Wow. Were you caught in a tropical storm, or did something else generate this wind?
Rocna, yes or no?
- Thread starter Florida sail
- Start date
- Status
Don,
There is not a single report of a NZ or Canadian made Rocna with Bis 80 bending. They sold thousands of them.. The only ones that bent were in 400Mpa steel or stainless. I would not let it worry you. Normally the bottom will give long before the shank will bend. Any anchor can bend, I have seen examples of almost all types bent, but a bending Rocna or Manson Supreme, of the proper steel, are basically non-existent at this point in time..
Gunni,
You are beginning to scare me...
No Manson Supreme owner I know, and I know lots, are willing to use the "rock slot" for general anchoring, including myself and I too own a Manson Supreme. They were intended for anchoring in areas where retrieval might be tough due to rocks or coral. That said I would still use my trip line on the hoop long before I ever used my "rock slot"...
This was from a huge, long lasting thunderhead which blew over the island, of course at night...I had the wheel off as we had been diving a lot and it was easier to get past while carrying tanks. I got the snubber off, but then the tension on the chain was so high that I couldn't get it off the cleat in the anchor locker. Had the snubber remained on, this probably wouldn't have happened.
-- Geoff
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his bunk, asleep -- not screaming, like the anchorwatch!Gunni,
You are beginning to scare me...
That said I would still use my trip line on the hoop long before I ever used my "rock slot"...
Hey Guys don't get so touchy.
I started out to see what it would take in the way of a sideways pull to bend a Rocna with inferior steel and was amazed to discover it can easily be bent at 90° even when made of the correct steel.
The inferior Bisplate 40 equivalent only requires half the force.
I was not knocking Rocna because their steel is just the same as everyone else's so, IMHO, all anchors are susceptible to being bent if they lodge under something solid which prevents them from turning to follow the boat.
In passing I note that manufacturers place great store on their anchor's ability to reset after the boat turns so they must also consider what might happen if it doesn't turn.
Geoff - Nice job on the stemhead fitting!! Are you glad or sorry the anchor didn't move? I would wager it was foul.
Having just spent much of today turning up a new bow roller for my pal's H36 I can confirm it is 3 1/2" wide - plenty wide enough for my suggested 2" wide separation of twin 1/4"; plate shanks.
I started out to see what it would take in the way of a sideways pull to bend a Rocna with inferior steel and was amazed to discover it can easily be bent at 90° even when made of the correct steel.
The inferior Bisplate 40 equivalent only requires half the force.
I was not knocking Rocna because their steel is just the same as everyone else's so, IMHO, all anchors are susceptible to being bent if they lodge under something solid which prevents them from turning to follow the boat.
In passing I note that manufacturers place great store on their anchor's ability to reset after the boat turns so they must also consider what might happen if it doesn't turn.
Geoff - Nice job on the stemhead fitting!! Are you glad or sorry the anchor didn't move? I would wager it was foul.
Having just spent much of today turning up a new bow roller for my pal's H36 I can confirm it is 3 1/2" wide - plenty wide enough for my suggested 2" wide separation of twin 1/4"; plate shanks.
It wasn't foul; clean sand. The issue is that we sail big-time at anchor and were getting rolled heavily side to side when the anchor chain got tight. What really sucked was that we had just had the boat Awl-Gripped in Grenada and the chain raked over the new paint job. Oh well, it's only money...
Personally I was VERY glad that we didn't move. The CQR was VERY hard to retrieve.
-- Geoff
Hi Mainesail!
A couple of thoughts about the Rocna/Manson debate and a question....
We have a bunch of Rocnas in our club (Maine Hunter Sailing Association) and we all love them, never an issue with bending... I think that is unlikely if the anchor can turn...
One of our members bought a a Manson for his 33.5 and had to return it and get a Rocna because the Manson didn't fit in his bow roller-check carefully if you're shopping for one.
I'd be concerned about the rock slot on the Manson. it has to weaken the shaft--but there are other options for getting a stuck anchor up, including a buoy line on the back of the anchor...
Maybe you can come up with the name-I think it's called something like anchor retriever-made by a local guy in Maine-I installed one on escape, it's worked great in testing-I've never had to use it in anger ;-)
This device adds a lock collar above your anchor with a small chain back to the flukes. anchor nomally. If you get stuck, the second part of the retriever clamps around your rode with a recovery line. you get directly above the anchor and lower the retriever-it hooks onto the piece attached to your anchor. When you slck the rode and pull up on the recovery line the small chain transfers the lifting effort to the back of the anchor and it pulls back out-slick!
A couple of thoughts about the Rocna/Manson debate and a question....
We have a bunch of Rocnas in our club (Maine Hunter Sailing Association) and we all love them, never an issue with bending... I think that is unlikely if the anchor can turn...
