Rubber hose for prop shaft packing gland leaking, misaligned prop shaft?

[YankeeGirl]

Hello all! Long time listener first time caller,

I recently purchased a 1977 Pearson 10m (33ft) with an atomic 4 gas engine. While taking the boat out for a sail for it's first time we started taking on water. After getting back to the harbor and inspecting it, we found a substantial leak coming from the rubber hose connecting the packing gland on the prop shaft to the hull.

Let me know if there's any more information I can provide other than photos. Not sure if related but it's been having an issue while in gear. It revs up fine in neutral and sometimes reverse, but when I put it into idle it seems to not be able to rev up beyond idle speed. There's also been some smoke coming from the engine while running in forward, have not been able to locate where exactly that is coming from.

The main questions that I would love y'alls opinion and expertise on.
1. Do you think this is a matter of the rubber hose slipping off, or the prop shaft moving forward and getting misaligned? (I read that can sometimes happen if the prop is jammed with barnacles and other debris)

2.What are some temporary fixes you would recommend? Moving the rubber hose up the packing gland coupling? getting another rubber hose to clamp over it?

3. What does this look like for a long term repair? Is prop movement/ realignment is fixable in the water. Could this indicate more severe transmission/ prop shaft repairs?

4. Does this something that would require taking the boat out of the water to properly repair it? Or is it something that we could stop the leak and still sail it? (we have a 10hp outboard engine that we can power the boat with)

Thank you for your response's in advance!!

Here are some photos of the leak:

From a different angle:

 

[Davidasailor26]

There could be a few things going on here.

From the picture it looks to me like the engine could be out of alignment. The log hose doesn’t seem to be going in a straight line. The engine shouldn’t really move any substantial movement when you put the engine in forward, regardless of prop fouling. I wonder if the engine mounts are badly worn, or one or more of them is broken, allowing the engine to move and everything come out of alignment.

Even if the engine comes out of alignment the connection between the shaft log hose and the packing gland should stay together. The fact that they’ve loosened up enough suggests the hose could be worn, or the hose clamps could just be loose. Those hoses don’t last forever so it might be worth replacing anyway, especially if you don’t know if that’s been done in the life of the boat.

Lastly, the pictures might be deceiving but that packing gland looks rather pink. Pink is usually an indication of manganese bronze that’s lost its zink through corrosion, and becomes weak and brittle. If it really is pink it should be replaced too.

The most complete fix would probably be to have the boat hauled, inspect all the motor mounts, replace the hose and gland, launch the boat, and realign the engine. Whether a less complete fix could be good enough would take a closer inspection or a more skilled eye than I have.

 

[Jim Legere]

That looks bad in the pictures. The stuffing box looks like its almost out of the hose connecting it to the shaft log. If it lets go, the boat could sink. Get someone knowledgeable to look at it as soon as possible. It can't be properly diagnosed on an internet forum IMHO.

 

[dlochner]

Aloha,

I'm sorry but I don't have any good news for you.

2.What are some temporary fixes you would recommend? Moving the rubber hose up the packing gland coupling? getting another rubber hose to clamp over it?

No temporary fixes. Get the boat out of the water before it sinks. Yesterday would not be too soon.

3. What does this look like for a long term repair? Is prop movement/ realignment is fixable in the water. Could this indicate more severe transmission/ prop shaft repairs?

The stuffing box (aka packing gland), the metal part, shows signs of pinking. This is when the zinc in the bronze leaches out due to galvanic action. The metal becomes fragile and easily cracked.

4. Does this something that would require taking the boat out of the water to properly repair it? Or is it something that we could stop the leak and still sail it? (we have a 10hp outboard engine that we can power the boat with)

Yes, the boat needs to come out of the water. If the stuffing box comes out of the hose the boat will flood and sink in minutes. No bilge pump will be able to keep up with the flow.

