I had a complete rudder failure recently in a Hunter 456. The seas were rough and we were running before the wind in about 25 knots of wind. The rudder broke flush with the bottom of the boat. How many other owners out there, have had rudder problems with Hunter or other types of sailboats?
- Status
The rudder post cracked
The rudder post fiberglass enclosure on my 28.5 cracked where it joined the hull and needed to be repaired by Hunter after the 1st season. The top bearing on the rudder was screwed into a plywood plate with three out of four wood screws which probably loosened over time creating wear in the nylon lower bushing, so after about 12 years after the 1st repair I had to rebuild the lower bearing surface with West System epoxy impregnated with graphite and reinforce the plywood upper bearing support as well. Meanwhile the foam rudder itself delaminated at it's trailing edge and had water infiltration requiring repairs every few years. I'd definately give Hunter a black mark on their rudder design and installation on the 28.5's. Fortunately the boat sails incredibly well for it's size.
The rudder post fiberglass enclosure on my 28.5 cracked where it joined the hull and needed to be repaired by Hunter after the 1st season. The top bearing on the rudder was screwed into a plywood plate with three out of four wood screws which probably loosened over time creating wear in the nylon lower bushing, so after about 12 years after the 1st repair I had to rebuild the lower bearing surface with West System epoxy impregnated with graphite and reinforce the plywood upper bearing support as well. Meanwhile the foam rudder itself delaminated at it's trailing edge and had water infiltration requiring repairs every few years. I'd definately give Hunter a black mark on their rudder design and installation on the 28.5's. Fortunately the boat sails incredibly well for it's size.
Mike, any more information that you
could provide about your rudder issue would be very informative. Information on the year of your 456 and Hull ID would be especially useful to me. How long ago did this occur and what has been Hunter's response to your situation? Regards, -Jim- s/v Forever
could provide about your rudder issue would be very informative. Information on the year of your 456 and Hull ID would be especially useful to me. How long ago did this occur and what has been Hunter's response to your situation? Regards, -Jim- s/v Forever
Daryl, Daryl, Daryl
Daryl, are you such a glutton for punishment that you find that you must hang around in a forum that discusses boats that you appear to hate so much? I have yet to ever read a positive word from you regarding Hunter sailboats, yet you are here time and time again to vent your frustration, disgust, and general disdain towards the brand? Now don't get me wrong, I don't presume that the boats are perfect and that a constructive critique and discussion of various shortcomings is of value to the readers here, especially those that like their boats despite any problems they may have encountered. They want to enjoy those aspects of their boats that work for them, and find viable solutions to problems that they may face. But at the core, they like their boats. Daryl, move on, take your negativity elsewhere, sail more, whine less, enjoy life. There is great merit in the old adage, "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all." Peace.
Daryl, are you such a glutton for punishment that you find that you must hang around in a forum that discusses boats that you appear to hate so much? I have yet to ever read a positive word from you regarding Hunter sailboats, yet you are here time and time again to vent your frustration, disgust, and general disdain towards the brand? Now don't get me wrong, I don't presume that the boats are perfect and that a constructive critique and discussion of various shortcomings is of value to the readers here, especially those that like their boats despite any problems they may have encountered. They want to enjoy those aspects of their boats that work for them, and find viable solutions to problems that they may face. But at the core, they like their boats. Daryl, move on, take your negativity elsewhere, sail more, whine less, enjoy life. There is great merit in the old adage, "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all." Peace.
Drew?
Sorry I'm not a member of your cult. I have and share an opinion that is different than yours. My post states facts based on experience and extensive retrofit (and ownership) of a Hunter for ten years. Comments like yours don't improve the image of Hunter Owners. Perhaps you need to create a new web site (or religion) called Hunterlovers.com
Sorry I'm not a member of your cult. I have and share an opinion that is different than yours. My post states facts based on experience and extensive retrofit (and ownership) of a Hunter for ten years. Comments like yours don't improve the image of Hunter Owners. Perhaps you need to create a new web site (or religion) called Hunterlovers.com
Daryl, you do realize that you are the ONLY ONE
HERE, that flames any boat, when opportunity presents itself, right? Most of us have gotten to the point of just ignoring you. But don't get me wrong. I've created a game. I question posts now; How would Daryl slam this boat? Trouble is, it's real boring.
HERE, that flames any boat, when opportunity presents itself, right? Most of us have gotten to the point of just ignoring you. But don't get me wrong. I've created a game. I question posts now; How would Daryl slam this boat? Trouble is, it's real boring.
But...
...Hunter doesn't make the rudders. They are made by a another party (whom I won't identify) elsewhere in the state. Take it up with them.
...Hunter doesn't make the rudders. They are made by a another party (whom I won't identify) elsewhere in the state. Take it up with them.
