roller furling and turnbuckle

[Digby]

I need some help. I bought a CDI roller furling for my O'Day 23 and also the turnbuckle described in the instructions - open body, secured with cotter pins - to replace the one on the lower end of the forestay. The only problem is: the threaded connection on the forestay is threaded the opposite direction from the turnbuckle - and does not have the hole for the cotter pin. Is there a way to get the new threaded end that came with the turnbuckle on the forestay - especially with it still attached to the boat? (I don't have a way to climb the mast and the mast is keel-stepped and the boat is in the water.)

Thanks for any suggestions/advice.

 

[Scott On Eagles Wings]

I am assuming you have tried this but I will suggest anyway. Did you try turning the turnbuckle the other way. I believe one end is reverse thread.
I however am not familiar with the CDI for we installed the shaefer and it fit over our existing forstay. Good luck

 

[Shoaldrafter]

Turnbuckles...

I am assuming you have tried this but I will suggest anyway. Did you try turning the turnbuckle the other way. I believe one end is reverse thread.
I however am not familiar with the CDI for we installed the shaefer and it fit over our existing forstay. Good luck

I second the motion to turn the turnbuckle over. Which side works with the Stay?

If all else fails, call CDI.

Ed K
26

 

[wnance]

I need some help. I bought a CDI roller furling for my O'Day 23 and also the turnbuckle described in the instructions - open body, secured with cotter pins - to replace the one on the lower end of the forestay. The only problem is: the threaded connection on the forestay is threaded the opposite direction from the turnbuckle - and does not have the hole for the cotter pin. Is there a way to get the new threaded end that came with the turnbuckle on the forestay - especially with it still attached to the boat? (I don't have a way to climb the mast and the mast is keel-stepped and the boat is in the water.)

Thanks for any suggestions/advice.

Was your old turnbuckle the kind with a locknut? If so, I don't believe that the threaded rod that's swaged to the existing forestay will work. We just installed CDI FF4 on our O'day 25, but we replaced our forestay in the process. Let us know how your CDI install goes once you get this figured out- I plan to post a thread soon on our experience. . .

Wes

 

[Joe11688]

I need some help. I bought a CDI roller furling for my O'Day 23 and also the turnbuckle described in the instructions - open body, secured with cotter pins - to replace the one on the lower end of the forestay. The only problem is: the threaded connection on the forestay is threaded the opposite direction from the turnbuckle - and does not have the hole for the cotter pin. Is there a way to get the new threaded end that came with the turnbuckle on the forestay - especially with it still attached to the boat? (I don't have a way to climb the mast and the mast is keel-stepped and the boat is in the water.)

Thanks for any suggestions/advice.

You should be able to use your Jib halyard for a temporary head stay by attaching it to the stem plate, pulling out the slack, and cleating it off at the mast. At some point in the CDI luff installation, you will need to do that anyway. All you need to do is figure out a way to go up the mast and remove the stay from the mast tang. I take it, you own a mast head rig. I really don't know what to tell you about the turnbuckle. You'll have a better idea of what to do to it when you are able to get it down. As long as the turnbuckles have toggles at both ends. The furler has a tendency to move a lot, and T ball fittings in a mast won't work too long until they break off. I'm sure your mast has tangs, but mine didn't. I had to install one for my head stay. I also installed a 5" tang on my headstay plate to make room for my anchor roller under my furler drum. You wouldn't believe the Mickey Mousing I did on my boat for my furler. I ran a lot of my ideas on it through Rudy Nickerson of D&R Marine before I did anything because I was kind of new at installing my CDI Furler. It all worked out well for me though. Good luck!
Joe

 

[Digby]

I am assuming you have tried this but I will suggest anyway. Did you try turning the turnbuckle the other way. I believe one end is reverse thread.
I however am not familiar with the CDI for we installed the shaefer and it fit over our existing forstay. Good luck

Hi Scott, thanks for the suggestion. Yes, we did try turning the turnbuckle the other way and it did fit on the forestay - but then - the other end was reverse threaded for the connecter that was supposed to attach to the boat. So we didn't get anywhere. The CDI is supposed to fit over the existing forestay but the instructions had all kinds of warnings about the closed barrel turnbuckle with hex locking nuts as coming unthreaded with the rotation of the roller drum.

