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Rope to Chain Rode Packages

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Jan 4, 2006
2,656
Hunter 310 Island Hunter West Vancouver, B.C.
Does anyone know of a well priced supplier that will make up rope/chain packages to given dimensions ?

I'm looking at installing an electric windlass (to replace the armstrong windlass) and installing new rope and chain. Our northern waters are a little deep (need 400' of line) and 40' of chain helps me sleep at night.

Thanks as always for your help.
 

RichH

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Feb 14, 2005
4,775
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
A proper "warp to chain splice" is not that hard to do DIY and is certainly stronger than the commonly (USA) accepted 'crown spice' used for joining rope to chain. The "warp to chain splice" easily rides in most chain gypsies.
Here's how to do: http://www.bluemoment.com/warpchainsplice.html
 
Jan 22, 2008
1,483
Hunter 37 C sloop Punta Gorda FL
Never saw any "packages" except for what WM has in their catalog. Any competent rigger can do the splice. Key things are to match chain size and chain type to windlass, and be sure the chain wheel is intended for rope as well as chain. .
 
Jan 1, 2006
4,489
Slickcraft 26 Greenport, NY
A proper "warp to chain splice" is not that hard to do DIY and is certainly stronger than the commonly (USA) accepted 'crown spice' http://www.bluemoment.com/warpchainsplice.html
I looked at that site and I like that splice a lot more than the crown splice, which I used for years. Obviously, it spreads the load better than the crown splice which seems subject to abrasion, and with the strands bent aggressively around the link, subject to breakage.
 
Dec 2, 1999
15,184
Hunter Vision-36 Rio Vista, CA.
You need to find a local supplier otherwise you are going to spend a small fortune for freight. I would suggest that you go with a little longer chain (maybe 75'-100') and shorter on the line. Not going to make a lot of difference. If you have a windlass it is not going to make much difference. The chain will stack up much better than the line.
 
Sep 5, 2007
689
MacGregor 26X Rochester
A proper "warp to chain splice" is not that hard to do DIY and is certainly stronger than the commonly (USA) accepted 'crown spice' used for joining rope to chain. The "warp to chain splice" easily rides in most chain gypsies.
Here's how to do: http://www.bluemoment.com/warpchainsplice.html
The author refers to a 'constrictor knot', but it looks like some length of seizing to me. Is that all the constrictor knot is?

Other than not being clear to me what that means, I like that splice, even though neither my present nor any past boats had a windlass. I've never really like the crown knot for splicing to chain, for the reasons already given by others.
 

RichH

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Feb 14, 2005
4,775
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
Here's a constrictor knot ... its a knot that is almost impossible to loosen once it has been tightened: http://www.netknots.com/rope_knots/constrictor-knot

It was developed by the 'thugees' on the Indian sub-continent whose means of attack was by sneaking up behind their victim, putting the noose over the head, etc. The 'constrictor' knot is also called 'the strangler' knot.
 
Sep 5, 2007
689
MacGregor 26X Rochester
Thanks. From the pic, it looked (and still does) like a bit of seizing. I thought maybe there was something special about it, but I'm not sure if it's needed to prevent unravelling in service, or just while making the splice.

 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
The constrictor know is basically a clove hitch with one tail tucked under the other to form an overhand knot under the crossing turn. You can tie it slipped by pulling a loop through instead of a tail.
 

RichH

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Feb 14, 2005
4,775
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
Thanks. From the pic, it looked (and still does) like a bit of seizing. I thought maybe there was something special about it, but I'm not sure if it's needed to prevent unravelling in service, or just while making the splice.

"just while making the splice"
Almost any splicing requires either a 'seizing' or 'knot' tied over the rope to prevent unravelling during the splicing procedure. Once the splicing is completed, the knot or seizing is unneeded but usually left in place.
 
Sep 5, 2007
689
MacGregor 26X Rochester
I usually just put a wrap or two of electrical tape on the ends of the three strands, and where the unravelling ends, while splicing eyes. It's cheap, and comes right off without leaving a trace if not left on too long. But I was confused by what looks like seizing in the how-to photo sequence and the description of using a constrictor knot. I guess it's just for making the joint, and not a critical part of the finished splice.
 

Tricia

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Jun 4, 2004
72
Freedom 30 Victoria, BC
rope to chain splice

Donaldson Ropes in North Vancouver will splice rope to chain for a reasonable price.
 
