Rubrail removal

Joe11688 · Apr 4, 2012

Chris Bogle said:
Not that I am planning to replace the Rubrail this time around although it is damaged in spots but my question is if the rail should be caulked (sealed) on the underside. Previous owner has done a lousy job of daubing silicone on the underside of the rail but there are spots where the water leaks through and makes dirty streaks down the side of the boat. I would like to remove the caulking altogether so the water that enters through the top or rubber insert can pass through freely. Any thoughts?

Do you have an Aluminum rub rail with a rubber insert? Are you getting leaks inside the cabin coming from the rub rail?

Joe11688 · Apr 4, 2012

Chris Bogle said:
Edit: the Rubrail is not aluminum, it's made of a resin material with a rubber insert. Small pieces that have broken off have been repaired somewhat with fiberglass resin.

Your gunwale must be Vinyl. You're going to have to use a silicone based caulking on it. Boat manufacturers use Dow Corning 795 caulking on plastics and vinlyl but there could be other types of silicone based caulking you could use. You want a caulking that won't harm the plastic but you want something that will stick.
When I did my boat, I did one side at a time. The rubber is continuous and goes all the way around the boat, but the gunwale moldings are pieced together. I just pulled the rubber out about as far as a break in the molding near the bow and took the moldings off, marking all the screw holes. There may be more holes in the moldings than there are screws and I wanted to make sure that all the screws went back in the same holes.
I cleaned the area and applied caulking to the screw heads and the screw holes in the seam. You don't need a bead of caulking all the way around the seam.
After I finished, I put the molding back on adding a small dab of caulking to each screw before inserting them. Then I put the rubber back in and removed the rubber from the other side of the boat starting at the stern and did the same thing to the other side. This way, the rubber goes right back in the same position as before because it's never completely removed from the boat.
I don't know, but it made more sense to me to do it this way than to remove all the moldings at once including the rubber.

If your boat is like mine, the rubber insert butt up together in the stern with two screws in washers holding it in place. Do one side of your boat at a time and you'll be surprised at how fast the job gets done. Don't forget to mark the screw holes with a pencil or magic marker.
Joe

Joe5893 · Apr 5, 2012

Hi Joe,

When you put the rubber part back into the molding did you use any special tools? Did you need to use dish soap or something like that as a lubricant to make it go in easier? I have a leak and I have narrowed it down to either the toe rail or the rub rail. Trying to figure out which one it is and the best way to reseal either or both.

Thanks,

Joe

OdayDave · Apr 5, 2012

Toledo Joe -

On my old 222, I pulled the plastic track off (just like in Joe's photo's) and then cleaned and rechalked the screw holes connecting the plastic track. This is a relatively easy job. Once the track was back in place, all you need to do to put the plastic back into the track is get it warm. Laying it in the sun on an 80+ degree day will do it, or barring that, getting a hair drier to warm it up manually. By the way, I would suggest you chalk from the outside, rather than the inside out. You don't want water getting trapped anywhere where it could do some damage.

While I haven't had to do any rubrail repairs on the new (1983) boat, it's just a matter of time. Chalk eventually wears down which creates the leaks.

Good luck,

Dave
s/v Lagniappe
O'Day 25

Joe11688 · Apr 5, 2012

Joe5893 said:
Hi Joe,

When you put the rubber part back into the molding did you use any special tools? Did you need to use dish soap or something like that as a lubricant to make it go in easier? I have a leak and I have narrowed it down to either the toe rail or the rub rail. Trying to figure out which one it is and the best way to reseal either or both.

Thanks,

Joe

Hi Joe,
I probably should have mentioned that and I just completely forgot. I used a dull straight screwdriver to get the rubber started after I removed the screw and washer that held it in place at the stern.
Once I got it started I was able to pull the rubber out by hand.

I took a 5 gallon plasterer's bucket and filled it with warm water and added some Dawn dish washing liquid and let the rubber soak in the pail.

After I got the Starboard side all finished and the molding reattached, I inserted the rubber back into the track. I found it easier to insert after I cleaned it with a rag and brush in some of the soapy water.
I laid the bottom edge of the rubber into the track and used my screwdriver to press and squeeze the top part of the rubber in as I went along until I had it all into the track again at the stern. Then I screwed it in place with the washer and proceeded to remove the other end of the rubber from the Port side of my boat and did the same thing to other side.

