I have been reading archives on finishing interior wood. Several comments refer to the "rubbed effect of varnish". Is that a satin varnish finish or is there a specific marine varnish called 'Rubbed Effect'? Maybe I have inhaled too many fumes. Jeff
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Peter
rubbed varnish
Well, I don't know about the previous posts that you are referring, but the typical reference to rubbed varnish is this: several coats of high gloss varnish, with sanding in between, followed by possible final sanding, but typically the final is rubbed with #0000 steel wool. Sometimes a wax is used as a lubricant in the final rubbing, sometimes not. Others may use pumice etc. The final effect is a very smooth finish that (depending on whether pumice was used or #0000 steel wool etc), is anywhere between a flat finish to gloss. High gloss is usually used in the buildup because it contains the least additives, which make a semi gloss, and the final gloss is controlled with the rubbing. Hope this helps. Peter
Well, I don't know about the previous posts that you are referring, but the typical reference to rubbed varnish is this: several coats of high gloss varnish, with sanding in between, followed by possible final sanding, but typically the final is rubbed with #0000 steel wool. Sometimes a wax is used as a lubricant in the final rubbing, sometimes not. Others may use pumice etc. The final effect is a very smooth finish that (depending on whether pumice was used or #0000 steel wool etc), is anywhere between a flat finish to gloss. High gloss is usually used in the buildup because it contains the least additives, which make a semi gloss, and the final gloss is controlled with the rubbing. Hope this helps. Peter
J
Jeff
Thanks Peter,
I read this in Sailnet's archives. I was not sure whether they were talking about a hand application of tung oil or satin finish or what. I have never fine sanded after a final gloss appl. Going to have to try it, (on a test piece).
I read this in Sailnet's archives. I was not sure whether they were talking about a hand application of tung oil or satin finish or what. I have never fine sanded after a final gloss appl. Going to have to try it, (on a test piece).
C
Chris Burti
Some technical info.
I offer a more technical and traditional version of hand rubbing. There are two basic kinds of rubbed finishes. One is created by rubbing in a combination of boiled linseed oil and turpentine or by rubbing in tung oil. The other (which I believe is the subject of this inquiry) is a technique used to remove minor defects in a brushed finish. Rubbed finishes were originally used with lacquer (clear or opaque) and later applied to alkyd paints and varnishes as well. Your assumption is correct that satin and semi-gloss finishes are simply chemical substitutes for laborious hand finishing. For the most part, they are satisfactory substitutes. Hand rubbing has been all but forgotten with the widespread adoption of sprayed finishes. Hand rubbing today, is really reserved for authentic reproductions or refinishing fine pieces. Sanding with steel wool is a double no-no. First, never, never use steel wool on any finish destined for a marine environment. The fine strands of metal break off into the finish during the sanding process and will rust. If you must go that route, use bronze wool or the correct grade of 3M pad. Second, it is very difficult to get a satisfactory effect as it is very difficult to completely avoid scratches created by sanding with steel wool...even with 0000/000 grade and a lubricant. I'll describe the technique that I was taught for those for whom traditional methods have appeal. Materials; pumice - 0/3 and 0/6 grade, rottenstone, mineral oil or a lighter weight rubbing oil, several hard rubbing blocks (felt 1/2" or thicker - often wrapped around a cork block), lint-free cotton rags- no seams or stitches. These can be purchased inexpensively from any good woodworker's supply (try www.woodworkers.com). First, IMHO, you should use a alkyd varnish. For my taste, the modern polyurethane varnishes are a bit too tough for a satisfactory traditional rubbed finish. Second, you are wasting your time if you don't possess the skills to lay on an immaculate finish, free of dust, bugs, bubbles and serious brush strokes (that is another entire lesson). Next, give the finish adequate time to dry properly between coats and fully cure prior to rubbing. 