Rebuttal to Daryl
>Sorry I'm not a member of your cult. Hmm, I haven't had any kool-aid lately. >I have and share an opinion that is different than yours. My post states facts based on experience and extensive retrofit (and ownership) of a Hunter for ten years. Wait, first it's opinion, and then it is fact. That's my point, your 'facts' are biased by your opinion. >Comments like yours don't improve the image of Hunter Owners. My comment was MY comment, and no where did I represent myself as speaking for all Hunter onwers. That's even assuming I was a Hunter owner. I don't assume any boat is perfect, but I try to keep my comments positive and constructive, as opposed to those that choose to post otherwise. I don't see anything negative about that. >Perhaps you need to create a new web site (or religion) called Hunterlovers.com I already have a religion, thank you. And as I think Fred has mentioned before, that's a topic that is better kept away from. Have a wonderful day. ps - I apologize for sidetracking this thread, and will refrain from further comments.
>Sorry I'm not a member of your cult. Hmm, I haven't had any kool-aid lately. >I have and share an opinion that is different than yours. My post states facts based on experience and extensive retrofit (and ownership) of a Hunter for ten years. Wait, first it's opinion, and then it is fact. That's my point, your 'facts' are biased by your opinion. >Comments like yours don't improve the image of Hunter Owners. My comment was MY comment, and no where did I represent myself as speaking for all Hunter onwers. That's even assuming I was a Hunter owner. I don't assume any boat is perfect, but I try to keep my comments positive and constructive, as opposed to those that choose to post otherwise. I don't see anything negative about that. >Perhaps you need to create a new web site (or religion) called Hunterlovers.com I already have a religion, thank you. And as I think Fred has mentioned before, that's a topic that is better kept away from. Have a wonderful day. ps - I apologize for sidetracking this thread, and will refrain from further comments.
Some never learn.
These are all correct observation about Mr. USA. He continues to degrade with much conjecture. FYI, rudders can/will break on any boat given the right conditions. If you sail in some of the longer races, it is mandatory that a spare rudder is part of your mandatory equipment (just like the life raft). Mike, I would suggest that you contact Hunter about this problem and get their feed back. It is not a common problem that we have heard on this website, and I cannot remember a single incident on a 46.
These are all correct observation about Mr. USA. He continues to degrade with much conjecture. FYI, rudders can/will break on any boat given the right conditions. If you sail in some of the longer races, it is mandatory that a spare rudder is part of your mandatory equipment (just like the life raft). Mike, I would suggest that you contact Hunter about this problem and get their feed back. It is not a common problem that we have heard on this website, and I cannot remember a single incident on a 46.
I love the H456
Let me say that in spite of my experience with the broken rudder, I still love the boat. The H456 sails exceptionally well in all kinds of weather and is also generally well constructed and fitted out. Loss of a rudder must be rare. Our new rudder's construction was carefully supervised at Hunter's subcontractors and all is now back to normal. Through this post, I want to find out if anyone else has experienced this kind of problem. Additional thoughts; I think we will now carry a jury rudder in future. A spare Hunter rudder is not practical for cruising. A large drogue sea-anchor is also a neccessity to stabilise the boat. The loss of rudder occoured in the dark on an overnight passage. When the rudder detached, it drifted off into the night, while we were getting the boat under control. Thus we lost the rudder blade and were unable to examine it. We are now thinking of having wire tie fitted so that if the blade detaches in the future we will be able to recover it.
Let me say that in spite of my experience with the broken rudder, I still love the boat. The H456 sails exceptionally well in all kinds of weather and is also generally well constructed and fitted out. Loss of a rudder must be rare. Our new rudder's construction was carefully supervised at Hunter's subcontractors and all is now back to normal. Through this post, I want to find out if anyone else has experienced this kind of problem. Additional thoughts; I think we will now carry a jury rudder in future. A spare Hunter rudder is not practical for cruising. A large drogue sea-anchor is also a neccessity to stabilise the boat. The loss of rudder occoured in the dark on an overnight passage. When the rudder detached, it drifted off into the night, while we were getting the boat under control. Thus we lost the rudder blade and were unable to examine it. We are now thinking of having wire tie fitted so that if the blade detaches in the future we will be able to recover it.
FOSS FOAM MAKES THE RUDDERS
Foss Foam Products of Florida, Inc. 7060 Highway 41 North, Williston, FL 32696
Foss Foam Products of Florida, Inc. 7060 Highway 41 North, Williston, FL 32696
Foss Foam ? Why?
So I don't understand the point of having their address. Does anyone want ANOTHER Foss rudder? If I can remember the original instructions in the Owner's information which came with the boat advises you to paint the rudder white because a dark color may absorb more heat and create a problem. Maybe we should only use this product at night or never take it out of the water for winter storage? The rudder's outer shell seam, particularly on the trailing edge seems to have a tendency to split or separate and allow water inside the shell and into the foam. At that point it becomes a never ending maintenance issue. Does anyone know who makes (made) the rudders for C&C, Tartan, or Saber?
