Rudder Crack

[SailAway1]

Hi everyone! I'm fairly new to sailing and I just purchased a 1980 Catalina 22 swing keel . I can't wait till spring!! Once I got it home, I noticed a rather ugly crack in the rudder (picture attached). Yeah, I know, how could I not have seen this before I bought it? Well, as you can see from all the gunk on the rudder, the boat was in the water and I just didn't look well enough . Anyway, does this look like it can be repaired or am I looking at spending $500 for a new one? Or - is there someone out there that might have a used one in good condition that they would be willing to part with?
Greg

 

[Grasshopp]

Welcome to boat ownership. Take it home and fix it!!!! Go to westmarine and get their book on fiberglass and learn something new. It will not be that hard and this is really a small project well with in the beginner range. Make sure you read directions carefully, and take your time.

Cheers

 

[Sylvan]

Fix Crack

The boat photo looks like a good one. If the rudder is not bent in its vertical plane, I suspect you can fix it by gouoging out the crack, some sanding and filling with epoxy and wrapping the blade with a coat or two of fiberglass. Or you might even use a couple of plates of stainless steel to give it structural strength. If you plan on racing, you probably don't want to increase the blade thickness in which case you probably need a new one, perhaps one of the blades that don't pivot. And I sure wouldn't use it like it is since if it breaks it will likely be in a strong wind when you really don't want to lose control. RK

 

[jfrench]

I'll wager that the the wood core is rotted or at least broken judging by the size of that crack and the bend in the rudder. You can certainly fix almost anything fiberglass, but you've got an easy forty hours messing with that one, probably twice that by the time you figure your planning time and trips to round up parts and materials. It could be a satisfying winter project and if you do it you'll never fear fiberglass repairs again, but it's not just a weekend project.

 

[watercolors II]

Note to jfrench

Under another topic you asked were I lived in central PA? Curwensville and across the road from a dfrench!

Now lets get back to OdayFun's problem.

Remove the glassed part of the rudder from the metal part. The round disks on each side of the top metal part has a 3/8 inch bolt through it. You may have to drive the bolt out with a hammer because after about 2 years this bolt will corrode itself tight, in the future keep this bolt and disks clean and waxed so it will work as intended and be removable for cleaning.

With just the fiber glassed part of the rudder add slight pressure to the center of it, does it feel or look weak in the area of the crack, If not then repair crack. If it is weak, then let us know and we will tell you the next step.

 

[Ken]

plywood core

As French said there's no doubt this vintage rudder has a plywood core. I'd bet the plywood core in the rudder is wet through and through.

A friend used a dremel tool to cut around the edge of a fixed rudder blade he broke, removed the 1/4" plywood (his was wet through and through, the core fell out once he finished splitting into two pieces) You can hang the blade up, drill a small in the bottom watch to see if any water drips out.

Once you've cut the new plywood (here you'll want to use marine grade plywood) use epoxy to put the two halves back together.

I've no doubt you too can do this project . As Grasshopp says; time to buy the fiberglass book, local book store might have a copy too. Once again as French says this is a good winter project and you'll have a fine rudder when finished.

Should you decide to do this, once you put it back together (or should you decide to buy the rudder blade, Oh yeah you can buy just the blade) anyway, over drill the bottom pindle holes fill them with epoxy then re-drill, you'll not have this problem again.

 

[SailAway1]

Wow, this is great! I'm loving all the responses. It seems that the general consensus is to go ahead and repair it - which is what I was hoping for. The picture is a little deceiving because the rudder is only very slightly bowed at the crack. When I push on it from the other side, there is very little flex. When I push on it from the crack side, it goes back to perfectly flat. Even though I have never done fiberglass repair, I thoroughly enjoy working on projects like this. I will take Grasshopp's advice, buy the book, learn as much as I can, and take my time to do it right. It will be a long winter and investing 80+ hours on a project like this is well worth it.
Greg

 

[Bilbo]