If you have a leak that you're not sure of Joe, and this same thing happened to me just last year, have someone run a garden hose over the area in question and get inside with a flashlight and do some feeling for moisture. You don't want to take the gunwale moldings off if you don't have to, but if they have never been off, this is a good time to caulk them anyway.
I thought my gunwale molding was leaking near the bow and as it turned out, it was that thin Teak toe rail at the bow that was leaking all the time.
Sometimes and particularly if your bow has glanced off something hard like a buoy, one of the screws holding the toe rail can pop up a little allowing water to seep in under the toe rail and through that screw hole into the cabin. I found this out after I caulked parts of my gunwale molding on that side last year. I was able to find the culprit by running the hose over the bow.
I had kept my sweatshirt up in that cubby hole in the bow all summer long and one day I reached for it and discovered that it was soaking wet from that toe rail leak. otherwise I would never have known I had a leak there. I thought it was coming from the gunwale molding, so I removed them and caulked under it. After I ran the hose over it again, I found out that the area was still leaking.
Later, I put my step ladder up near the bow and looked at the toe rail. I could actually see light under it. I grabbed it with my thumb and fore finger and was able to move it back and forth. This was a dead give away because that toe rail shouldn't move at all. Fortunately, I was able to remove the bung to get at the screw to remove it. Then I pried up the toe rail at that spot using a putty knife and a screw driver to keep it open. Then I took a Popsicle stick and shaved it thinner and added some 3-M 4200 under that area, plus a little 4200 to the wood screw and screwed it back in. I have some 3/8" Teak bungs. I cleaned the hole out and glued the bung in with Gorilla Glue. The grain of the bung needs to be going in the same direction as the toe rail grain.
Later, I cut the bung off just a little higher and sanded it down to the surface of the toe rail.
Lessons learned I guess. So I'm passing this on to you and hopefully you'll be able to stop a leak without removing a lot of stuff that don't need to be removed.
I have a hand rail that is starting to leak a little and I'm going to do the same thing to it if I can. 3-M 4200 will not only caulk the area and stop the leak, but it will also adhere the toe rail to the deck and that's what you want.
Good Luck with that Joe.
Joe

Joe11688 · Apr 5, 2012

OdayDave said:
Toledo Joe -

On my old 222, I pulled the plastic track off (just like in Joe's photo's) and then cleaned and rechalked the screw holes connecting the plastic track. This is a relatively easy job. Once the track was back in place, all you need to do to put the plastic back into the track is get it warm. Laying it in the sun on an 80+ degree day will do it, or barring that, getting a hair drier to warm it up manually. By the way, I would suggest you chalk from the outside, rather than the inside out. You don't want water getting trapped anywhere where it could do some damage.

While I haven't had to do any rubrail repairs on the new (1983) boat, it's just a matter of time. Chalk eventually wears down which creates the leaks.

Good luck,

Dave
s/v Lagniappe
O'Day 25

Ahoy, Dave!
I didn't know that your O'Day 222 had a vinyl gunwale molding. Mine is made of Aluminum. If Toledo Joe's boat has a vinyl molding, he will need to use a silicone based caulking like Dow Corning 795 or something else other than 3-M 4200.

The 3-M 4200 isn't as bad as the 5200 when it comes to trying to remove hardware that is adhered to this stuff but it can be a real bare.

A lot of times I'll use a blow torch to heat up a putty knife and try to work it slowly under the hardware that I'm trying to remove. A hair drier can also soften up the caulking and help to separate the hardware from the deck along with a couple of putty knives with heated blades.

I found out one important thing about preventing deck leaks a long time ago; never use cleaning solutions with acids that can eat out the caulking. Even household cleansers contain Oxalic Acid that can clean stains in fiberglass, but it will definitely eat out the caulking under gunwale moldings and toe rails. I don't think it's a good idea to use a power washer on your deck either. I just use soap and water and that's it. I've learned through my mistakes.

Today I replaced three Aluminum backup plates inside my cabin that I had used to hold my chain plate covers. What a stupid move that was years back. I should have made up some stainless steel plates and did the job right the first time. The Aluminum was so corroded with those stainless steel bolts attached to them, that there was white powder coming off them. I was able to get all the nuts off the bolts pretty easy, but the plates were literally glued in place with corrosion and I had to hammer and pry them off. Lessons learned: do not mix Aluminum with stainless steel. I should have known better back then but this is how we learn sometimes. The important thing is to never make the same mistake twice. As I look back though, changing those plates was a lot easier than having to cut 2" off the bottom of my mast and then come up with a solution for my stays to come right. Hopefully I've got that problem solved. I'll find out when I sail her next month.

Joe5893 · Apr 9, 2012

Thanks Dave and Joe. Your info is very helpful!

Toledo Joe

Joe11688 · Apr 9, 2012

Good luck Joe!

Rubrail removal

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