose rudder was broken (wood). It was a lot of fun and much more challenging than using the rudder. If I recall it was a lot easier to jibe the main than to come about into the wind. I suppose that having a centerboard on the boat might help also. On my Tartan 27' we can steer the boat using the centerboard alone while leaving the tiller to itself (again, a centerboard boat). We also carry a heavy duty spin pole that could be embellished with a blade with some hardware to make a crude sweep oar. You would need a pretty big oar to be able to turn a boat weighing over 3 tons. I wish more info were available on this story. I am not sure why the crew of this boat had to head to port just then; what were the weather conditions, supplies on board etc. They possibly could have stayed away from the lee shore and radioed (they must have had a radio?) for help with a tow and waited it out offshore. Surely they had an anchor or two, and could have tried to anchor the boat once closer to shore if they could not stay offshore. Too few details available to assess what happened.
but as a teenager we did do this with a boat a little bigger than a Snipe whose rudder was broken (wood). It was a lot of fun and much more challenging than using the rudder. If I recall it was a lot easier to jibe the main than to come about into the wind. I suppose that having a centerboard on the boat might help also. On my Tartan 27' we can steer the boat using the centerboard alone while leaving the tiller to itself (again, a centerboard boat). We also carry a heavy duty spin pole that could be embellished with a blade with some hardware to make a crude sweep oar. You would need a pretty big oar to be able to turn a boat weighing over 3 tons. I wish more info were available on this story. I am not sure why the crew of this boat had to head to port just then; what were the weather conditions, supplies on board etc. They possibly could have stayed away from the lee shore and radioed (they must have had a radio?) for help with a tow and waited it out offshore. Surely they had an anchor or two, and could have tried to anchor the boat once closer to shore if they could not stay offshore. Too few details available to assess what happened.
The problem with a lost rudder is the shift
in your center of lateral resistance. It all is at the keel. With jib only you will only sail down wind and with the main only the boat will round up and stop then fall of on one tack or the other. I don't think you could make much way to the weather. The strength of the winds would also have a big influence on your decision.
in your center of lateral resistance. It all is at the keel. With jib only you will only sail down wind and with the main only the boat will round up and stop then fall of on one tack or the other. I don't think you could make much way to the weather. The strength of the winds would also have a big influence on your decision.
You can try simulating a missing rudder
If you can balance the boat with the rudder loose then you can balance the boat with the rudder missing because when it’s loose it has no influence on the center of lateral resistance. All the best, Robert Gainer
If you can balance the boat with the rudder loose then you can balance the boat with the rudder missing because when it’s loose it has no influence on the center of lateral resistance. All the best, Robert Gainer
from pbo
The story was online at Practcal Boat Owners publisher IPC. The Ocean was to rough and the CG would not allow a tow boat out of the harbor. The water was apparently too deep to anchor. They tore up the boat to try to make a makeshift rudder to o avail. Not sure of the food on board. And the owner/captain felt there was no way they could sail into the harbor without a rudder.
The story was online at Practcal Boat Owners publisher IPC. The Ocean was to rough and the CG would not allow a tow boat out of the harbor. The water was apparently too deep to anchor. They tore up the boat to try to make a makeshift rudder to o avail. Not sure of the food on board. And the owner/captain felt there was no way they could sail into the harbor without a rudder.
Robert Gainer is right again (IMHO).
If you let your tiller or wheel steer itself freely you will feel only the work of the hull and the sails with minimal effect from the rudder. While it can be pretty easy, with practice, to get a sailing dinghy to come about or jibe, it could be a different situation with a many ton SV. I intended to try and practice coming about or jibing with the rudder free and clear to move about at will. I think that this an 'old school' method that is overlooked today. I would not want to have to practice this procedure in any bad weather though so as an armchair viewer I could see making this captains choice to abandon ship rather than risk all their lives on a maybe. I know that I have not seen half the fury that the ocean and coastal waters can throw at me so I would rather be more safety conscious than worried about my tactics for racing. Try sailing your boat without the rudder sometime when there is some room and just adjusting the sails. I will.
If you let your tiller or wheel steer itself freely you will feel only the work of the hull and the sails with minimal effect from the rudder. While it can be pretty easy, with practice, to get a sailing dinghy to come about or jibe, it could be a different situation with a many ton SV. I intended to try and practice coming about or jibing with the rudder free and clear to move about at will. I think that this an 'old school' method that is overlooked today. I would not want to have to practice this procedure in any bad weather though so as an armchair viewer I could see making this captains choice to abandon ship rather than risk all their lives on a maybe. I know that I have not seen half the fury that the ocean and coastal waters can throw at me so I would rather be more safety conscious than worried about my tactics for racing. Try sailing your boat without the rudder sometime when there is some room and just adjusting the sails. I will.
