Rudder crack

P

Peter

.
Apr 26, 2016
271
Macgregor 26M ca
Now that all the bottom paint is gone I've had a chance to closely
inspect the rudder.
Two things draw my attention:
1. A 2" (50 mm)hole, plugged, on the bottom front starboard side.
Was this a hole used for filling the core, or is it a 'mystery'
patch?

2. A hairlins crack, about 2" (50 mm), at the very top along the
seam joining the two halves.

The shaft seems to go all the way through (tested electrically) and
feels very solid. A 'tap' test on the rudder leads me to believe it
is solid fibreglass ... I can't get a hollow sound anywhere. I'm
tempted to dremel out the crack, fill it with thickened epoxy, and
leave well enough alone. The rest of the seam is tight.

I guess I'm fishing for advice :)

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'
 
C

calld2bhis

.
Nov 1, 2006
9
Just pulled my vega "freya" hull 1493 out of the water. I have the
same plug in the bottom of the rudder. Also a hairline crack at the
top of the rudder near the back of the rudder. I'd also be
interested in knowing if anyone else has had this and what to do
about it.
 
S

stevebirch2002

.
Nov 8, 2001
1,818
Hi All

I had a similar thing last year but also had teh bottom aft corner
brokem away as I had kept reversing into mud and flint to beat the
tide!

Drilled three holes in teh rudder to let it dry thoroughly (2 months in
my front room) then ground out the crack and filled with epoxy,
re-enforced the holes I had drilled and filled with epoxy and glass.
Gave the whole rudder three coats of epoxy then primer and antifoul.

Hope this helps

Cheers

Steve Birch (Technical)
 
P

pjacobs55

.
Oct 30, 2019
1,459
I cleaned out the two small cracks by gently drawing a handsaw
through them, then filled with epoxy. I ran two strips of fiber
glass cloth (one 1" [25mm] wide, the second 2"[51mm] wide) along the
the joint adjacent to the shaft, from top to bottom, using epoxy. As
a matter of interested the rudder weighs 57 lbs (25.9 kg).

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'

P.S. Steve, thanks for the bushing dimensions!
 
C

cedricbaele

.
Mar 23, 2005
66
I myself had some hairline cracks in my rudder. Upon closer inspection and further removal of the bottom paint, I found it to be longer than I was comfortable with. Knowing that weak rudders was something to look out for in our Vegas, I decided to investigate further. After a little tapping and looking at some rust stain coming out of the cracks, I decided to split the rudder open, reinforce the stainless skeleton and build a whole new rudder.
The hardest part was to get the rudder shaft and skeleton out of the old rudder. The inside though was full of water and have some horror pictures to prove it. Basically the inside of my rudder was a mix of what looked like epoxy mixed with sand and the same foam as in the deck sandwich (my Vega is #2941-1976, other rudders might be different).
There is a very good file on the group site about how to build a new Vega rudder. I basically followed those instructions (even the measurements are spot on).
I also had a welding shop weld a plate in between the rudder "tangs", so at this point, the whole rudder could split and I would still have a minimal rudder of sorts.
I would be happy to provide further tips to anyone interested.
The rudder is definitely one of the most crucial parts of the boat and I was glad to have the peace of mind provided by a new rudder.
 
P

pelagicasd

.
Jan 28, 2001
694
Hi Cedric, Hi Peter. Lyric suffered a broken weld on her rudder shaft a
while back. I wound up splitting the seam on the forward side of the blade
and then prying the two halves apart. A friend welded a more substantial
tang to the shaft and I epoxied the whole thing back together. Used a bunch
of clamps on the shaft side and drilled and through bolted the aft part.
After the epoxy had set I removed the bolts. (heat them to lake the epoxy
let go). I also ran glass tape over the froward seam. My rudder was filled
with a sand and resin mix too. My shaft doesn't go all the way through
though. The bottom end sits on short piece of what I presume to be 25mm
stainless which sits in the rudder shoe. One thing I did while the the
rudder was off the boat was drilled a 3/4 inch hole toward the rear of the
blade. If the weld ever breaks again I'll be able to pass a piece of line
through the hole. By tying overhand knots on each side of the the hole I'll
be able to steer it with the lines. It would entail getting wet to rig the
lines but better than being stuch out at sea with no way to steer. Walt
 
