The admiralty has its home office in Pittsburgh, so we travel up there quite often. I rarely see sailboats on the three rivers. There is a lot of recreational boat activity, but almost exclusively power. The rivers are wide and deep and the numerous bridges high enough. Could it be that the current is too strong or too flakey? Maybe it's the way the wind works through the mountains (hills). What makes river sailing undesirable in some places but not in others? Pittsburgh is a charming city, particularly if you experienced its transformation post heavy steel era. When we get to talking about relocating there, the one question that doesn't have an answer is "what would we do with the boat?"
River sailing
- Thread starter T37 Phil
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I dunno...
...about sailing on the Three Rives - may be just fine. But it's two hours from downtown 'Burgh to Lake Erie. That wouldn't be too bad....
...about sailing on the Three Rives - may be just fine. But it's two hours from downtown 'Burgh to Lake Erie. That wouldn't be too bad....
got this from the US corps of engineers Pittsburg
http://www.lrp.usace.army.mil/nav/nav.htm Navigation Who Uses the Rivers? Why We Need Locks & Dams How Locks & Dams Work Locking Through Navigation Notices Navigation Charts Navigation Links From the days of wooden wicket dams to today's modern technology, improving and maintaining the navigability of our nation's waterways has been a priority for the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. The Pittsburgh District operates 23 locks & dams on the Allegheny, Monongahela & Ohio Rivers. Locks & Dams Allegheny River Monongahela River Ohio River Lock & Dam 2, Allegheny River C.W. Bill Young Lock & Dam Lock & Dam 4, Allegheny River Lock & Dam 5, Allegheny River Lock & Dam 6, Allegheny River Lock & Dam 7, Allegheny River Lock & Dam 8, Allegheny River Lock & Dam 9, Allegheny River Braddock Locks & Dam Locks & Dam 3, Mon River Locks & Dam 4, Mon River Maxwell Locks & Dam Grays Landing Lock & Dam Point Marion Lock & Dam Morgantown Lock & Dam Hildebrand Lock & Dam Opekiska Lock & Dam Emsworth Locks & Dams Dashields Locks & Dam Montgomery Locks & Dam New Cumberland Locks & Dam Pike Island Locks & Dam Hannibal Locks & Dam Map of Pittsburgh District Locks & Dams Who Uses the Rivers? Navigation systems across the United States and especially in this region significantly contributed to the growth and economic prosperity of our Nation. For centuries settlers in the upper Ohio River basin used the system of rivers in the Pittsburgh region to expand commerce and industrial enterprise. However, it was not until 1824 that Congress tasked the Corps of Engineers with improving navigation on the Ohio River. Dedicated in 1885, Davis Island Lock and Dam, was the first of 53 Ohio River locks and dams, built over a 44 year period, descending from Pittsburgh to Cairo, Illinois. In 1893 the Corps opened a permanent office in Pittsburgh with the mission of improving navigation on the Allegheny and Monongahela Rivers. Today, Pittsburgh District’s navigation system includes 23 locks and dams on the Allegheny, Monongahela and Ohio Rivers. In support of this system, the District also operates a major warehouse and repair facility located on Neville Island, housing a repair fleet responsible for major maintenance work on the locks and dams. Eight locks and dams on the Allegheny River provide 72 miles of slack-water navigation from the Point at Pittsburgh to above East Brady, Pennsylvania. Nine locks and dams on the Monongahela River maintain navigable waters for the entire 128.7 miles of the river from just above Fairmont, West Virginia to the Point at Pittsburgh. Six locks and dams on the Ohio River provide navigable waters from the Point at Pittsburgh for 127.2 miles of the river downstream to New Martinsville, West Virginia. The three rivers that make up the Port of Pittsburgh are used to carry raw materials, bulk and manufactured goods for many industries in the region. The Port of Pittsburgh is the 2nd busiest inland port and the 17th busiest port of any kind in the nation I don't see any reason to not sail on those rivers.
http://www.lrp.usace.army.mil/nav/nav.htm Navigation Who Uses the Rivers? Why We Need Locks & Dams How Locks & Dams Work Locking Through Navigation Notices Navigation Charts Navigation Links From the days of wooden wicket dams to today's modern technology, improving and maintaining the navigability of our nation's waterways has been a priority for the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. The Pittsburgh District operates 23 locks & dams on the Allegheny, Monongahela & Ohio Rivers. Locks & Dams Allegheny River Monongahela River Ohio River Lock & Dam 2, Allegheny River C.W. Bill Young Lock & Dam Lock & Dam 4, Allegheny River Lock & Dam 5, Allegheny River Lock & Dam 6, Allegheny River Lock & Dam 7, Allegheny River Lock & Dam 8, Allegheny River Lock & Dam 9, Allegheny River Braddock Locks & Dam Locks & Dam 3, Mon River Locks & Dam 4, Mon River Maxwell Locks & Dam Grays Landing Lock & Dam Point Marion Lock & Dam Morgantown Lock & Dam Hildebrand Lock & Dam Opekiska Lock & Dam Emsworth Locks & Dams Dashields Locks & Dam Montgomery Locks & Dam New Cumberland Locks & Dam Pike Island Locks & Dam Hannibal Locks & Dam Map of Pittsburgh District Locks & Dams Who Uses the Rivers? Navigation systems across the United States and especially in this region significantly contributed to the growth and economic prosperity of our Nation. For centuries settlers in the upper Ohio River basin used the system of rivers in the Pittsburgh region to expand commerce and industrial enterprise. However, it was not until 1824 that Congress tasked the Corps of Engineers with improving navigation on the Ohio River. Dedicated in 1885, Davis Island Lock and Dam, was the first of 53 Ohio River locks and dams, built over a 44 year period, descending from Pittsburgh to Cairo, Illinois. In 1893 the Corps opened a permanent office in Pittsburgh with the mission of improving navigation on the Allegheny and Monongahela Rivers. Today, Pittsburgh District’s navigation system includes 23 locks and dams on the Allegheny, Monongahela and Ohio Rivers. In support of this system, the District also operates a major warehouse and repair facility located on Neville Island, housing a repair fleet responsible for major maintenance work on the locks and dams. Eight locks and dams on the Allegheny River provide 72 miles of slack-water navigation from the Point at Pittsburgh to above East Brady, Pennsylvania. Nine locks and dams on the Monongahela River maintain navigable waters for the entire 128.7 miles of the river from just above Fairmont, West Virginia to the Point at Pittsburgh. Six locks and dams on the Ohio River provide navigable waters from the Point at Pittsburgh for 127.2 miles of the river downstream to New Martinsville, West Virginia. The three rivers that make up the Port of Pittsburgh are used to carry raw materials, bulk and manufactured goods for many industries in the region. The Port of Pittsburgh is the 2nd busiest inland port and the 17th busiest port of any kind in the nation I don't see any reason to not sail on those rivers.