Stu Jackson makes an interesting point
Stu Jackson makes an interesting point about having a rudder that is stuck off center. An Edson system would be hard pressed to suffer from that but some other systems use a tie rod between the pedestal and the quadrant and can lock up. Ken Barns in his recent round the world attempt suffered from that when the rig crushed the pedestal. It’s one of the things that put an end to any thoughts of saving the boat. He didn’t have a way to center the rudder so towing or rigging a sail was out of the question. If you have such a system maybe thinking about how to drop the tie-rod in an emergency is worthwhile. All the best, Robert Gainer
Stu Jackson makes an interesting point about having a rudder that is stuck off center. An Edson system would be hard pressed to suffer from that but some other systems use a tie rod between the pedestal and the quadrant and can lock up. Ken Barns in his recent round the world attempt suffered from that when the rig crushed the pedestal. It’s one of the things that put an end to any thoughts of saving the boat. He didn’t have a way to center the rudder so towing or rigging a sail was out of the question. If you have such a system maybe thinking about how to drop the tie-rod in an emergency is worthwhile. All the best, Robert Gainer
Point?
The question was 'rudder gone'. If a rudder is stuck, you cut it free or use lines to steer it. Keep dive gear aboard at all times, crabtraps etc...and stay outside the 50 fathom line as traps are rare at that depth when cruising the coast. BTW this is s DISCUSSION fourum not a referral. There are thousands of books articles and nonsense written on all of these subjects. Folks that write here are asking for opinions from experienced people here on site. I know of books and opinions written by folks that have not even been there, they repeat what some other fool wrote.
The question was 'rudder gone'. If a rudder is stuck, you cut it free or use lines to steer it. Keep dive gear aboard at all times, crabtraps etc...and stay outside the 50 fathom line as traps are rare at that depth when cruising the coast. BTW this is s DISCUSSION fourum not a referral. There are thousands of books articles and nonsense written on all of these subjects. Folks that write here are asking for opinions from experienced people here on site. I know of books and opinions written by folks that have not even been there, they repeat what some other fool wrote.
Drogue... Drone
Whatever. If I wanted a grammer/english/spelling lesson I would have stayed in school. I don't have one of those thingy's anyway.
Whatever. If I wanted a grammer/english/spelling lesson I would have stayed in school. I don't have one of those thingy's anyway.
The decision to abandon the boat was probably
the correct one and probably not hard to make. Weather around England can be treacherous at certain times of the year. A boat with no steering in heavy seas and weather can be quite dangerous. The safety of the crew is the first and foremost responsibility of the captain. Upon the loss of the rudder it was his duty to make a distress call. Most rescue efforts are geared to providing for the safety of the crew and do not include towing a boat. Only a commercial salvage operation would have tackled the towing of the boat and that would have been for a very hefty fee. The fact that they were a mile from a lee shore probably closed the deal. Yes there are stories of people who weathered storms and jerri rigged their boats to make it home, but they probably had no other choice and it was probably do or die.
the correct one and probably not hard to make. Weather around England can be treacherous at certain times of the year. A boat with no steering in heavy seas and weather can be quite dangerous. The safety of the crew is the first and foremost responsibility of the captain. Upon the loss of the rudder it was his duty to make a distress call. Most rescue efforts are geared to providing for the safety of the crew and do not include towing a boat. Only a commercial salvage operation would have tackled the towing of the boat and that would have been for a very hefty fee. The fact that they were a mile from a lee shore probably closed the deal. Yes there are stories of people who weathered storms and jerri rigged their boats to make it home, but they probably had no other choice and it was probably do or die.
What would I do?
I've always carried a paddle no matter how big the boat. Just recently I was given the opportunity to sail a traditional Hawaiian sailing canoe. They have no rudder by design. You steer with a paddle. What surprised me was how you steer. The paddle goes straight up and down. The deeper you push the paddle down, the less leeward drift the stern has, and the bow falls off. The bow points back into the wind as you pull the paddle up and increase the leeward drift on the stern. To tack you pull the paddle all the way out, After the bow goes through the wind, you push the paddle deep on the opposite side to keep the bow swinging. My waters are a lot calmer then the coast of England. My lee shores are all mud and sand. I can afford to experiment. I think I'll pull up my rudder and try this next season.
I've always carried a paddle no matter how big the boat. Just recently I was given the opportunity to sail a traditional Hawaiian sailing canoe. They have no rudder by design. You steer with a paddle. What surprised me was how you steer. The paddle goes straight up and down. The deeper you push the paddle down, the less leeward drift the stern has, and the bow falls off. The bow points back into the wind as you pull the paddle up and increase the leeward drift on the stern. To tack you pull the paddle all the way out, After the bow goes through the wind, you push the paddle deep on the opposite side to keep the bow swinging. My waters are a lot calmer then the coast of England. My lee shores are all mud and sand. I can afford to experiment. I think I'll pull up my rudder and try this next season.