T

trevy_kins

.
Oct 31, 2019
230
Hmmm. . . all these cracked rudders make me wonder if the rudder needs
to be drained in preparation for winter in freezing climates? And if
so, must holes be drilled? Perhaps installing a permanent drain plug
would be in order. Has anyone done this? Cheers, Trev V2915

________________________________

From: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of pjacobs55
Sent: November 25, 2006 11:25 AM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AlbinVega] Re: Rudder crack
I cleaned out the two small cracks by gently drawing a handsaw
through them, then filled with epoxy. I ran two strips of fiber
glass cloth (one 1" [25mm] wide, the second 2"[51mm] wide) along the
the joint adjacent to the shaft, from top to bottom, using epoxy. As
a matter of interested the rudder weighs 57 lbs (25.9 kg).

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'

P.S. Steve, thanks for the bushing dimensions!
 
P

pjacobs55

.
Oct 30, 2019
1,459
I too would like to know the best location for a rudder drain plug,
maybe from someone who has had one apart. With my record I'd
probably drill right through one of the metal reinforcement pieces :-
(

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'
 
C

cedricbaele

.
Mar 23, 2005
66
Due to the nature of the rudder filling (foam and epoxy/sand mixture), it seems like installing a drain plug would have little effect.
If you really don't care to take your rudder apart (still the best option in the long run, especially if you have cracks), then I suppose that drilling a series of holes, drying them out and then filling them with epoxy would provide a solution.
This could be done very much like one would repair a cored deck that has water infiltration. A "grid" of holes are drilled, then they are dried out, after which one can inject epoxy with a syringe in each hole, making sure that epoxy comes out of the surrounding holes before moving to the next one.
It's what I plan to do on my foredeck, since it looks like a little water got in there. I can do that since I will be repainting the nonskid and thus covering the holes up.

Hope this helps,

Cedric
V-2941 "Lyra"
Charleston, SC
 
T

trevy_kins

.
Oct 31, 2019
230
Thanks, for the ideas, Cedric. Good luck with your deck. Why not take
some pics of the project and post them? Trev V2915.

________________________________

From: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Cedric Baele
Sent: November 28, 2006 7:59 AM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AlbinVega] Re: Rudder crack
Due to the nature of the rudder filling (foam and epoxy/sand mixture),
it seems like installing a drain plug would have little effect.
If you really don't care to take your rudder apart (still the best
option in the long run, especially if you have cracks), then I suppose
that drilling a series of holes, drying them out and then filling them
with epoxy would provide a solution.
This could be done very much like one would repair a cored deck that has
water infiltration. A "grid" of holes are drilled, then they are dried
out, after which one can inject epoxy with a syringe in each hole,
making sure that epoxy comes out of the surrounding holes before moving
to the next one.
It's what I plan to do on my foredeck, since it looks like a little
water got in there. I can do that since I will be repainting the nonskid
and thus covering the holes up.

Hope this helps,

Cedric
V-2941 "Lyra"
Charleston, SC
 
S

stevebirch2002

.
Nov 8, 2001
1,818
Hi Marie

I have seen the effects of the help rudder and belive me it actually
makes the boat faster, especially in tacking. Close steerage in crowded
marinas etc is so much easier. I have seen them driven like a car! Mine
doesnt have one but I do have teh kit to fit next time I take Southern
Comfort out of the water.

Cheers

Steve Birch (Technical)
 
S

SVFlyAway

.
Oct 31, 2019
303
Steve,

Do you sell the kit?

_____

From: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Steve Birch
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 12:49 PM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AlbinVega] extra rudder

Hi Marie

I have seen the effects of the help rudder and belive me it actually
makes the boat faster, especially in tacking. Close steerage in crowded
marinas etc is so much easier. I have seen them driven like a car! Mine
doesnt have one but I do have teh kit to fit next time I take Southern
Comfort out of the water.

Cheers

Steve Birch (Technical)
 
Z

zippydoda_captain

.
Oct 30, 2019
58
Steve,



Whats all this about an extra rudder? I may be going into a Marina next
year so if it makes reverse steering possible please send details
(including cost).



