At the marina where I sail, it's difficult to find enough clean, flat space to fold a sail properly. For that, and other reasons of convenience, I'm considering going to a roller furler. In discussions with sailmakers, a couple of issues were raised that I hadn't considered: 1. Water intrusion down the rolled up sail - the idea that "water can get in, but not out. Combine that with heat and you have a mildew friendly environment." Yet I don't think I have ever seen a roller-furled sail with mildew problems. For you guys with roller set-ups, is that indeed a concern? 2. Distortion of the foam on the luff - "after a few months the foam flattens out and the luff shape is again compromised when the sail is reefed." Do you find that generally to be the case? Thanks for your input.
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Steve W.
No 'dew
Bob, Here is Texas, conditions are ideal for mildew; high humidity and heat. I've had roller furling on my boats since 1991 and have never encountered that problem. I've had to roll them up once or twice still wet, but haven't run into mildew. As far as the shape goes, who cares? If you're racing, you probably aren't going to have RF, so why be overly concerned? My headsail does very well reefed using the furler as does my mainsail. The convenience far outweighs any potential problems, IMHO. Fair winds, Steve S/V Options H380
Bob, Here is Texas, conditions are ideal for mildew; high humidity and heat. I've had roller furling on my boats since 1991 and have never encountered that problem. I've had to roll them up once or twice still wet, but haven't run into mildew. As far as the shape goes, who cares? If you're racing, you probably aren't going to have RF, so why be overly concerned? My headsail does very well reefed using the furler as does my mainsail. The convenience far outweighs any potential problems, IMHO. Fair winds, Steve S/V Options H380
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Allen
Same here..
I agree with Steve. I, too, have had roller furling on my boats since 1991 and I've never had mildew problems with the sails. Steve's in Texas, but our Florida climate is also very condusive to mildew. For a cruiser, I can't imagine being without roller furling for the ease of handling...and when you think about it, safety, too, in that you can "drop" the sail from the cockpit. It's great for single handing.
I agree with Steve. I, too, have had roller furling on my boats since 1991 and I've never had mildew problems with the sails. Steve's in Texas, but our Florida climate is also very condusive to mildew. For a cruiser, I can't imagine being without roller furling for the ease of handling...and when you think about it, safety, too, in that you can "drop" the sail from the cockpit. It's great for single handing.
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Trevor
Luff tension tip
If you have a newer headsail on a furler, it's a good idea to get into the habit of easing the jib halyard when leaving the boat unattended. Most folks stretch the luff of their headsails prematurely by leaving the halyard tensioned at all times. Just something to consider, Trevor
If you have a newer headsail on a furler, it's a good idea to get into the habit of easing the jib halyard when leaving the boat unattended. Most folks stretch the luff of their headsails prematurely by leaving the halyard tensioned at all times. Just something to consider, Trevor
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steven f.
yep
I agree with all three. I've had RF for many years, also in a very high heat/humidity area (SW Florida). Zero problems so far with the things you mentioned. Sail shape can be an issue during reefing but for me as a cruiser, when I reef I'm usually more into safety and comfort than speed and performance. One thing I see many people do that I disagree with is putting a huge sail on their RF than complain that when they reef their 155 down to a 110 their sail shape is crappy. I find that a 135 is about the largest sail I'd use on a RF system. Of course others will disagree but it is all according to your level of comfort and experience.
I agree with all three. I've had RF for many years, also in a very high heat/humidity area (SW Florida). Zero problems so far with the things you mentioned. Sail shape can be an issue during reefing but for me as a cruiser, when I reef I'm usually more into safety and comfort than speed and performance. One thing I see many people do that I disagree with is putting a huge sail on their RF than complain that when they reef their 155 down to a 110 their sail shape is crappy. I find that a 135 is about the largest sail I'd use on a RF system. Of course others will disagree but it is all according to your level of comfort and experience.
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Bob
No Brianer
Hi Bob, RF reliability and function are well proven. I use a 135 and completely satisfied = 0 problems with RF and genoa. I have a cruising spinnaker for real light air. Have more space below and not on deck making sail changes. Points made about mildew and sail shape may have happened but caused by abuse or happened more than 15 years ago. Today and for a long time, Sail lofts produce quality foam luffs that hold shape. You don't need to do a lot of research - pick any RF and then work with the sail loft. Suggest genoa 130 - 140. Have fun.