Speaking from Experience
My wife and I lost our rudder between St. Lucia and Martinique. Passage was about 15 miles open to the Atlantic. We had left Rodney Bay about 9:00 in the am heading north with winds from the northeast at 20-25 kts. Seas were 10-12 feet. We were on a close reach with two reefs. (Boat is a Metalmast 36, fin keel and spade rudder). The seas generally build up around the headland going north due to the current but settle down after 3-5 miles. About 3 miles out, the boat rounded up and the helm lost all feel. I looked over the stern and the rudder was totally gone! The first thing my wife asked "Are we going to sink?" The short answer was no. The rudder had fractured through the 4 inch SS rudder post at the waterline. The rudder post seal was intact. I tried lashing the spinnaker pole with a piece of plywood secured to the end onto the stern. You can't believe how much pressure there is. Because of the height of the topsides, you have to put the pole at a high angle to get any bite and you end up with no leverage. I had started the engine and further shortened sail but trying to keep the boat going on a beam reach or better was too hard without the stabilizing effect of the rudder. I then left the pole lashed in place and put a canvas carry-all bag secured to two lines over the stern. I led the lines to the primary winches and was able to drag the heading of the boat to starboard by adjusting the lines. The boat was crabbing but was making headway. We operated this way for seven hours to complete the remaining 12-13 miles to St. Anne in Martinique where we anchored off the beach. I don't think we could have done this without the engine to keep us moving. Why didn't we go back to St. Lucia? We were too far west and I did not think we could get back. We may have ended up in Belize! Also, St. Anne is the center of yachting in the area and has much better facilities to do extensive repairs than St. Lucia. We eventually found a local craftsman to fabricate a new rudder using the remains of the old rudder post. The old one had failed because of water getting inside and rusting the weld joint between the post and the "fingers" inside. The fingers were made from mild steel! We replaced the fingers with 316L stainless, built a mold box, filled with foam, shaped, covered in woven roving, mat and cloth, gelcoat, bottom paint and reinstalled. It took 4 weeks and cost about $3000 usd. After this experience, I made an emergency rudder that mounts to the transom with pintles and gudgeons. It breaks into two pieces and stores under the vee berth. I tried it out and it works but with the rudder in place you can't really test it. If you decide to make an emergency rudder, make it twice as strong as you think and you might be ok. Get out there and check your rudders for water intrusion. Any rust streaks or movement of the blade relative to the post are indication you have an internal problem. Good luck out there!
My wife and I lost our rudder between St. Lucia and Martinique. Passage was about 15 miles open to the Atlantic. We had left Rodney Bay about 9:00 in the am heading north with winds from the northeast at 20-25 kts. Seas were 10-12 feet. We were on a close reach with two reefs. (Boat is a Metalmast 36, fin keel and spade rudder). The seas generally build up around the headland going north due to the current but settle down after 3-5 miles. About 3 miles out, the boat rounded up and the helm lost all feel. I looked over the stern and the rudder was totally gone! The first thing my wife asked "Are we going to sink?" The short answer was no. The rudder had fractured through the 4 inch SS rudder post at the waterline. The rudder post seal was intact. I tried lashing the spinnaker pole with a piece of plywood secured to the end onto the stern. You can't believe how much pressure there is. Because of the height of the topsides, you have to put the pole at a high angle to get any bite and you end up with no leverage. I had started the engine and further shortened sail but trying to keep the boat going on a beam reach or better was too hard without the stabilizing effect of the rudder. I then left the pole lashed in place and put a canvas carry-all bag secured to two lines over the stern. I led the lines to the primary winches and was able to drag the heading of the boat to starboard by adjusting the lines. The boat was crabbing but was making headway. We operated this way for seven hours to complete the remaining 12-13 miles to St. Anne in Martinique where we anchored off the beach. I don't think we could have done this without the engine to keep us moving. Why didn't we go back to St. Lucia? We were too far west and I did not think we could get back. We may have ended up in Belize! Also, St. Anne is the center of yachting in the area and has much better facilities to do extensive repairs than St. Lucia. We eventually found a local craftsman to fabricate a new rudder using the remains of the old rudder post. The old one had failed because of water getting inside and rusting the weld joint between the post and the "fingers" inside. The fingers were made from mild steel! We replaced the fingers with 316L stainless, built a mold box, filled with foam, shaped, covered in woven roving, mat and cloth, gelcoat, bottom paint and reinstalled. It took 4 weeks and cost about $3000 usd. After this experience, I made an emergency rudder that mounts to the transom with pintles and gudgeons. It breaks into two pieces and stores under the vee berth. I tried it out and it works but with the rudder in place you can't really test it. If you decide to make an emergency rudder, make it twice as strong as you think and you might be ok. Get out there and check your rudders for water intrusion. Any rust streaks or movement of the blade relative to the post are indication you have an internal problem. Good luck out there!
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