The photo below shows an old but healthy stuffing box from a Sabre 30, probably about the same size as yours. First notice the color, looks like bronze with no pink or read tinged coloring. The hose clamps onto the right side between the two ridges. Looking at your photos, it appears that your hose has slid almost all the way off. There could be many reasons, loose hose clamps, engine alignment, metal erosion leading to diminished size and loose hose clamps, aging hose, engine vibration, etc.

This is a remove and replace job, there is no safe temporary fix or repair. Once the boat is out of the water, the shaft needs to be removed which may entail dropping the rudder. The hose and stuffing box needs to be replaced. The hose is a speciality hose designed to with stand the constant twisting from running the engine. While the shaft is out, replace the cutless bearing and replace the coupling with a split coupling. Check the shaft for wear and to see if it true. If the shaft is bronze it probably needs to be replaced because of galvanic corrosion (pinking).

Replacing all these parts will not solve the underlying galvanic issue. That is the result mixing different metals in saltwater and the resultant chemical reactions. The solution may be as simple adding or replacing sacrificial anodes (zincs) or modifying the electrical system on board. A story for another day. Meanwhile get the boat out of the water ASAP before it becomes an artificial reef.

 

[Davidasailor26]

The photo below shows an old but healthy stuffing box from a Sabre 30, probably about the same size as yours. First notice the color, looks like bronze with no pink or read tinged coloring. The hose clamps onto the right side between the two ridges. Looking at your photos, it appears that your hose has slid almost all the way off.

Comparing the total length of the stuffing box in Dave’s picture to the amount revealed above the hose in the original picture is very concerning. It really does look like the two are almost completely separated.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

Please get the boat out of the water ASAP as this does not look good.

As a comparison, this is what it should look like :

 

[dlochner]

View attachment 225529

Please get the boat out of the water ASAP as this does not look good.

And get towed, don't use the engine.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

And get towed, don't use the engine.

Most definitely !

 

[Jim Legere]

I wonder how @YankeeGirl fared? Hopefully made it to haul out and is getting the problem repaired. And that the lack of further posts is not because of something catastrophic...

And, while I'm here, a pet peeve of mine: why do new posters bother to sign up, ask questions and get answers or opinions from the experienced people on this forum, and then never come back to say 'thanks' or give a follow-up post?

Yeesh! Some people's kids...

 

[dlochner]

And, while I'm here, a pet peeve of mine: why do new posters bother to sign up, ask questions and get answers or opinions from the experienced people on this forum, and then never come back to say 'thanks' or give a follow-up post?

Yeesh! Some people's kids...

I think there are 3 main reasons for this.

New posters with a big problem often post on multiple sites and simply lose track of what they posted where.

Some posters have big dreams and when they ask questions they are hit with a sad reality. It's painful and who thanks someone for killing a dream? YankeeGirl and the kid a few weeks ago with the sunken boat are good examples.

Finally, some folks are just short on social skills and hey, this is the internet no need to be polite.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

Some posters have big dreams and when they ask questions they are hit with a sad reality. It's painful and who thanks someone for killing a dream? YankeeGirl and the kid a few weeks ago with the sunken boat are good examples.

In this situation, I'm sure it's a case of being shown how much he's actually in now and where he will be headed until he lays out some significant money and/or labour. I hope he didn't go elsewhere looking for a more appealing answer. Feel sorry for the guy.

this is the internet no need to be polite.

That's quite right, so phhhhhhhtttttt to you, sir .

 

[YankeeGirl]

Hey sorry for the late response I've been too busy out sailing. Thanks for the input. I did not end up hauling the boat out. I ended up going underneath the boat with some ducting seal and throwing that in the stern tube to slow the bleeding. I then cut off the hose clamps and was able to slide the packing gland back into place and install new hose clamps. This stopped the leak entirely. Since then I have replaced the main sail and been sailing all around Oahu. I am currently just using the 9.9 honda outboard motor I installed.

I believe it initially happened due to the lack of maintenance the prop shaft packing gland system has seen. I am planning on replacing the current packing gland with either a dripless system or a new packing gland system. Yes I plan on doing this with the boat in the water. I appreciate the conservative nature of the previous responses. But with the proper attitude you can in fact do all of this maintenance in water.