 

[Digby]

Was your old turnbuckle the kind with a locknut? If so, I don't believe that the threaded rod that's swaged to the existing forestay will work. We just installed CDI FF4 on our O'day 25, but we replaced our forestay in the process. Let us know how your CDI install goes once you get this figured out- I plan to post a thread soon on our experience. . .

Wes

Hi Wes, it sounds like we both ran into the same problem. I have the exact turnbuckle you described. Looks like I'm going to get the thrill of going up the mast to get that forestay down. Arrrgh!

 

[Digby]

You should be able to use your Jib halyard for a temporary head stay by attaching it to the stem plate, pulling out the slack, and cleating it off at the mast. At some point in the CDI luff installation, you will need to do that anyway. All you need to do is figure out a way to go up the mast and remove the stay from the mast tang. I take it, you own a mast head rig. I really don't know what to tell you about the turnbuckle. You'll have a better idea of what to do to it when you are able to get it down. As long as the turnbuckles have toggles at both ends. The furler has a tendency to move a lot, and T ball fittings in a mast won't work too long until they break off. I'm sure your mast has tangs, but mine didn't. I had to install one for my head stay. I also installed a 5" tang on my headstay plate to make room for my anchor roller under my furler drum. You wouldn't believe the Mickey Mousing I did on my boat for my furler. I ran a lot of my ideas on it through Rudy Nickerson of D&R Marine before I did anything because I was kind of new at installing my CDI Furler. It all worked out well for me though. Good luck!
Joe

Joe, I'm glad you finally got your CDI to work. Yes, my mast has tangs, and it's a fractional rig, and I did figure out to attach the jub halyard and to ease the backstay just to keep everything stable while I had everything apart. But it was a great day for a sail, so I put the old turnbuckle back on but with the new furler. The boltrope went in well, it's just slow to get the jib down, and it's a discontent to go sailing knowing that a brand new perfectly good roller is down in the salon still in the box! Should I order a shorter forestay and go with tangs to the headstay plate just to get a little more room off the deck?

 

[Joe11688]

Joe, I'm glad you finally got your CDI to work. Yes, my mast has tangs, and it's a fractional rig, and I did figure out to attach the jub halyard and to ease the backstay just to keep everything stable while I had everything apart. But it was a great day for a sail, so I put the old turnbuckle back on but with the new furler. The boltrope went in well, it's just slow to get the jib down, and it's a discontent to go sailing knowing that a brand new perfectly good roller is down in the salon still in the box! Should I order a shorter forestay and go with tangs to the headstay plate just to get a little more room off the deck?

I really don't know what to tell you on that one David. You see,--I had a 125% Gennie that was still in good condition when I installed my furler, and I needed to have this sail converted over to fit the furler and also have the UV shield installed on the sail. As it turned out, the guy at Thurston Sails in Bristol RI had to cut my sail down so that it could fit my new stay length. I lost some sail area but it was worth it because of the room that I gained to be able to work my anchor on the roller under the furler drum. I anchor under sail about 99% of the time and it's well worth the sacrifice of a little speed to have no hindrance with the furler. If you're going to convert a Jib over it won't really matter, but if you have a Gennie you may have to have it cut down like I did. If you have a fractional rig, you may be able to put a ladder up against the mast inside the spreaders and figure a way to tie it to the mast so it won't fall on you. I've done this on my boat to work on the spreader boots that I made one day last year. You need to be real careful when you do it. Just tie that ladder off real good. I have a mast winch on my Z-Spar Mast. Years ago, I asked this guy on the dock to winch me up my mast so that I could straighten out my Windex at the top of my mast. I had it backward with the vanes pointing forward and it bothered me. Of course, I wasn't as heavy back then as I am today, but I did it with no problem. The only thing about going up on a chair on boats our size is, you don't know if the mast sheave is plastic or nylon and if it will take the weight. The 5/16" halyard should take it if it's in good condition. It may be worth your while to replace your forestay if you're not going to mount an anchor roller. When you get ready to fit the luff to the stay, you should be able to just slide the luff up the stay without mess with anything near the tang on the mast. What the heck, just get out and use the boat for now and mess with that later. Take every precaution if you decide to climb the mast. It's better to spend a few bucks than to risk getting hurt. Good luck with that David.
Joe

