Roller furling twist on hoisting..

[Kopite]

Hi,
I have a harken roller furling on my Catalina27. It works perfectly, and has been nicely set up. However, if I drop the sail, and try to rehoist, the upper bearing spins around the stay as it hoists, such that the halyard wraps around the stay. I have removed the halyard from the sail - it doesn't have any twist, so the twist must be generated by the hoisting action. The head of the sail has a wire leader, intended to allow the upper bearing to sit close to the sheave at the mast head, and the connection from the halyard to the upper bearing is a simple "U" shackle. My halyards run in the mast, through a block at the mast base, and then a block mounted on the deck, before reaching the winch by the cockpit.
Any ideas what is causing the twist - and if so how can I mitigate the source ? If it can't be mitigated, I'll look into a swivel shackle for the halyard, but that's not easy as I don't have much room between the upper furling bearing and the mast sheave. Shortening the wire lead at the sail head would be possible, but I'm concerned that, in conjunction with the swivel addition I might run into halyard wrap issues..
By the way, at the moment I have two ways to make it work.. Either put 7 twists in the halyard before hoisting, or running a guy rope around the halyard to prevent it moving around the stay as it goes up.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Do you have a halyard restrainer at the top of the mast?

 

[Kopite]

No, due to the wire lead on the head of the sail, only about 2" of halyard shows when hoisted. This stops the upper bearing from ever rotating once hoisted.

 

[woodster]

take a 1/4 inch line long enough to reach back down to the deck (if it is 35 ft to the top you need 70 ft of line ) and thread it through the shackle and when you hoist it up the foil let the 1/4 inch line be like a bridle to hold the swivel from twisting as it goes up...when it is up just drop one end of the 1/4 inch line and pull the other end down till it all comes down ..that will stop the twisting of the top half of the swivel until it is at the top..... or rig it up permanently and call it a down haul

 

[Kopite]

Woodster, that's exactly what I've been doing. Works fine.
So, is this twist effect normal, and I just have to live with it ?

 

[woodster]

Woodster, that's exactly what I've been doing. Works fine. So, is this twist effect normal, and I just have to live with it ?

I can't explain the twisting part on the top bearing but if you are making do the way I described then I would not let it bother me just use it and go sailing some else may have a better answer for this but my guess is without seeing it in action it will be hard to explain. It may be that the bearings are fouled in the housing maybe.

 

[Joe]

This sounds like a Harken issue, instead of a Catalina 27 one. Perhaps a call to Harken customers service might shed some new light on the problem. http://www.harken.com/Service/

 

[alexco38]

You could have significant twist on your halyard. May be last time you un-step, the halyard was coiled. Upon re-step, you let the twist gone inside the mast.

Try to untwist the halyard while the sail is up. It happened to me on the outhaul. It jams inside the boom. Took forever to figure it out.

 

[Apex]

maintain tension while hoisting if you can. Is this while undersay? Wrap can be common, hence the halyard restrainer at top, it changes the angle of pull to prevent the swivel from wrapping. We had one on the Catalina 25, which was a wire/rope halyard.

 

[naitaka]

About 3 inches below where the halyard leaves the top of the mast, you should put a fairlead and run the halyard through the fairlead to the base of the mast. Then attach your halyard to the sail and it will not wrap around the furler when you hoist it up. Check with any rigger to verify.

 

[dmoorew]

You need to add a swivel at the halyard. If you have a wire to shorten at the top of your sail it makes it easier. I have seen new wire halyard shredded by the twist when the swivel.
David

 

[jcb2]

bearings dry?

Hi,
I have a harken roller furling on my Catalina27. It works perfectly, and has been nicely set up. However, if I drop the sail, and try to rehoist, the upper bearing spins around the stay as it hoists, such that the halyard wraps around the stay. I have removed the halyard from the sail - it doesn't have any twist, so the twist must be generated by the hoisting action. The head of the sail has a wire leader, intended to allow the upper bearing to sit close to the sheave at the mast head, and the connection from the halyard to the upper bearing is a simple "U" shackle. My halyards run in the mast, through a block at the mast base, and then a block mounted on the deck, before reaching the winch by the cockpit.
Any ideas what is causing the twist - and if so how can I mitigate the source ? If it can't be mitigated, I'll look into a swivel shackle for the halyard, but that's not easy as I don't have much room between the upper furling bearing and the mast sheave. Shortening the wire lead at the sail head would be possible, but I'm concerned that, in conjunction with the swivel addition I might run into halyard wrap issues..
By the way, at the moment I have two ways to make it work.. Either put 7 twists in the halyard before hoisting, or running a guy rope around the halyard to prevent it moving around the stay as it goes up.

It sounds like friction causing a torque to twist the top around thus causing the halyard to wrap around. Most furlers now have Delrin bearings for corrosion resistance. However any lubricant other than water can make them swell and bind causing friction. (I know, I mistakenly thought WD40 would help-It doesn't).Try soaking the bearings with a garden hose or a bucket of clean water before hoisting to reduce the friction.

 

[Kopite]

Thanks for input. I could add a device to control the spin on hoisting, but I don't think I need it since once hoisted all is OK.
I found a post from 2009 by suttonbaysteve which was similar- and the fix was to wash the halyard. This got me thinking. I had moved my jib halyard from port to starboard at the start of the season. (PO had a green halyard at port which just seemed wrong !) I suspect it has some twist or "memory" from the previous use which is causing the spin. I'll give it a wash over the off season and see it that helps. I also just tried hoisting with the new red halyard I have on the port side, and it hoists without issue. ( I now just need to redo the attachment for that halyard as I spliced the eye too big - which is why I wasn't using it..)
Thanks, Andrew

 

[Bristol35-5sailboat]

You could have significant twist on your halyard. May be last time you un-step, the halyard was coiled. Upon re-step, you let the twist gone inside the mast.

Try to untwist the halyard while the sail is up. It happened to me on the outhaul. It jams inside the boom. Took forever to figure it out.

The simplest method, if you are not sure this halyard has twist is to remove it from the mast, drag it behind the boat for an hour or two to allow any twist to work out. Then coil using figure 8s. Sometimes repeated "coiling" from multiple turns on a winch, which are not reversed when the line is taken off the winch, can accumulate into the twist of the line.

 

[Sailfanatic]

I'd suggest you have the luff tape extended on the lead at the head oh the sail. Our sail maker set our jibs up that way - he said it was necessary...