Cost would have been over $3000 to get hauled out the week it happened, (it's expensive here in Hawaii). I paid $10 for some new hose clamps.

 

[Davidasailor26]

Congratulations on a resourceful, albeit short term, fix. That was a clever way of addressing the immediate problem. Having said that I think you’re selling the experience of those who tried to help you way short. Sailors in general, and this forum in particular, are not known for their attitude of throwing money around to have someone else fix their problems. All of the advice above was based on experience not just fixing problems but seeing what can go wrong if they’re not fixed promptly and correctly. If the root cause and limitations of your problems were a failed hose clamp you’d be off the hook, and you’d have demonstrated a successful though high risk alternative way to fix the problem. You’re in a geographic location where trying that fix made sense, both because of the economics of a haul out and your water conditions. Many of the posters here are in locations where the water is too cold and/or murky to reliably put a patch underwater, and haul out cost is measured in hundreds of dollars rather than thousands. Your reply adds to the group’s experience by suggesting such an alternative is possible in some situations.

Now, you still haven’t fixed the problem completely. You still have a shaft log of unknown age and a stuffing box that looks corroded to the point of pinking. Both of those could still fail at any time and need replacement. To replace those you’ll need to get the prop shaft off the coupling, which means at a minimum sliding it back and in the worst case cutting and replacing it. Doing that with the same duct seal approach will be more challenging. I wish you the best of luck getting everything fixed and staying out sailing, but I don’t think ignoring help is the best way to do that.

 

[Dave]

@Davidasailor26's post seems a little out of place, let me add some context.

Early this morning, @YankeeGirl posted an update to his initial problem and how he effected a fix while the boat was in the water. It was a creative solution and a temporary solution as David suggests.

While David was writing, I was evaluating the content of two other posts by @YankeeGirl' and deleting them. His first post describing his solution was certainly appreciated and appropriate. His additional posts were an unnecessary and arrogant criticism of the members who had offered support for his problem. It ended with some inappropriate language. YG's attitude could be written off as simply youthful arrogance and tolerated had it not been for the foul language, thus the post was deleted.

David and I conferred on his post and we decided to leave it up with this explainer. His post is thoughtful and instructive. I thought other members might find it worthwhile reading, so it stands.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

His additional posts were an unnecessary and arrogant criticism of the members who had offered support for his problem. It ended with some inappropriate language.

The things that go on when one is asleep !

As @Davidasailor26 said, congrats on a brilliant solution. With a $3K haul out bill facing you, I like your idea of plugging off the stern tube while dealing with the problem.

I'd take a very close look at what you have by first checking the gland housing for zinc corrosion. Highly unlikely you have a brass stuffing box but check a small portion with a fine wire brush or emery cloth to ensure it comes up with a bright yellow surface as bronze will. If it's good, keep it. Replacing the existing gland with something else while in the water could be the bugger of all creation.

The hose also looks to be in good shape from over here. If the shaft is SS, maybe recently replaced ?, the wear surface can be polished in place.

I think you're "somewhat inappropriate" responses can be overlooked and completely forgotten if you'll see this situation from our side. Over the years, we've see more half baked, suicidal ideas come along from people who shouldn't even be on the water let alone given a day pass to get out of whatever institution they're currently housed. With your solutions to temporarily dealing with this problem, you have clearly shown you are NOT one of those people and for that, I apologize for myself.

You've got the perfect environment for working on this. Please keep us posted to discuss your work as it progresses. I'm sure you can share some ideas with us and who knows, we may be able to offer you a few as well.

Don't be a stranger.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

Is prop movement/ realignment is fixable in the water.

Check the health of your cutlass bearing by trying to shake it from side to side in the bearing There should be very little movement between the shaft and the bearing. Wrap yourself around the shaft while doing this.

A prop shaft alignment should always be done in the water to make sure the hull is in a relaxed position.

For you next posting, maybe keep it to the one pointed topic you are currently working on rather that than an overall blanket. You'll get more responses that way.