Hmmm...It may be repairable.
One of the issues that I'd investigate is whether or not there are more cracks in other places. Since this rudder seems to be left in the water, that would cause the cracks as the wood swells. Especially if there is wet wood and thre ruder is left outside during a cold winter.
There is also another situation to check over. Where the rudder goes up into the aluminum casing, The rudder has a metal rivet that is supposed to fit into a hole inside of the side plate of the casing when the rudder is down. As you can see in the included link, sometimes the rivet can wear a groove in the one side plate. This can probably be fixed or some replace the rivet with a "shear pin" of wood. but if this is all good and the width of the rudder up in there or this relationship is changed, the rudder may then not stay down well. Here is a web page with some rudder info:
http://catalina22fleet20.home.comcast.net/~catalina22fleet20/techtips/rudder.htm
Also, When reassembling the metal casing, I'd suggest using some loc-tite on the screws. Otherwise they seem to disappear occasionally.

 

[OldCat]

Also, When reassembling the metal casing, I'd suggest using some loc-tite on the screws. Otherwise they seem to disappear occasionally.

FWIW - mine have stainless steel nuts with nylon locking inserts. I think that these are called nylock or something similar. I have never have one of these come loose - they stay on even when not tight against the bearing surface - as for a rudder that must still tilt up.

OC

 

[Bilbo]

FWIW - mine have stainless steel nuts with nylon locking inserts. I think that these are called nylock or something similar. I have never have one of these come loose - they stay on even when not tight against the bearing surface - as for a rudder that must still tilt up.
OC

I'm not thinking that this isn't standard OC but it would be a good idea if possible.
The screws that I'm suggesting that should have loc-tite are the 12 screws that hold the side plates onto the casting. These are SS screws that are fastened directly through the plates into threaded holes in the cast aluminum.

 

[SailAway1]

After cleaning off some of the algae, I found another place where it was gouged - possibly to the core. It's on the trailing edge so it's probably not from running into something. I guess it's possible that a prop blade could have hit it somehow. It was filled in with epoxy but even that has begun to come loose. Given the fact that there is a huge crack at the top and a big gouge at the bottom, I would bet that the core is saturated and/or rotted. It looks like I'll be getting out the dremel tool and splitting it into 2 pieces to replace the core like Ken suggested. After all, what do I have to lose?

 

[Aldo]

Greg: Please take a look at your photo that I marked-up. Note that I'm pointing to what appears to me to be two shear pins. We use shear pins on our C-22s, but we pin the rudders with the blade rotated to the full down position, the way that I have the white arrow pointing. The rudder must be all the way down when sailing, or tremendous stress will be put on it and either the tiller or rudder could crack. Oh your rudder is cracked. (My shear pins are plastic around 1/8 inch in diameter. My son uses 1/4 inch wooden dowel shear pins on his C-22. This is related to where you drill the holes for the pins.) In your photo, your rudder isn't rotated all the way down.

I work on my boat plenty, all year round, and I recommend that you buy a replacement blade for your rudder. This is no place for a beginner to learn about working with fiberglass in my opinion. I'm sure that there are other areas of the boat that could use a little cosmetic fiberglass touching up. But the rudder is a part of your boat that you must have absolute confidence in. You sure don't want to be out with the boat heeling with the rub rail in the water and be worrying whether or not the rudder blade that you made is strong enough. These boats are really fun and one of the things that makes them so much fun is how strong they are. I don't recommend that you make your own rudder.

Let me also mention that I have a friend who bought a non Catalina replacement rudder assembly, and it wasn't a good experience for her. She had to have many things modified, and it just wasn't good. I suppose that the company that made her replacement rudder has probably figured it out by now, but I know it was a nightmare for her.

Aldo

 

[Bilbo]

I guess it's possible that a prop blade could have hit it somehow. It was filled in with epoxy but even that has begun to come loose.