Mar 2, 2008
407
Cal 25 mk II T-Bird Marina, West Vancouver
Ask "Performance Yacht ...." at our marina and/or "Pro-Tech ...." in North Vancouver.
 
Mar 26, 2011
2,488
Corsair F-24 MK I Deale, MD
I looked at that site and I like that splice a lot more than the crown splice, which I used for years. Obviously, it spreads the load better than the crown splice which seems subject to abrasion, and with the strands bent aggressively around the link, subject to breakage.
No prespliced packages and few people use this splice for several good reasons:


  • It is AKA the shovel splice, because it brings up a lot of mud in some bottoms. This also causes it to rust chains more than a crown splice.
  • It will not pass many vertical windlasses. I tried mine (Lewmar V700 and Lewmar Sprint). I've seen it do well on other windlasses.
  • Without maintenance the seizings fail and it becomes a mess.
  • The crown splice only seem subject to abrasion. Properly tied there is no movement.
As for the load distribution, that is not at all obvious, as you think. The only reason sharp turns (other than an actual knife edge--different math) strain the rope is because more load is carried by the outside strands than the inside. Because the rope is unlaid before a crown splice, the diameter of the strands is 1/3 and thus the minimum radius is 1/3. In simpler terms, the chain link is comparable in diameter to a single rope strand and thus it does not constitute a particularly sharp turn. Gotta think cordage engineer to get that one, but it all about the construction details.

So while the long splice is an alternative for some, most don't think it is better. Perhaps it is for you. Perhaps not. I've used both.

Some pics:
http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/2011/09/new-anchor-35-pound-manson-supreme.html
 
Jan 4, 2006
2,656
Hunter 310 Island Hunter West Vancouver, B.C.
Thanks to All ................................

.................... for your comments and suggestions.

The most valuable thing to come out of this is the the reference to the "warp to chain splice".

The chain to rope splice is the most worrisome part of the proposed new ground tackle. I've been using big eye splices around thimbles on my armstrong windlass and never had a worry about losing the anchor and chain.

I have a spare anchor and rode stowed away which came with the boat (used to be the main anchor) when I bought it new. Consists of nothing more than a few short scraps of chain and rope held together with a crown splice. Never did like the look of that thing. After using it for only a year, it looks scary. Strands are chafed on the rough hot galvanizing from being wrapped around the 1/4" chain link. Seems to defy everything which is taught about line splicing i.e. don't bend around a tight radius ................. use a thimble.

The one other truth to come out of this is: if there is such a thing as cheap rode south of the border, it's soon going to be lost to shipping charges. Looks like it's time to BOAT (break out another thousand) :doh:.
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Re: Thanks to All ................................

I believe that we should be looking at the safety factors involved here. We have the opportunity to inspect the ground tackle everytime we use it. Almost all of the time when I anchor out a 12 pound danforth on 3/8 nylon 3 strand would be plenty but I use a 35# CQR on 3/8 chain and 5/8 -3 strand nylon. I carry 300 feet and deploy much of it when it gets stinky. With all of the stretch and the gusty nature of the wind I have no fear of ever testing the limits of my ground tackle.
 
Mar 1, 2012
1,969
1961 Rhodes Meridian 25 Texas coast
I've used the back splice method for going on 20 years now, and many many nights at anchor. I inspect it periodically, and have NEVER seen the slightest sign of chafe at the splice. Properly done the rope does not move, so can't chafe. And if I have any doubts, it takes about 15 minutes to re do the splice. No big deal.

I'll keep using it.
 
Mar 26, 2011
2,488
Corsair F-24 MK I Deale, MD
Ralph Johnstone;1026167 Seems to defy everything which is taught about line splicing i.e. don't bend around a tight radius ................. use a thimble.[/quote said:
No, it does not.

Because the strands are unlaid, it is NOT a tight radius, not in proportion to the diameter of the strand. Thus the maldistribution of stress caused when a large rope goes around a shackle does not occur.

Regarding chafe due to motion, that is the result of a poor splice. I've never seen that.

If the chafe is on the sea bottom, then this is a case for all chain.

----

Standard practices generally develop because they work.
 

FB111A

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May 4, 2013
36
Pacific Seacraft Crealock34 Belfast, Maine
Are you in New England Ralf. If so Hamilton Marine can make up your chain/ rode.
 
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