 

[Digby]

I really don't know what to tell you on that one David. You see,--I had a 125% Gennie that was still in good condition when I installed my furler, and I needed to have this sail converted over to fit the furler and also have the UV shield installed on the sail. As it turned out, the guy at Thurston Sails in Bristol RI had to cut my sail down so that it could fit my new stay length. I lost some sail area but it was worth it because of the room that I gained to be able to work my anchor on the roller under the furler drum. I anchor under sail about 99% of the time and it's well worth the sacrifice of a little speed to have no hindrance with the furler. If you're going to convert a Jib over it won't really matter, but if you have a Gennie you may have to have it cut down like I did. If you have a fractional rig, you may be able to put a ladder up against the mast inside the spreaders and figure a way to tie it to the mast so it won't fall on you. I've done this on my boat to work on the spreader boots that I made one day last year. You need to be real careful when you do it. Just tie that ladder off real good. I have a mast winch on my Z-Spar Mast. Years ago, I asked this guy on the dock to winch me up my mast so that I could straighten out my Windex at the top of my mast. I had it backward with the vanes pointing forward and it bothered me. Of course, I wasn't as heavy back then as I am today, but I did it with no problem. The only thing about going up on a chair on boats our size is, you don't know if the mast sheave is plastic or nylon and if it will take the weight. The 5/16" halyard should take it if it's in good condition. It may be worth your while to replace your forestay if you're not going to mount an anchor roller. When you get ready to fit the luff to the stay, you should be able to just slide the luff up the stay without mess with anything near the tang on the mast. What the heck, just get out and use the boat for now and mess with that later. Take every precaution if you decide to climb the mast. It's better to spend a few bucks than to risk getting hurt. Good luck with that David.
Joe

What you say, Joe, makes total sense to me. I am sure glad I won't have to go up as high as the Windex! I hadn't thought about the sheave on the mast, hmmm, that bears some further investigation.

The marina where Serendipity lives has a skyhook which they use to step masts. What do you think about seeing if I could tie up at the dock and they could scoot me up there high enough to untoggle the forestay and put on my new (as yet unpurchased) forestay? Ever heard of something like that?

 

[Joe11688]

What you say, Joe, makes total sense to me. I am sure glad I won't have to go up as high as the Windex! I hadn't thought about the sheave on the mast, hmmm, that bears some further investigation.

The marina where Serendipity lives has a skyhook which they use to step masts. What do you think about seeing if I could tie up at the dock and they could scoot me up there high enough to untoggle the forestay and put on my new (as yet unpurchased) forestay? Ever heard of something like that?[/quote]
Why certainly! This is known as "thinking outside of the box." I do this all the time, myself. The big question is, will they allow you to do it or will they have one of their guys do it for liability reasons? either way you may be able to get it done though. Outside of that, if you know somebody who owns a "cherry picker" you've got it knocked.
When I used our YC Aluminum ladder last year to climb my mast, I was able to reach through the rungs of the ladder and grab hold of the mast as I climbed up the ladder. When I got to the spreaders, I took the rope sling that I had brought up with me and tied the ladder off to the mast so it wouldn't move. I had a guy holding the ladder down below me. It was doable for me, but like everything else you need to be extra careful. I guess that doing this kind of a thing is easy for me to say because of the fact that I climbed poles for a living back in the late 1960s through the 1990s when I worked for a power company. Today I shudder when I think back of all the 35',40', and 45' poles that I had to climb, particularly a few 70' wooden poles with lights on them that were too high to reach with a bucket. Thank God for retirement! I promise to never complain about being a "Geezer." Good luck with that!
Joe

 

[Digby]

What you say, Joe, makes total sense to me. I am sure glad I won't have to go up as high as the Windex! I hadn't thought about the sheave on the mast, hmmm, that bears some further investigation.