3/0 Pumice is used to level minor defects. the various grades of pumice will produce a flat, matte, satin, eggshell, semi-gloss or gloss finish by itself depending on the craftsman's skill, technique, the block, lubricant and grade of abrasive used. Rottenstone will produce a high gloss finish. It is also used mixed with furniture polish as a cleaner and polish. The abrasive is rubbed in, using successively finer grades, with the felt pad and lubricated with the oil. Water may be used as a lubricant instead for a more aggressive (and more difficult to control) cutting action. Care should be taken to keep the work area scrupulously clean and the abrasives separated in order to avoid contamination that will leave scratches and ruin your efforts. Apply the oil liberally to the pad and dip in the abrasive or use a shaker. Use light pressure with pumice and moderate pressure with rottenstone. Rub using long strokes in the direction of the grain of the wood. Work in a systematic pattern in slightly overlapping areas. Try to rub each area about the same amount and take care not to cut through the finish (particularly at edges and corners). Don't rub too fast or too hard, or you may heat up the finish, softening it and create a mess. Wipe down and inspect the surface frequently as you go. Keep the abrasive wetted by applying lubricant as needed. Clean the blocks frequently using clean lubricant and change to a fresh block when the finish creates hard spots on the block. These will scratch and gouge the finish. Clean off all traces of abrasive before moving to the next finer grade and always use a clean block for each grade. If mineral oil is used as a lubricant with pumice, clean off all traces with a solvent (such as naphtha) and let the finish cure fully (at least overnight) prior to using rottenstone. After rubbing is completed to your satisfaction, clean off all traces of oil, let the finish cure for 4-8 hours and rub in a high carnuba content paste wax. Use only paste wax for polishing thereafter. For the hard-core masochists in the crowd, we will pull out our shellac flakes, denatured alcohol, linseed oil, cotton pads and discuss French polishing next week. FWIW, I can't think of any reason to apply a proper rubbed finish on any boat used for recreation, it is a bit too tender for such applications. Short of a 1930's Herreshoff restoration, a Hinckley or a Cherubini, I would never consider it myself... not even for a well heeled customer (I do a very limited amount of Colonial reproduction furniture making and refinishing as an occasional avocation...this is absolutely not a solicitation...I have more projects now than I care to think about). Best regards, Chris
I offer a more technical and traditional version of hand rubbing. There are two basic kinds of rubbed finishes. One is created by rubbing in a combination of boiled linseed oil and turpentine or by rubbing in tung oil. The other (which I believe is the subject of this inquiry) is a technique used to remove minor defects in a brushed finish. Rubbed finishes were originally used with lacquer (clear or opaque) and later applied to alkyd paints and varnishes as well. Your assumption is correct that satin and semi-gloss finishes are simply chemical substitutes for laborious hand finishing. For the most part, they are satisfactory substitutes. Hand rubbing has been all but forgotten with the widespread adoption of sprayed finishes. Hand rubbing today, is really reserved for authentic reproductions or refinishing fine pieces. Sanding with steel wool is a double no-no. First, never, never use steel wool on any finish destined for a marine environment. The fine strands of metal break off into the finish during the sanding process and will rust. If you must go that route, use bronze wool or the correct grade of 3M pad. Second, it is very difficult to get a satisfactory effect as it is very difficult to completely avoid scratches created by sanding with steel wool...even with 0000/000 grade and a lubricant. I'll describe the technique that I was taught for those for whom traditional methods have appeal. Materials; pumice - 0/3 and 0/6 grade, rottenstone, mineral oil or a lighter weight rubbing oil, several hard rubbing blocks (felt 1/2" or thicker - often wrapped around a cork block), lint-free cotton rags- no seams or stitches. These can be purchased inexpensively from any good woodworker's supply (try www.woodworkers.com). First, IMHO, you should use a alkyd varnish. For my taste, the modern polyurethane varnishes are a bit too tough for a satisfactory traditional rubbed finish. Second, you are wasting your time if you don't possess the skills to lay on an immaculate finish, free of dust, bugs, bubbles and serious brush strokes (that is another entire lesson). Next, give the finish adequate time to dry properly between coats and fully cure prior to rubbing. 