Hi Bob, RF reliability and function are well proven. I use a 135 and completely satisfied = 0 problems with RF and genoa. I have a cruising spinnaker for real light air. Have more space below and not on deck making sail changes. Points made about mildew and sail shape may have happened but caused by abuse or happened more than 15 years ago. Today and for a long time, Sail lofts produce quality foam luffs that hold shape. You don't need to do a lot of research - pick any RF and then work with the sail loft. Suggest genoa 130 - 140. Have fun.
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Jim LeBlanc
Agree with the above
I agree with all of the above comments, for cruising, roller furling is the only way to go. I also live in Texas (on the coast) and have never had mildue problems, whether furled wet or dry. You only need one head sail for cruising (I also have and like my cruising spinnaker for light winds) at about 135%. Will work well for most conditions and will furl decently down to 90% for heavy winds (also reef the main to keep the boat in balance). I bought my latest boat without roller furling, but added it ASAP.
I agree with all of the above comments, for cruising, roller furling is the only way to go. I also live in Texas (on the coast) and have never had mildue problems, whether furled wet or dry. You only need one head sail for cruising (I also have and like my cruising spinnaker for light winds) at about 135%. Will work well for most conditions and will furl decently down to 90% for heavy winds (also reef the main to keep the boat in balance). I bought my latest boat without roller furling, but added it ASAP.
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Don
Everyone agrees, that's good.
The only problems I have heard about with mildew, is with mylar sails that can't breathe like dacron. As for the foam luff pad, you will not be able to roll it tight enough to compress the foam. Never been a problem for me. I also agree that a 135 is a better all around sail, unless you are in a very light wind area.
The only problems I have heard about with mildew, is with mylar sails that can't breathe like dacron. As for the foam luff pad, you will not be able to roll it tight enough to compress the foam. Never been a problem for me. I also agree that a 135 is a better all around sail, unless you are in a very light wind area.
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Bob
An additional question
Thanks for the great input - you have made my decision much easier. Now to stir it up a little: you guys say a 135 is best, but because I like to do some low-key phrf lake (lots of light air days) racing, I need more headsail or will get smoked going downwind. Will a 150 work OK if I don't plan to furl it more than about 130 if the wind does get up? My boat is pretty solid and can carry quite a bit of sail in a breeze. I have no expectation of reefing down to 100. Also, what's the best UV protection route, and does color matter?
Thanks for the great input - you have made my decision much easier. Now to stir it up a little: you guys say a 135 is best, but because I like to do some low-key phrf lake (lots of light air days) racing, I need more headsail or will get smoked going downwind. Will a 150 work OK if I don't plan to furl it more than about 130 if the wind does get up? My boat is pretty solid and can carry quite a bit of sail in a breeze. I have no expectation of reefing down to 100. Also, what's the best UV protection route, and does color matter?
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Kevin
Using a 150
Bob, I have a CS27 which came with a 150 on RF. In winds above 15 knots I start to reef and have had it reefed to about as much as 110 or a bit lower in very strong winds. I have never noticed any problems with sail shape despite what all the experts say. When the wind is blowing hard and the boat is moving at hull speed, or a wee bit faster, sail shape doesn't even become a concern. But, if I was buying a new sail I'd go with a 135. The 150 is nice in light winds but gets hung up on the baby stay and spreaders when tacking. In stronger winds when close hauled it backwinds the main and I have to reef a couple of turns on the drum so I can open up the slot and get the foot of the sail inside the lifelines. Kevin
Bob, I have a CS27 which came with a 150 on RF. In winds above 15 knots I start to reef and have had it reefed to about as much as 110 or a bit lower in very strong winds. I have never noticed any problems with sail shape despite what all the experts say. When the wind is blowing hard and the boat is moving at hull speed, or a wee bit faster, sail shape doesn't even become a concern. But, if I was buying a new sail I'd go with a 135. The 150 is nice in light winds but gets hung up on the baby stay and spreaders when tacking. In stronger winds when close hauled it backwinds the main and I have to reef a couple of turns on the drum so I can open up the slot and get the foot of the sail inside the lifelines. Kevin
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Kevin
What weight are your 135s?