The marina where Serendipity lives has a skyhook which they use to step masts. What do you think about seeing if I could tie up at the dock and they could scoot me up there high enough to untoggle the forestay and put on my new (as yet unpurchased) forestay? Ever heard of something like that?[/quote]
Why certainly! This is known as "thinking outside of the box." I do this all the time, myself. The big question is, will they allow you to do it or will they have one of their guys do it for liability reasons? either way you may be able to get it done though. Outside of that, if you know somebody who owns a "cherry picker" you've got it knocked.
When I used our YC Aluminum ladder last year to climb my mast, I was able to reach through the rungs of the ladder and grab hold of the mast as I climbed up the ladder. When I got to the spreaders, I took the rope sling that I had brought up with me and tied the ladder off to the mast so it wouldn't move. I had a guy holding the ladder down below me. It was doable for me, but like everything else you need to be extra careful. I guess that doing this kind of a thing is easy for me to say because of the fact that I climbed poles for a living back in the late 1960s through the 1990s when I worked for a power company. Today I shudder when I think back of all the 35',40', and 45' poles that I had to climb, particularly a few 70' wooden poles with lights on them that were too high to reach with a bucket. Thank God for retirement! I promise to never complain about being a "Geezer." Good luck with that!
Joe

Excellent. I can see myself scooching up the mast via alum extension ladder, security lines dangling ready to be secured around the mast and remembering, "One hand for the boat, one for the task" all the way. As I think about it, Joe, it seems the ladder may be safer than the cherry picker/skyhook since it will move and "breathe" with the boat. I never worked for a power company but I was a lightbulb changer (campus job) in college which got me into some crazy high places... never 70' though.

I'd be ready to order that new headstay except that I left the measurements on the boat - 70 miles from home - and have commitments this afternoon which keep me from going down there for a quick sail and retrieval.

Sounds like a plan. Everyone has been most helpful. O'Day people must be as easy to get along with as George built his boats. Thanks!

 

[Joe11688]

I'm glad that I was able to be of some help to you David. Just be careful when you go up that mast because if you get killed you'll never speak to me again. Only kidding!

 

[Sambo]

I need some help. I bought a CDI roller furling for my O'Day 23 and also the turnbuckle described in the instructions - open body, secured with cotter pins - to replace the one on the lower end of the forestay. The only problem is: the threaded connection on the forestay is threaded the opposite direction from the turnbuckle - and does not have the hole for the cotter pin. Is there a way to get the new threaded end that came with the turnbuckle on the forestay - especially with it still attached to the boat? (I don't have a way to climb the mast and the mast is keel-stepped and the boat is in the water.)

Thanks for any suggestions/advice.

I don't quite understand the turnbuckle / threading part of your predicament, but our 1980 shoal keel O'Day 23 is stepped forward by releasing the rear stay, side shrouds and rear hinge plate pin and we do it while it's in the slip - takes at least three (2 fairly strong) people, but we can't do it until it's out of the crane mechanism. Watch for overhead wires. What brand / type of roller furler did you choose and why? I'm seriously considering one because we snapped our mast last weekend in a heavy gusting downwind run with a full genoa. A roller would probably have encouraged us to reduce the jib and prevented the incident.

 

[Digby]

I don't quite understand the turnbuckle / threading part of your predicament, but our 1980 shoal keel O'Day 23 is stepped forward by releasing the rear stay, side shrouds and rear hinge plate pin and we do it while it's in the slip - takes at least three (2 fairly strong) people, but we can't do it until it's out of the crane mechanism. Watch for overhead wires. What brand / type of roller furler did you choose and why? I'm seriously considering one because we snapped our mast last weekend in a heavy gusting downwind run with a full genoa. A roller would probably have encouraged us to reduce the jib and prevented the incident.

I can answer at least part of the situation. My boat is keel stepped. It sounds like yours is deck stepped and I WISH there were some kind of way for me to step the mast myself. The marina's charges just doubled this year. The only advantage to the keel step is that the mast is probably stronger.

I am so sorry to hear about your mast! I can hardly imagine what that felt like. How did you get back to shore?

The roller furler I bought is a CDI FF 2, which is recommended for our size boat. I can't see why deck or keel step of the mast would make any difference to the furler or the turnbuckles attaching the forestay to the deck plate. The turnbuckle I bought is an Alexander-Roberts TSO40808 (1/8" wire size)

The reason I chose the CDI is that a very knowledgeable sailor friend of mine recommended it, I have seen other boats with CDI's, it is reasonably priced. The Sail Warehouse recommends 3 brands: Harkin, CDI, and ProFurl. They have a good description of the pros and cons of each.

So, have you had to buy a new mast?