One of our members bought a a Manson for his 33.5 and had to return it and get a Rocna because the Manson didn't fit in his bow roller-check carefully if you're shopping for one.
I'd be concerned about the rock slot on the Manson. it has to weaken the shaft--but there are other options for getting a stuck anchor up, including a buoy line on the back of the anchor...
Maybe you can come up with the name-I think it's called something like anchor retriever-made by a local guy in Maine-I installed one on escape, it's worked great in testing-I've never had to use it in anger ;-)
This device adds a lock collar above your anchor with a small chain back to the flukes. anchor nomally. If you get stuck, the second part of the retriever clamps around your rode with a recovery line. you get directly above the anchor and lower the retriever-it hooks onto the piece attached to your anchor. When you slck the rode and pull up on the recovery line the small chain transfers the lifting effort to the back of the anchor and it pulls back out-slick!
The Manson has a shorter shaft, less lever, and more material in it than a comparable Rocna. Also the Manson is built with Bis Plate 80 something the new Rocna's only dream about..
Manson got so sick of the bashing they took from Rocna they posed a video recorded challenge, in a certified test machine. They were going to tested to failure with load cells recording everything it was going to include bending loads but the only catch was the anchors had to be supplied by the local retail distribution.. After all their chest thumping about being the "superior anchor" Rocna chickened out.....
Bwak, bwak.........Those work pretty well...
So let me ask this then. We just added a 35 lb Manson Supreme to our 12,000 lb (loaded weight) Hunter 336. We got tired of dragging our old CQR during thunderstorms. It's a moderately light displacement boat that sails wildly at anchor when the winds pipe up. Should we have any worries about the Manson breaking loose if the boat is doing 120 degree arcs in 40 knots of wind? We have firm sand bottoms here, occassionally covered with a layer of soft mud. From past experience with our CQR, we're terrified of leaving the boat and going ashore if we see thunderheads anywhere close by. We never knew where we would find it afterwards.
You are a candidate for more chain in your rode, maybe even all chain - dampens swing. The manson will reset itself more reliably than a CQR.
We've been cruising with our 45lb Manson Supreme for 6 months now. Recently we spent a week in Miami Beach in a crowded spot. Put out a 4:1 scope on our 45lb with 5/16 chain for our 30000 lb boat. Current reversed twice a day in this narrow cut hard by a causeway bridge, wind piped up into the hi 20k a few times, we never moved and the shank did not bend.
Robert,
You are correct in being anxious about your anchor. But, provided it does not get stuck in anything where it cannot realign with the pull on the chain, IMHO you are most unlikely to bend the shank and could not have a better anchor. These hoop type anchors reset very well if broken out but one would expect your boat to walk gently downwind on every sideways pull.
You can only guess what is down there and if there is a rock or some other man made obstruction.
Problem is that, with such violent yaws you are a menace to everyone, including yourself.
Much better not to yaw so much - but Hunters are notorious for this.
Some say they get an improvement using a stabilising sail at the aft end of the boom and hoisted on their topping lift or main halyard with the boom guyed to the cabin top handrails to stop it swinging.
I have used a second anchor on a very short scope just deeper than the max water depth to be expected.
Though not 'set' in the conventional sense, it has provided enough drag to prevent the rhythmic yawing.
You are correct in being anxious about your anchor. But, provided it does not get stuck in anything where it cannot realign with the pull on the chain, IMHO you are most unlikely to bend the shank and could not have a better anchor. These hoop type anchors reset very well if broken out but one would expect your boat to walk gently downwind on every sideways pull.
You can only guess what is down there and if there is a rock or some other man made obstruction.
Problem is that, with such violent yaws you are a menace to everyone, including yourself.
Much better not to yaw so much - but Hunters are notorious for this.
Some say they get an improvement using a stabilising sail at the aft end of the boom and hoisted on their topping lift or main halyard with the boom guyed to the cabin top handrails to stop it swinging.
I have used a second anchor on a very short scope just deeper than the max water depth to be expected.
Though not 'set' in the conventional sense, it has provided enough drag to prevent the rhythmic yawing.
We've tried the second anchor, we've tried a bridle to a midship cleat. We've also heard using a small drogue on the rode helps. The only way to truly fix the problem is to anchor by the stern, but that's a whole 'nuther discussion. Someday I'll figure out a good way to do it though.
Our Freedom sails big-time at anchor. We look it as we get good views of the anchorage!
We've tried the bridle, riding sail and quite a few other suggestions, but none have really worked. From what I've been able to tell, we have too much windage in front of the mast due the camber spar. Sorry, no answers...just an understanding.-- Geoff
This explains what's going on, and how to fix it.
http://www.jordanseriesdrogue.com/D_14.htm
Unfortunately, I haven't come up with a good way to do it.
http://www.jordanseriesdrogue.com/D_14.htm
Unfortunately, I haven't come up with a good way to do it.
- Status