For you folks using a cruising 135 what is the weight of the sailcloth? The reason I ask is that my boat came with 2 150s and when I took one of them to Quantum to get a quote on recutting it to about 130-135 they told me the weight was too light for a number 2. Mine was 6.5 and they say a number 2 should be at least 8. They didn't seem to listen to me when I explained that I am using the 6.5 ounce sail reefed to the size of a 130, so what difference did it make. Thanks, Kevin
For you folks using a cruising 135 what is the weight of the sailcloth? The reason I ask is that my boat came with 2 150s and when I took one of them to Quantum to get a quote on recutting it to about 130-135 they told me the weight was too light for a number 2. Mine was 6.5 and they say a number 2 should be at least 8. They didn't seem to listen to me when I explained that I am using the 6.5 ounce sail reefed to the size of a 130, so what difference did it make. Thanks, Kevin
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Jim LeBlanc
Find another sailmaker
Kevin, You are right. If the sail cloth was strong enough for a 150, why is it too light for a cut-down to 130? I would find another sailmaker who will listen to you, instead of trying to sell you another sail.
Kevin, You are right. If the sail cloth was strong enough for a 150, why is it too light for a cut-down to 130? I would find another sailmaker who will listen to you, instead of trying to sell you another sail.
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Tim Stodola at Doyle Sails
May I Offer a Suggestion?
Usaually, 150% Genoas are of a lighter fabric than a 135%, which would be lighter than a 100% etc... However, Do not throw away that sail if it is in good condition to be cut down. Here is the Suggestion. When cutting down a lighter 150% Genoa to be used on a furler, I recommend using UV Stabilized Dacron instead of Sunbrella for the UV Protection. Being true Dacron Sailcloth, it adds strength to the leech and Foot of the sail and helps protect the sail shape when reefed. Secondly, it is lighter than Sunbrella, so the overall weight of the converted sail is lighter and will set better in lighter breeze. The Draw Back: UV Dacron, is a true sacrificial UV Protection, and will eventually need to be replaced, while Sunbrella will usually last the life of the sail. In the southern climes, you can expect 4 years, up north, much longer. But, the advantages of UV Dacron to sail shape and setting, generally outweigh the cost of replacement down the line.
Usaually, 150% Genoas are of a lighter fabric than a 135%, which would be lighter than a 100% etc... However, Do not throw away that sail if it is in good condition to be cut down. Here is the Suggestion. When cutting down a lighter 150% Genoa to be used on a furler, I recommend using UV Stabilized Dacron instead of Sunbrella for the UV Protection. Being true Dacron Sailcloth, it adds strength to the leech and Foot of the sail and helps protect the sail shape when reefed. Secondly, it is lighter than Sunbrella, so the overall weight of the converted sail is lighter and will set better in lighter breeze. The Draw Back: UV Dacron, is a true sacrificial UV Protection, and will eventually need to be replaced, while Sunbrella will usually last the life of the sail. In the southern climes, you can expect 4 years, up north, much longer. But, the advantages of UV Dacron to sail shape and setting, generally outweigh the cost of replacement down the line.
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Mike
Here's my suggestion
Make a cover to hoist over your furled jib, regardless of the UV protection on the jib cloth. That's what most furler-owners here do if they want to keep their sail for long. The sunbrella or UV dacron is not the optimal solution. I've not had mildew problems either, even with the cover.
Make a cover to hoist over your furled jib, regardless of the UV protection on the jib cloth. That's what most furler-owners here do if they want to keep their sail for long. The sunbrella or UV dacron is not the optimal solution. I've not had mildew problems either, even with the cover.
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Mike Andersen
Twenty Years - Still no mildew
Hi All, Even though I just bought my boat the previous owner (since 1981) says the sails are original. After twenty years there's no mildew. It's 130% genny. It's shows it's age and if I keep the boat I plan to replace it next season. A local sailmaker is repairing it for me now. It had one rip I saw from the deck. Turned out it has two more small rips in addition. The sailmaker suggested that there's probably something sharp in the rigging. Good reason to support your local sailmaker, you both get to look at the sails and discuss what's best to do.
Hi All, Even though I just bought my boat the previous owner (since 1981) says the sails are original. After twenty years there's no mildew. It's 130% genny. It's shows it's age and if I keep the boat I plan to replace it next season. A local sailmaker is repairing it for me now. It had one rip I saw from the deck. Turned out it has two more small rips in addition. The sailmaker suggested that there's probably something sharp in the rigging. Good reason to support your local sailmaker, you both get to look at the sails and discuss what's best to do.