 

[Digby]

I'm glad that I was able to be of some help to you David. Just be careful when you go up that mast because if you get killed you'll never speak to me again. Only kidding!

Here's to hoping we have many and long conversations!

 

[Joe11688]

I can answer at least part of the situation. My boat is keel stepped. It sounds like yours is deck stepped and I WISH there were some kind of way for me to step the mast myself. The marina's charges just doubled this year. The only advantage to the keel step is that the mast is probably stronger.

I am so sorry to hear about your mast! I can hardly imagine what that felt like. How did you get back to shore?

The roller furler I bought is a CDI FF 2, which is recommended for our size boat. I can't see why deck or keel step of the mast would make any difference to the furler or the turnbuckles attaching the forestay to the deck plate. The turnbuckle I bought is an Alexander-Roberts TSO40808 (1/8" wire size)

The reason I chose the CDI is that a very knowledgeable sailor friend of mine recommended it, I have seen other boats with CDI's, it is reasonably priced. The Sail Warehouse recommends 3 brands: Harkin, CDI, and ProFurl. They have a good description of the pros and cons of each.

So, have you had to buy a new mast?

David,
You had mentioned that your 23 has a keel stepped mast. I was talking to a salesman in West Marine in my area several years ago who told me that he made up an "A" frame out of aluminum spars that enables him to step the mast on his J-24, which is also keel stepped. I asked him how high the A frame was and he said about 18'. It's something you may want to look into. I think he used a block and tackle with it, but I'm not sure. I bet that a small boat winch would work with it also. A small rope sling noose at the end of the cable or blocks, could slide right up the mast as far as the spreaders and give the mast enough balance so that it wouldn't be too top heavy, but very manageable. It's just something to think about.
Joe

 

[Digby]

David,
You had mentioned that your 23 has a keel stepped mast. I was talking to a salesman in West Marine in my area several years ago who told me that he made up an "A" frame out of aluminum spars that enables him to step the mast on his J-24, which is also keel stepped. I asked him how high the A frame was and he said about 18'. It's something you may want to look into. I think he used a block and tackle with it, but I'm not sure. I bet that a small boat winch would work with it also. A small rope sling noose at the end of the cable or blocks, could slide right up the mast as far as the spreaders and give the mast enough balance so that it wouldn't be too top heavy, but very manageable. It's just something to think about.
Joe

Yes, that IS somthing to think about. I'll forward your idea to an engineer friend of mine and see what he can come up with as to angles and rigging. I'd love to be able to step my own mast. That one's a keeper. Thanks.

Going sailing in the little Man-O-War tomorrow, then on the O'Day on Tuesday. Yea.

 

[Joe11688]

Yes, that IS somthing to think about. I'll forward your idea to an engineer friend of mine and see what he can come up with as to angles and rigging. I'd love to be able to step my own mast. That one's a keeper. Thanks.

Going sailing in the little Man-O-War tomorrow, then on the O'Day on Tuesday. Yea.

Here's another idea that you may want to think about. You could probably cut your mast and install a stainless steel hinged tabernacle to both pieces of the mast, making the lower part permanently fixed to the keel step. They do this to day sailers all the time. I'd be happy to send you all the info and pics I have on my mast raising/lowering Gin Pole. This would be the way that I would go, myself. You could raise/lower your mast with the furler attached all by yourself with my setup. It's something to think about.
Joe

 

[Digby]

Here's another idea that you may want to think about. You could probably cut your mast and install a stainless steel hinged tabernacle to both pieces of the mast, making the lower part permanently fixed to the keel step. They do this to day sailers all the time. I'd be happy to send you all the info and pics I have on my mast raising/lowering Gin Pole. This would be the way that I would go, myself. You could raise/lower your mast with the furler attached all by yourself with my setup. It's something to think about.
Joe

OMG! CUT the mast. Shudder. Horrors. But, OTOH, hmmm. You say they do this all the time? On the face of it it sounds interesting. I like the idea of raising/lowering it by myself a lot. Doesn't it introduce lots of engineering issues that I can't yet imagine?

I talked to the folks at CDI and am going to have another go at making the new turnbuckle work. I tried to climb the mast yesterday but it got really wild up there (there was a breeze) and I chickened out. I'd never have thought of cutting the mast. What do others think of that idea?