Rubber gasket or 4200/5200?

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Jun 3, 2004
730
Catalina 250 Wing Keel Eugene, OR
I am adding a pedestal guard. The pedestal feet that Edson supplied have rubber gaskets on the bottom, about 1/8" thick. I am thinking that the gaskets are not going to conform to the anti-skid deck in the cockpit and will leak. So, I am thinking that I will toss the rubber gaskets and use 4200/5200 between the deck and the stainless steel feet. Sound like a good idea? Other tips? This is a wet area on the boat and I don't want leaks into the aft berth.
 
Dec 2, 1999
15,184
Hunter Vision-36 Rio Vista, CA.
anything BUT 5200

Randy: Use almost anything other than 5200. I would suggest that you explore using butyl tape. This is similar to what is used to seal windows. It is impervious to saltwater, sun etc.
 

Zaphro

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Mar 20, 2008
101
Catalina 34 Mayport
Two out of two responses agree

I agree with Steve. You've got to be very careful where you use the 5200. If you seal it with 5200 and try to remove it someday, there's a very good chance the gel coat is coming off with the part. I attached a link to the 3M tech data web page.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,711
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
I use 3M 101

in a situation like that or Sikaflex 291 LOT with the edge going to 291 LOT. 3M 101 is easily removed and still offers a good bind while 291 LOT is similar in grip to 4200. Remember this is a mechanically fastened part so a death grip is not necessary. In fact the "death grip" of 5200 in NOT necessary anywhere on a boat including a keel joint! 5200 is a product designed to keep boat yards in business and suppliers selling new hatches, ports etc. nothing more nothing less. It is a horrible product compared to other sealants like 291 LOT. If you need a decent grip use Sikaflex 291 LOT it grips similarly to 4200 but offers an elongation at break of 700% where 4200 is 350% or half what 291 LOT is. Sikaflex also holds up better to UV more like 4000UV but with far better elasticity!
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
RandyK, I was supprised to learn that 5200

bonds poorly with stainless steel. Even when the steel surface is scratched with a 25 grid sanding disk. I did some research on this and as the 3M data sheet should show the bond strength on SS is only about 10 per cent of the strength of other bonds. That said, it will probably make a good tight seal for you and the mechanical fasteners will hold the guard in place.
 
Oct 15, 2004
163
Oday 34 Wauwatosa, WI
Rod, how does the Sikaflex bond with stainless?

I am repairing a wet rudder now, and was going to put 5200 in the joint where the stainless rudder post enters the top of the rudder body - which is where the water was apparently getting in - should I use Sikaflex there? Would you think the Sikaflex would be a better choice than 101 for my stanchions and deck fittings as well? Thanks, Scott
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,711
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Scott Yes..

Sikaflex bonds quite well to stainless and has double the flexibility for expansion/contraction between dissimilar products. I have never known 5200 to not hold well to stainless but I have seen it not be flexible enough for joints like stanchions, keels, dodger fittings etc.. If 3M says it only bonds to stainless at 10% than I guess it must be true but from my experience I've always had to use a wire brush on a drill to get it of a stanchion base or other fitting and a heat gun. I think the MOST important aspect is not how well either product bonds but how much elongation of a joint you can before sealant failure and Sika is TWICE as flexible as the 3M products. I use Sikaflex for my stanchions seeing as they flex more than anything else and considering how people grab them and yank on them all the time it is a perfect application. I have yet to have a fitting bedded with Sikaflex leak. It's not to say they eventually won't but I get more life out of Sikaflex 291 LOT than I do any other product. I'm kind of anal about re-bedding, so much so, that every fitting on my 2005 Catalina 310 has already been done, as a safe guard, mostly because I don't trust factory working hacks who could care less about the way a fitting was bedded! It's not their boat so all it has to do is pass the "squeeze out" visual test for final inspection and they are happy. Sikaflex 291 LOT still bonds quite well so I don't use it on plastic stuff or thin aluminum like a window frame but for just about everything else I use it. I still use 101 too and occasionally UV4000 but 4200, Silicone & 5200 are verboten on my boat. The keel on my old Catalina 30 was re-set with Sika about 10 years ago and to this day it's still bone dry even after the current owner admitted he's touched bottom a couple of times. The 5200 on that joint lasted 7 years... The trick to any joint remaining water tight is prep. Part of the reason I re-bedded my 2005 was so I could counter sink each hole slightly creating a sealant o-ring around the bolt and creating a gasket/o-ring type seal with MORE material/sealant to flex. The old sea tale of letting the sealant cure, before final tightening of the bolts, to create a gasket, is very dumb and I honestly can't believe many so called reputable authors suggest this. Think about it? You set a stanchion atop a blob of sealant and tighten the bolts slightly. You leave, let the sealant cure and come back in a few days to tighten the fitting. Great you now have a gasket but you just broke the MOST IMPORTANT seal of all! The seal between the bolt shaft and the sealant is the MOST critical because it is a direct path to the deck core allowing water to migrate down around the bolt threads and into the deck core. Once a fitting is bedded and cured a bolt or screw should NEVER be turned unless you are planning on re-bedding it again! I have seen to many surveys where owners used the "gasket" method and had wet core everywhere there was a bolt hole in the deck! I will not even look at a boat where I can tell this method was used to bed hardware.. Once a stanchion is bolted down you're lucky to have 1/32 of an inch of sealant left behind. Even a 700% flex is minimally sufficien, with so little sealant, so a small counter sink is the trick. You must also clean each surface with MEK or Acetone before applying the sealant and rough up stainless taking any shine off the base of a fitting. If the piece was previously bedded with silicone GOOD LUCK getting it free and clean. I use good old Scotch Brite and abrasives for removing Silicone unfortunately chemicals won't touch it as it is designed to be impervious to most all chemicals!
 
F

Fred

Use Sikaflex under the gasket, put the fittings

on top of the gasket. Then you have a seal at the bottom and it will be easy to remove if you need to.
 
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