Rub Rail Screw Seepage

[Nodak7]

OK getting set up for the spring work list and one item I have on my list is to repair a very slight leak coming from the screws that hold the rub rail to the stern of the boat. I have enclosed a picture of the inside of the storage area. You can see the black discoloration. My plan is to remove the screws holding the rub rail in that section, one at a time, then putting sealant on them and reseting the screws. My question is has anyone else done this before. Is there something I need to look out for and which sealant should I used?

This section of the rub rail is always underwater and though this is not bad it bothers me to have a leak of any kind or size.

 

[maxrdr]

Nodak7 - your fix just might do the trick if the leak is only at the screw locations. I would suggest that you do your boat and crew a favor and get her on her feet by shortening sail. My guess is that once on her lines, you will see an increase in speed and reduced stress on sails, rigging (running and standing) and crew. Just my two cents. I am fairly new to larger keel boats, as my experience has been mostly in Snipes, Flying Dutchmen, Flying Scots, E-scows and J-24's.; but when in doubt, let her out....has stood the test of time for me. Might solve part of your water issue.

 

[Nodak7]

Nodak7 - your fix just might do the trick if the leak is only at the screw locations. I would suggest that you do your boat and crew a favor and get her on her feet by shortening sail. My guess is that once on her lines, you will see an increase in speed and reduced stress on sails, rigging (running and standing) and crew. Just my two cents. I am fairly new to larger keel boats, as my experience has been mostly in Snipes, Flying Dutchmen, Flying Scots, E-scows and J-24's.; but when in doubt, let her out....has stood the test of time for me. Might solve part of your water issue.

Max...I had to LOL on your response. No she stays on here feet most of the time. The rub rail is at the very stern of the boat and is in the water most of the time. Whether underway or at the slip. If it were on either side it would be quite a heel on this boat. If you look at my avatar she is heeled there pretty good and as you can see the rail is still quite a way from the water. But thanks for the suggestion.

 

[Don Lucas]

Never had to deal with the aft rub rail/joint on my boat (yet). But is seems pretty common to have to reseal them and I feel your plan is a good first easy try. Seems that if the problem gets bad it is best to glass the joint from the inside.

 

[robertsapp]

That's an interesting picture. What year is your boat? I'm curious, because on our 1995 H336, the entire hull to deck joint from the rear cleats back is glassed over on the inside, so even though the rubrail around the scoop stern is usually under water when we're underway, there's no way it can leak. I assume it came from the factory that way, and I'm wondering if it's something they quit doing.

 

[Nodak7]

It is a 2006 and we found this when we did the survey. It is right at the bottom of the sugar scoop. Nothing serious but bothersome. I just want to clean it up and make sure there is no further seepage.

 

[robertsapp]

I guess someone must have suggested a "manufacturing improvement" sometime between 1995 and 2006 to save an hour's labor by not glassing that joint anymore. Hey, the caulk will outlast the warranty, right? Anyway, it's a joint that's often below the waterline that depends on sealant to keep the water out of the boat. I'd say if it's accessible, glass over it. If not or you don't want to, try more sealant, but you'll still be depending on sealant to keep the water on the outside. A fine strategy for ports and hardware, not sure it's the best thing to do below the waterline. Good luck with it, at least it's only a nuisance leak and not a serious problem.

 

[Nodak7]

I guess someone must have suggested a "manufacturing improvement" sometime between 1995 and 2006 to save an hour's labor by not glassing that joint anymore. Hey, the caulk will outlast the warranty, right? Anyway, it's a joint that's often below the waterline that depends on sealant to keep the water out of the boat. I'd say if it's accessible, glass over it. If not or you don't want to, try more sealant, but you'll still be depending on sealant to keep the water on the outside. A fine strategy for ports and hardware, not sure it's the best thing to do below the waterline. Good luck with it, at least it's only a nuisance leak and not a serious problem.

I discussed this with the inspector and what he said is this is common. The screws go a bit farther into the fiberglass and overtime the water finds its way thru the threads. His suggestion was to back out the screws put some more sealant on them and replace. Just wondering what sealant to use and how difficult it is to get to the screws. Not by the boat and do not recall if the head of the screws are under a decorative cover.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

I Can Sympathsize With Your Situation...........

........... as I am/was looking at a similar situation to yours. It's a bit of a conundrum which basically involved a leak at the deck-hull joint, but I won't bore you with the details. What I did want to mention is that playing with the rub rail is the bugger of all creation.

