Rope to Wire - O-Day 25

[CShev]

Hi All,

I'm new here ( pleased to meet you), I picked up a lovely 79 O'Day 25 about two months ago - my first sailboat. I've spent the last couple of months sailing in a fairly sheltered fiord while I get to know the boat ( and as a beginner sailor). Now I have a better idea of what needs to be fixed/addressed, what should be addressed, and what I'd might like to do to tailor the boat to my needs (mostly single handing).

First up is a replacement of the rope-to-wire halyards. The rope is giving up so this falls into the 'needs to be fixed' pile right at the top. After some research I understand that I can convert to rope Halyards, and after checking if the current rope will pull through the sheaves ( it wont) ,I know I'd need to change out the sheaves to do it. Alternatively I can buy new rope-to-wire halyard kits - however they're getting hard to find as I guess they're obsolete , in fact rope to wire is obsolete enough that the rigging shops in Vancouver will no longer make them! ( but you all probably know that).

So ( here's the questions).. thinking about it today I wondered why I don't just cut and loop/crimp the wire where it's currently spliced into the old rope , then get a new rope with a spliced loop that I can shackle to the new wire loop to join them. I don't see this 'plan' coming up in discussions in any forums so I suspect the idea has some flaws ... but maybe it's a reasonable plan ??

Would anyone out there with a better education/experience around this be kind enough to let me know whether this seems worth pursuing .. or just give me your 2 cents on the matter generally?

Kindly
Colin

 

[sail sfbay]

Welcome to the forum and congratulations on your new sailboat!!

Can your sheaves accept rope? If so, suggest replacing the wire to rope halyards with rope. You might find these threads on this subject helpful:

Replacing wire halyards with rope | SailNet Community
replace rope/wire halyards with synthetic? | SailNet Community
Wire / Rope Halyard | SailNet Community
converting from wire-rope halyard to all-rope | EY.o Information Exchange (ericsonyachts.org)

 

[jssailem]

Hi Colin. Welcome to the SBO forum. Congrats on your new to you boat. You sail in some great water.

get a new rope with a spliced loop that I can shackle to the new wire loop to join them.

You say the "rope" will not go through the sheaves. With a shackle and spliced loop I suspect it will be too big to go through the sheaves.

You might be able to cut the wire, lace a small messenger line to the wire with electrician's tape. Then connect by sewing with twine the messenger to your new rope halyard. The messenger does not need to be longer than 0.3 m. then pull the wire out drawing the new halyard into place.

I would look at line that has a dyneema core and a polyester cover. Ok feel and great no stretch to the halyard.

Confirm that the sheaves are working and that the diameter of the halyard will fit the sheave.

 

[CShev]

Thanks both for the replies and the welcome!

It seems like, if I don't want to replace the sheave right now, then a synthetic rope with the cover removed to fit through the existing sheaves might be the way to go. I believe I read that the strength of modern synthetics ( even core only) is plenty strong and will do for my needs.

John @jsailem , I suspect I didn't describe my plan well - let me try again ... My thinking was to keep the exiting halyard wire (so no need for a messenger line). I would cut the halyard wire where its' currently spliced to the rope , and crimp a loop in the wire at that point. My hope was that I could then attach my new rope to that point with a shackle.
Also - I couldn't agree more - fantastic water - really looking forward to some larger trips to explore once I'm ready!

Kindly
Colin

 

[Davidasailor26]

It seems like, if I don't want to replace the sheave right now, then a synthetic rope with the cover removed to fit through the existing sheaves might be the way to go. I believe I read that the strength of modern synthetics ( even core only) is plenty strong and will do for my needs.

Indeed dyneema can be even stronger than wire, and much lighter. The downside is that it’s not as chafe resistant, particularly without a polyester cover. If there are no wear points it could be a solution though.

 

[Project_Mayhem]

My 1978 O'Day 25 has all rope halyards. Estimate 1-2 hours to remove the masthead and replace the sheaves if needed. If you're taking your mast down be sure to put some grease on the bushings. It'll make a huge difference when hoisting the sail. My mast will be unstepped in 2-3 weeks if you need a reference. For parts and very specific advise contact Rudy at D and R Marine

 

[shemandr]

... I would cut the halyard wire where its' currently spliced to the rope , and crimp a loop I n the wire at that point. My hope was that I could then attach my new rope to that point with a shackle

I guess the question is where in the halyard that connection will be. If the connection doesn't go through any sheaves, or turning blocks I guess that could work. The reason the halyard isn't all wire is to be kind to the crew's hands. So when you raise the sail you basically pull the wire up the length of the mast . And pull the wire/rope connection down the same length. Will you still be pulling on rope when the shackle to the sail nears the mast head?
When you say the rope part of the halyard is giving up, in what way? Most of the strength of the rope is in the core. If the cover is abraded, worn, or sun damaged you may be able to just replace the cover.
Whatever you do the skill of being able to run a messenger line to replace the halyard is an important one and one that will save you money. Pulling that halyard out of the mast should routine. Some boat owners do it as part of winter lay up.