So I don't understand the point of having their address. Does anyone want ANOTHER Foss rudder? If I can remember the original instructions in the Owner's information which came with the boat advises you to paint the rudder white because a dark color may absorb more heat and create a problem. Maybe we should only use this product at night or never take it out of the water for winter storage? The rudder's outer shell seam, particularly on the trailing edge seems to have a tendency to split or separate and allow water inside the shell and into the foam. At that point it becomes a never ending maintenance issue. Does anyone know who makes (made) the rudders for C&C, Tartan, or Saber?
Be careful. . .
about flaming a company like Foss Foam. They absolutely do NOT make all of the Hunter rudders. When on the plant tour I saw several different size rudders that were made at the Hunter plant. This is not supposition, the engineer told us as much. And there are other suppliers. Mike, you lost the rudder and post below the boat. But what could you tell from what was left? And was your rudder a Foss Foam? An aside: my 1979 Foss Foam rudder has been through some awful weather. It is still attached.
about flaming a company like Foss Foam. They absolutely do NOT make all of the Hunter rudders. When on the plant tour I saw several different size rudders that were made at the Hunter plant. This is not supposition, the engineer told us as much. And there are other suppliers. Mike, you lost the rudder and post below the boat. But what could you tell from what was left? And was your rudder a Foss Foam? An aside: my 1979 Foss Foam rudder has been through some awful weather. It is still attached.
Foss
Foss made rudder for Pearson (& others) and there is a Foss on the west coat that did the Ericson rudders. My observation is the west coast rudders were better made and cost less. I had quality issues with my first h34 rudder attributed to using an "old mold". My second rudder was packed poorly and damaged in transit by FEDEX. It wasn't until after my second rudder failed that I found out how they are constructed inside. My emergency tiller would not fit in the new one due to sloppy welding. If I had it to do over I would make the stainless frame more robust. I think Al Walker at Foss would do that for a price. Foss didn't design my rudder and shouldn't be responsible for failures of this nature. They were willing to replace units that failed due to mfg. defects in material or workmanship. I was able to get a partial refund (under $100) to help fix my first new one. It was apparent they had little of no quality control back in the mid 90's.
Foss made rudder for Pearson (& others) and there is a Foss on the west coat that did the Ericson rudders. My observation is the west coast rudders were better made and cost less. I had quality issues with my first h34 rudder attributed to using an "old mold". My second rudder was packed poorly and damaged in transit by FEDEX. It wasn't until after my second rudder failed that I found out how they are constructed inside. My emergency tiller would not fit in the new one due to sloppy welding. If I had it to do over I would make the stainless frame more robust. I think Al Walker at Foss would do that for a price. Foss didn't design my rudder and shouldn't be responsible for failures of this nature. They were willing to replace units that failed due to mfg. defects in material or workmanship. I was able to get a partial refund (under $100) to help fix my first new one. It was apparent they had little of no quality control back in the mid 90's.
Rudder Paint
I'm preparing my 1993 H28 for an epoxy barrier coat. I've completely sanded down the hull and rudder and am ready to apply Interlux 2000 followed by VC17. I've been told not to use dark colored paint on the rudder which rules out VC. Checking the Foss website I have confirmed this. They say to paint the rudder white but they don't offer any suggestions on what product to use. In the past I used white Trilux on the rudder but apparently this is no longer available in The US. I'm considering Micron 33 but it doesn't look like it is recommended for fiberglass. I've e-mailed Interlux and hope to hear from them soon. Can anyone offer suggestions/advice? Take care . . . . Rick G. S/V Deja Vu
I'm preparing my 1993 H28 for an epoxy barrier coat. I've completely sanded down the hull and rudder and am ready to apply Interlux 2000 followed by VC17. I've been told not to use dark colored paint on the rudder which rules out VC. Checking the Foss website I have confirmed this. They say to paint the rudder white but they don't offer any suggestions on what product to use. In the past I used white Trilux on the rudder but apparently this is no longer available in The US. I'm considering Micron 33 but it doesn't look like it is recommended for fiberglass. I've e-mailed Interlux and hope to hear from them soon. Can anyone offer suggestions/advice? Take care . . . . Rick G. S/V Deja Vu
What a terrifying topic
This topic appears to come up quite a bit on this forum. It's a bit scary to think of losing a rudder while underway for this relatively green sailor. That said, what does one do when the rudder breaks underway? Do you lose all control over the direction of the boat or is there some other way to steer? I have a 1985 H31, which apparently suffers from an occasional rudder break. I'd love to know what to do if this happened to me in the shipping lanes.
This topic appears to come up quite a bit on this forum. It's a bit scary to think of losing a rudder while underway for this relatively green sailor. That said, what does one do when the rudder breaks underway? Do you lose all control over the direction of the boat or is there some other way to steer? I have a 1985 H31, which apparently suffers from an occasional rudder break. I'd love to know what to do if this happened to me in the shipping lanes.
- Status