3/0 Pumice is used to level minor defects. the various grades of pumice will produce a flat, matte, satin, eggshell, semi-gloss or gloss finish by itself depending on the craftsman's skill, technique, the block, lubricant and grade of abrasive used. Rottenstone will produce a high gloss finish. It is also used mixed with furniture polish as a cleaner and polish. The abrasive is rubbed in, using successively finer grades, with the felt pad and lubricated with the oil. Water may be used as a lubricant instead for a more aggressive (and more difficult to control) cutting action. Care should be taken to keep the work area scrupulously clean and the abrasives separated in order to avoid contamination that will leave scratches and ruin your efforts. Apply the oil liberally to the pad and dip in the abrasive or use a shaker. Use light pressure with pumice and moderate pressure with rottenstone. Rub using long strokes in the direction of the grain of the wood. Work in a systematic pattern in slightly overlapping areas. Try to rub each area about the same amount and take care not to cut through the finish (particularly at edges and corners). Don't rub too fast or too hard, or you may heat up the finish, softening it and create a mess. Wipe down and inspect the surface frequently as you go. Keep the abrasive wetted by applying lubricant as needed. Clean the blocks frequently using clean lubricant and change to a fresh block when the finish creates hard spots on the block. These will scratch and gouge the finish. Clean off all traces of abrasive before moving to the next finer grade and always use a clean block for each grade. If mineral oil is used as a lubricant with pumice, clean off all traces with a solvent (such as naphtha) and let the finish cure fully (at least overnight) prior to using rottenstone. After rubbing is completed to your satisfaction, clean off all traces of oil, let the finish cure for 4-8 hours and rub in a high carnuba content paste wax. Use only paste wax for polishing thereafter. For the hard-core masochists in the crowd, we will pull out our shellac flakes, denatured alcohol, linseed oil, cotton pads and discuss French polishing next week. FWIW, I can't think of any reason to apply a proper rubbed finish on any boat used for recreation, it is a bit too tender for such applications. Short of a 1930's Herreshoff restoration, a Hinckley or a Cherubini, I would never consider it myself... not even for a well heeled customer (I do a very limited amount of Colonial reproduction furniture making and refinishing as an occasional avocation...this is absolutely not a solicitation...I have more projects now than I care to think about). Best regards, Chris
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Peter
excellent comments
Well, I think you pretty much summed that one up. I totally agree one shouldn't use steel wool on the boat (my mistake), and I also agree that alkyd varnish, poly's are far to hard. I'll stick to using my home brew of oil for my boat interior- one part linseed, one part alkyd varnish and one part turpentine. I'm looking forward to next weeks lesson on french polishing...just find me a good cheap place to buy the dewaxed shellac flakes. Peter
Well, I think you pretty much summed that one up. I totally agree one shouldn't use steel wool on the boat (my mistake), and I also agree that alkyd varnish, poly's are far to hard. I'll stick to using my home brew of oil for my boat interior- one part linseed, one part alkyd varnish and one part turpentine. I'm looking forward to next weeks lesson on french polishing...just find me a good cheap place to buy the dewaxed shellac flakes. Peter
T
Tom S
So Chris, I take it you don't recomend I do this
"french manicure" or polish whatever for my cabin soles?. I was just resurfacing them with Spar Varnish? Also -- Every you every heard or seen of "Ultimate Varnish" -- It is has a very good non-skid non-slip quality to it. http://www.ultimatesole.com/index.asp?ID=10
"french manicure" or polish whatever for my cabin soles?. I was just resurfacing them with Spar Varnish? Also -- Every you every heard or seen of "Ultimate Varnish" -- It is has a very good non-skid non-slip quality to it. http://www.ultimatesole.com/index.asp?ID=10
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