 

[danooxnard]

Why not keep it simple? Cut off the old rope and replace with new rope. Keep the wire, simply attach new rope to the wire with a simple bowline knot. Cost and labor are about as cheap as it gets. This worked great on my catalina 22. There is also a fancy knot to tie rope onto the wire halyards if wish. Good luck! Dano

 

[RoyS]

An all rope halyard may disappoint you. I bought an all rope halyard here at SBO and I am not pleased with it. After hoisting the mainsail and tying it off, it stretches. Soon after starting off, my sail has sagged about 6 inches and I have to go back on deck and retighten the halyard. Wire and rope halyards are more stable, pretty much set and forget. Your plan will probably work.

 

[Project_Mayhem]

The question of "Will rope go through the sheaves?" has popped up a couple of times. I does on my 78 but you say it doesnt on your 79. My question is what size rope is spliced onto the wire? I can grab a measurement off of mine if needed

I have not had any issues with halyard stretch on my main sail that would require me to go back on deck. I have had to adjust my furled jib once or twice a season. Some stretch in the halyard keeps an inexperienced crew from putting too much tension on the sail when hoisting

 

[jssailem]

With the ropes available today, it is no longer the issue it once was. Manilla ropes now they were a problem.

Just choose a rope material that is designed to serve the purpose you have.

• Dyneema is a no stretch rope but slippery and unpleasant hand feel
• Dacron/Dyneema combo improves on the hand feel and slippery issue.
• Dacron double plait (i.e. Yacht Braid) has a 2-5% stretch.
• Nylon (not advised for halyards) can stretch up to 20% but it is the cheapest price.

That is just the quick and dirty. There are multiple combinations that are on the market from the several manufacturers. It requires a little homework but you can find the rope to fit your needs.

 

[Joe]

If you go coverer strip route, think about saving money by purchasing a dyneema core (stronger than wire) and cover the handled and cleated back half with the outer layer of a much less expensive poly double braid. The added strength allows you to go down in size from factory recommedation. That would mean a 3/16" core covered by a 5/16" sheath. Shop around to save lots. On my Cat 27, which has restriction on sheave width of just over 1/4. So I built my "tapered halyards" with 80ft of 3/16 Samson Amsteel and the cover of 45ft of 5/16 Yale Yachtbraid (I can't remember it that's what it was called). Anyway, with the strip method you'll pay about $2.10/ft for Warpspeed which has amsteel core. That's over $200 with tax (shipping usually free) The 1/4 Amsteel I paid around $1.00/ft and the 5/16 Yacht braid was about .50'ft. So core and cover cost less than $110.00 ! I used the dacron core of the inexpensive double braid to fish in the new dyneema core. I used a "taper" or "bury" splice shown in the Samson Ropes splicing guide available on their website. You don't need any special tools to make the splice... except a very sharp pair of scissors or an xacto knife to taper the cut the strands so they bury smoothly into each other. You'll also want a spool of whipping twine and a heavy needle to lock stitch he splice. I've seen packets of specialty needles every where.. pretty cheap. Finally, you'll want to melt both ends of the line. The only other splicing option is if you want an eye in the shackle end of the halyard. For years I spliced in the "luggage tag" version. The long loop allows you to bend or cow hitch the shackle on to the halyard, also cutting the loop for removal is unnecessary. However, even though a single braid eyesplice is pretty easy (unlike the double braid, which has a bit of a learning curve) you'll need a fid tool for the splice. Myself, the last two halyards I've built I just used the "halyard knot" I mentioned in another thread recently and have been satisfied in ever way. Good Luck

 

[CShev]

Thank you all! I had not considered ( or knew) a lot of options that have been suggested here - I really appreciate the knowledge! I suspect I'm going to take an easy fix for now in favour of sailing for as long as can this year - then reconsider when I bring her up on the hard for the winter ( and discover what else needs to be addressed)!

Very much appreciated!
Colin