When the boat was delivered from the factory in 1998, it developed a leak under the chain plate in very short order. Re-sealing necessitated prying out a short section of the starboard rub rail and was it ever fun. The dealer and I went at it with three hair dryers and and a dozen oak wedges before we opened it up enough to get at the base of the chain plate. I notice that you refer to "screws" holding the joint together and I am taking this to mean wood screws. I notice when we had the rub rail pried out, the joint was fastened by 1/4" machine screws spaced about every four inches. All went very well and that was the end of that repair. Attached is a picture Hunter sent along showing the two piece construction of the rub rail.

Now fast forward fourteen years and another problem requiring the partial opening of the rub rail rears it's ugly head. However in this case, it looks like the whole starboard side of the boat may require removal of the rub rail. It's a very small leak which appears only when it rains but I have a strong aversion to leaks.

I recently talked to Eddie Breeden of Hunter Marine and we looked at what was involved with this job. Lots of heat to make older rub rail pliable plus they have a nasty habit of shrinking once they are released from the confines of the hull-deck joint hardware. He suggested the rub rail be held to length downstream of the
removal, using a large C-clamp. My fear was that the rub rail might be so rigid it would require replacement. And unfortunately, it's no longer made in that shape.

Another piece of information which is common to most boats, is the sealant in the deck-hull joint is 3M 5200. This will also be covering the the screws which means you may not be able to remove them to reseal.

Given the above information, I finally decided to leave the leak rather than deal with what may become a very large problem and the final result may be far worse than the initital small leak. Additionly, I chose not to seal the leak from the inside due to the worry of having the cavity fill with a small amount of water which
would eventually freeze in the winter and cause progressive expansion damage.

 

[Nodak7]

Re: I Can Sympathsize With Your Situation...........

Ralph, thanks for the information. You bring up lots of good (and concerning) points. I need to take a very close look at it as soon as I can get to the boat. This sounds like a much uglier job than I was led to believe. Maybe the suggestion that I fiberglass it from the inside might be the better fix.

Nodak7

 

[Warren Milberg]

For starters, my guess is that you've already tried to tighten the bolts holding the rub rail in place. I had a similar problem on an old C&C I used to own. Many of the bolts had looseded due to hull flexing while sailing hard. But I then took some Capt Tolley Creeping Crack Cure (a liquid epoxy) and dribbled it around the head of each toe rail bolt. Goes on white, but dries clear. Bingo, leak gone. I'd try that first before pulling and re-caulking each bolt. Whatever works, works.

 

[robertsapp]

Re: I Can Sympathsize With Your Situation...........

You'll probably find that as a 2006, you have the newer design rubrail with the stainless steel decorative insert, but it's functionally the same - a "T" shaped track holding the rubrail thats bolted onto the outward (or in this case, downward) facing flange, bolted every so many inches with machine screws. Since you're talking about the stern, you'll have to start removing the rubrail at the bow and work your way all the way aft. Unless you don't care what it looks like, and then you could just cut it at the stern. (Ugg) Ralph's point is well made - the PO of our boat removed the rubrail at some point, and was never able to get it back on right. It shrank in length such that it now stops about a foot short of the bow on both sides. Hate it, but can't do anything about it, because Barbour Plastics wants a minimum order of 250 feet before they'll run another batch.

 

[Nodak7]

FYI - Eddie at Hunter got back to me (within an hour of emailing him) and I guess Hunter had changed the design of the rub rail (for 2006) and a repair like this is no longer a huge problem.

He states:

It shouldn’t be that hard. Remove the fasteners in the metal strip / insert (shown in attached photos) and remove or pull back. This will expose the fasteners he is talking about. Remove one at the time…clean…apply a generous amount of marine grade silicone adhesive (3M 5200)…reinstall by hand….no power tools.

Then clean the inside seam and caulk with the same adhesive.

Just to make sure he called me as well. I have to give Hunter lots of credit for customer support.

 

[artboas]

I agree with Eddie.
Had the same problem on my 49.
Just pull the screws, shoot a bunch of 5200 in each hole, and re-install the screws.
leaks will disappear.

 

[Nodak7]

As an update I did this repair yesterday and it was as Eddie said, "pretty easy". The removal of the rub rail decorative cover was not an issue though it was a lot "stiffer" than I expected I was able to undo the screws and move it aside enough to get to the retaining screws. Removed the four (4) screws I thought were the problem, cleaned them and reapplied 5200. Reassembly was no issue. The whole process took about 30 minutes and one screw driver. Hopefully it is repaired. I will see when it hits the water in a couple of weeks!