It is very easy for a prop blade to hit the rudder. If the rudder is part way up and you are motoring in reverse, it's going to happen. Especially if the reversed motor is turned with the blade towards the rudder. If the epoxy filler is the putty type, then you'd be almost guaranteed that it will have leaked in water into the core.

Aldo is completely correct in the need for a strong rudder. I can't see the photo for certain as to whether or not this rudder has shear pins. Not all do. Some still use the O/E rivet. It does look as if it is kicked up a bit in the photo but that because of the lack of algae or dirt, this probably happened more recently.

 

[shipwreck66]

The great thing about old C22s, if it hasn't broken yet, it's overdue. Don't fret, I rammed mine into a concrete bridge piling and it's still sailing.

 

[OldCat]

I'm not thinking that this isn't standard OC but it would be a good idea if possible.
The screws that I'm suggesting that should have loc-tite are the 12 screws that hold the side plates onto the casting. These are SS screws that are fastened directly through the plates into threaded holes in the cast aluminum.

Oh yeah - I don't have the kick up - so I have fewer and different screws Still, I like the nyloks where they can be used.

In threaded alum, loctite sounds like a good idea. I'd get the kind that CAN be removed - since you never know when the need for boat maintenance will arrive:neutral:.

OC

 

[OldCat]

Or - is there someone out there that might have a used one in good condition that they would be willing to part with?
Greg

I'd check around (a lot) for the used part option - somewhere there is a C22 in a boneyard with a decent rudder on it. If you usually keep your boat in a slip or on a mooring, then you don't even need the kickup rudder. If you find a fixed rudder in good shape, just launch the boat & put the rudder on at the launching dock.

Search Craig's list over a wide area with a tool like this one: http://www.crazedlist.org/index.cgi - search everywhere else as well.

OC

 

[SailAway1]

I'm beginning to think that this rudder has reached its end of life. Whoever patched it with epoxy did a horrible job. There is a large chunk of fiberglass and wood core missing under the epoxy. I hung it up like Ken suggested and water is dripping from it from around the epoxy "patch".
Aldo pointed out that the pins protruding from the housing may be shear pins. I think they are the rivets. When I rotate the rudder, there are 2 dimples in the rudder that line up with the pins. The pins protrude into the dimples when in the down position and help keep it there when the housing is tightened. The rudder also has the same grooves that are in the rudder info website pictures.
Thanks OC for the link to the Craig's list search engine. I think I will need to stick with a kick-up rudder because I will be keeping the boat on a trailer with its mast up as there are no slips at my association. Catalina Direct sells just the rudder for $480 so if I don't find one on Craig's list for less, and my attempt at major surgery to fix this one is unsuccessful, then I'll just buy the new one in the spring.
Greg

 

[paphman]

Greg, the last thing you need is a rudder failure out on the lake. We have two other C-22 at the marina, and last year one of them had a rudder break. We have a 1984, and his was alittle older than ours. He put no money into the boat, and it looked it. He was lucky that no one was hurt. We replaced ours when we purchased the boat six seasons ago, and it was one of the best things we did that first year. This is what happens when we purchase older boats. They all need upgrades, and a bad rudder would be at the top of anyones list. I don't know if your wife sails with you, but if she does, and you break the rudder, she may not go again. I would go for the new rudder.

Dale

 

[Bilbo]

........ I don't know if your wife sails with you, but if she does, and you break the rudder, she may not go again. I would go for the new rudder.
Dale

I second this. If the rudder breaks, it is most likely going to happen when you'd least want it. Either A) from dragging the bottom or B) when under heavy stress like when the winds are up. If the latter is the situation, what will happen to the disposition of the boat in high winds under sail would quickly become exciting in a dangerous way.

 

[SailAway1]

Even though I would like the least expensive solution possible, I would prefer the have piece of mind knowing that the rudder will not fail. Unless I find a good used rudder before April, then I'll buy a new one from Catalina Direct. Thanks to everyone for your advice.
Greg