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Norm Maguire
Roller Furler cover
Mike, I think a cover is a great idea. The previous owner of my boat(Hunter 19-1993) converted the sail to RF with no UV protection. Not a big deal, but a cover or sunbrella would be nice. You mentioned some of the owners in your area have had covers made. How does this work exactly? Does the cover slide over the furled sail? Is there an issue with the sheets half way up? Who manufactured the covers that you have seen? I have been pondering this for the past 8 weeks since my boat was finally launched. Assistance would be greatly appreciated.
Mike, I think a cover is a great idea. The previous owner of my boat(Hunter 19-1993) converted the sail to RF with no UV protection. Not a big deal, but a cover or sunbrella would be nice. You mentioned some of the owners in your area have had covers made. How does this work exactly? Does the cover slide over the furled sail? Is there an issue with the sheets half way up? Who manufactured the covers that you have seen? I have been pondering this for the past 8 weeks since my boat was finally launched. Assistance would be greatly appreciated.
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Jim LeBlanc
Sunbrella on the leach and foot
The usual solution is to have a sailmaker sew a strip of sunbrella colored fabric on one side of the jib along the foot and along the leach. Then, when you roller furl, the sunbrella will completely cover the sail cloth and keep it from being in the sun when not in use. Looks good too, since you usually use a color which matches the trim color of the boat. Don't wait too long to do something, untreated dacron will deteriorate quickly in hot sun conditions if not protected.
The usual solution is to have a sailmaker sew a strip of sunbrella colored fabric on one side of the jib along the foot and along the leach. Then, when you roller furl, the sunbrella will completely cover the sail cloth and keep it from being in the sun when not in use. Looks good too, since you usually use a color which matches the trim color of the boat. Don't wait too long to do something, untreated dacron will deteriorate quickly in hot sun conditions if not protected.
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Tim Stodola at Doyle Sails
Cover Vs Sleeve.
A seperate Sleeve to cover the rolled sails cost roughly the same as adding UV Cover directly to the sail. With a UV Cover, The sail is always ready to go, and you simply unfurl or furl when you are ready. The Sleeves will usually incorporate a full length zipper, and it must be raised using a spare halyard. Many racers such as some J boats use a sleeve to keep sail weight to a minimum, and they have either a 2nd Jib halyard or a spinnaker halyard to hoist the sleeve. The majority of cruisers go for the UV cover integral to the sail as the easiest solution. The sleeve must be stored after it's removed to go sailing.
A seperate Sleeve to cover the rolled sails cost roughly the same as adding UV Cover directly to the sail. With a UV Cover, The sail is always ready to go, and you simply unfurl or furl when you are ready. The Sleeves will usually incorporate a full length zipper, and it must be raised using a spare halyard. Many racers such as some J boats use a sleeve to keep sail weight to a minimum, and they have either a 2nd Jib halyard or a spinnaker halyard to hoist the sleeve. The majority of cruisers go for the UV cover integral to the sail as the easiest solution. The sleeve must be stored after it's removed to go sailing.
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J cianflone
Made a Sleeve
I recently installed a cdi unit on my h27 and made a sleeve for the sail myself. The sail I have was not worth the $350.00 for adding the uv cover directly to the sail. The sleeve was fairly easy to make. I used 3 twelve foot zippers on sunbrella fabric. As I raise the sleeve I zip it up at the same time. Nice thing is I can use this on my next sail if it does not already have the protection. I think Sailrite sells kits.
I recently installed a cdi unit on my h27 and made a sleeve for the sail myself. The sail I have was not worth the $350.00 for adding the uv cover directly to the sail. The sleeve was fairly easy to make. I used 3 twelve foot zippers on sunbrella fabric. As I raise the sleeve I zip it up at the same time. Nice thing is I can use this on my next sail if it does not already have the protection. I think Sailrite sells kits.
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Joe
Does the "sleeve" make a lot of racket...
...when the wind is up? I like the idea because it can apply to more than one sail, still, I wouldn't want to inconvenience my dock mates with 35 feet of flapping sunbrella all night.
...when the wind is up? I like the idea because it can apply to more than one sail, still, I wouldn't want to inconvenience my dock mates with 35 feet of flapping sunbrella all night.
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