Regards,

Ray (Tortuga V1720)



Ray Wilton

Ship and Field Support Manager

School of Ocean Science

University of Wales (Bangor)

Menai Bridge

Angelsey

LL59 5AB



Tel 01248 382614

Fax 01248 716367
 
M

mnhdl

.
Oct 31, 2019
83
Thank you Steeve,

I was particularly concerned for the speed avoer 4kn. I was imagining that
the second rudder would slow down the boat with that extra surface under
water.

Any other comments from other owners?

Marie
 
J

jvancraaikamp

.
Feb 18, 2011
38
Hello Marie,

My name is Jan van Craaikamp, I own a vega nr 973. Due to the narrow
waters in Holland and a lot of manoeuvring in the ports, I dicided a
couple of years ago to mount a transom rudder on my vega.
The transom rudder is now my main rudder. It steers better than the
old one under motor operation, because the propellor does thrust the
water against the rudderblade. So you don't need boatspeed to steer
the boat. The reverse steering is still poor. But if you give a
little forward thrust you can push the boat in any direction you
want. The rudder has no negative effect on the boatspeed.
The main rudder has been locked with excentrical cilinders connected
via a rod tied to the ruddershaft. If something goes wrong with the
transom rudder, it takes 5 minutes to mount the original helm on the
ruddershaft.
If you have a look on the following link you'll find pictures to
backup this story. I'm sorry but all the writing is in Dutch. If you
click on the name Arend Schram you will be redirected to another
website that contains pictures from the ruddersystem that was
mentioned in Steve's Email.
43/Default.aspx

If you like more information, don't hesitate to ask.
Kind regards Jan van Craaikamp V973
http://www.albinvega.eu
 
M

mnhdl

.
Oct 31, 2019
83
Hi Jan,

Thank you for your answer. My I ask why you've choose a transom rudder
instead of Arend's kit? Any advantages, disadvantages between the two
solutions?

Thank you again.

Marie
 
J

jvancraaikamp

.
Feb 18, 2011
38
Hi Marie,

I did mount the rudder when the boat was in the water during the
season. All the holes are above the waterline.
If you mount the system from Arend the boat has to be on the dry.
The original helm is used with two quadrants mounted on the
ruddershaft. The extra blade is controlled by two stainless wires
that role over two blocks, as you can see on the pictures.
I think that the kit from Arend does do a better job than the
transom rudder that I use because the blade is closer to the
proppelor. But with the transom rudder I did gain a lot of space in
the boat since I could remove the original helm. I had my dog caught
up between the helm and the seat a couple of times during tacking.
When I sail with my family, they always want to have the best seat
in the house so the always try to sit in front of me. Since there is
more room, it is not a problem anymore.
Another suggestion for you would be to install a windvane steering
module. You can use the extra rudderblade to park your vega in the
port. And you can use it as a auto steer unit while sailing. The
steering capabilities of the vega under sail, was never a problem.
The only problem was when I was waiting for a bridge to open or
manoeuvring in locks and ports, when you had to deal with the wind
en no boatspeed. With my vega I had to gain boatspeed to get control
over the boat. Most of the time there was not room enough.
After one experience of drifting sideways into the Oranjesluizen
with windforce 5 bft in my back, was the limit. These are the locks
between the IJsselmeer and Amsterdam, I decided that I definitely
needed an extra rudder. Before I owned the vega I sailed with a
Cobra 750 that you could manoeuvre on an inch. Now with the vega
everybody was looking at me and were wondering if this was the first
time the I ever steered a boat. The only thing that I could do in
the Lock was to back up to the wall and wait untill the wind had
blown the nose of the ship in the direction of the lock.
Especialy when you do solo sailing with nobody onboard to keep the
boat away from the landing stage, it is a pleasure if you can
controle the boat at a very low speed.
So I think you can use both the macanism from Arend or the transom
rudder.
Regards Jan.
 
J

jvancraaikamp

.
Feb 18, 2011
38
Hello All

I noticed that if a link is too long it will be corrupted by Yahoo
If you start on my website first you go to
Then you go to "De Albin Vega"
from the pulldown menu you choose "Mijn albin Vega"
And than go to "Aanhangroer" (=Transomrudder)
If you would like to see a drawing sellect
"Montagetekening"
Take a look at the videos and fot's while you're there, maybey you
see something that you like.

Regards Jan
 
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