Drew, You must be a lot younger than I because I
consider 2 hours a long trip to go some where to play. From the link I just posted, You can see that anyone within a half hour of a landing on any of those rivers could have some fine sailing. An engine would be a must and care must be given to avoiding sailing off the edge.
consider 2 hours a long trip to go some where to play. From the link I just posted, You can see that anyone within a half hour of a landing on any of those rivers could have some fine sailing. An engine would be a must and care must be given to avoiding sailing off the edge.
Tick Tock
Erie, PA? Presque Isle? We're 15-20 minutes from our dock now and I can sneak out often enough when schedules align for short sails or just to putter about. At this point in our lives a two hour drive would be like a death sentence (and with the bits and pieces on the ends I bet it's more like 2-1/2 to 3 hours). We'd be lucky to make the trip once a month. Ross, I wonder if all those locks and dams make it difficult to put together an extended sail without considerable fuss. I'm not too familiar with the rivers outside of the triangle area itself. Even if the nearest obstructions are many miles away, I'd imagine that just a few knots of current would make the upstream leg somewhat trying (or noisy with the motor on).
Erie, PA? Presque Isle? We're 15-20 minutes from our dock now and I can sneak out often enough when schedules align for short sails or just to putter about. At this point in our lives a two hour drive would be like a death sentence (and with the bits and pieces on the ends I bet it's more like 2-1/2 to 3 hours). We'd be lucky to make the trip once a month. Ross, I wonder if all those locks and dams make it difficult to put together an extended sail without considerable fuss. I'm not too familiar with the rivers outside of the triangle area itself. Even if the nearest obstructions are many miles away, I'd imagine that just a few knots of current would make the upstream leg somewhat trying (or noisy with the motor on).
Phil, I think that from this paragraph you could
infer some averages and a study of the charts would allow some accurate detail. Eight locks and dams on the Allegheny River provide 72 miles of slack-water navigation from the Point at Pittsburgh to above East Brady, Pennsylvania. Nine locks and dams on the Monongahela River maintain navigable waters for the entire 128.7 miles of the river from just above Fairmont, West Virginia to the Point at Pittsburgh. Six locks and dams on the Ohio River provide navigable waters from the Point at Pittsburgh for 127.2 miles of the river downstream to New Martinsville, West Virginia.
infer some averages and a study of the charts would allow some accurate detail. Eight locks and dams on the Allegheny River provide 72 miles of slack-water navigation from the Point at Pittsburgh to above East Brady, Pennsylvania. Nine locks and dams on the Monongahela River maintain navigable waters for the entire 128.7 miles of the river from just above Fairmont, West Virginia to the Point at Pittsburgh. Six locks and dams on the Ohio River provide navigable waters from the Point at Pittsburgh for 127.2 miles of the river downstream to New Martinsville, West Virginia.
Phil, I have the link for the topozone
topographical maps of the Monongahelia river here. By clicking the border arrows you can follow the river. http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?lat=40.33831&lon=-79.89362&size=m&symshow=n&u=4&datum=nad27&layer=DRG
topographical maps of the Monongahelia river here. By clicking the border arrows you can follow the river. http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?lat=40.33831&lon=-79.89362&size=m&symshow=n&u=4&datum=nad27&layer=DRG
Two points of sail
Spent one season on the Hudson (Near Albany). The wind would either blow up or down the River so you were constantly runing or close hauled depending on which way you needed to go, got a little boring. The Hudson is tidal all the way up to the Federal lock in Troy so when the tidal current and the flow were together in one direction and you needed to go in the opposite direction it was a chore. To me the river was cut out for power boats with big engines.
Spent one season on the Hudson (Near Albany). The wind would either blow up or down the River so you were constantly runing or close hauled depending on which way you needed to go, got a little boring. The Hudson is tidal all the way up to the Federal lock in Troy so when the tidal current and the flow were together in one direction and you needed to go in the opposite direction it was a chore. To me the river was cut out for power boats with big engines.
Phil, I have been in Pittsburgh all my life.
My family had cabin cruisers, house boats, ski boat. In the 60's and 70's, my cousin used to sail the Alleghany in Pool 2. The lock and dam system starts the numbering from Pittsburgh for the Alleghany and the Monongahela. The wind does mostly blow upstream. I don't know what size boat you want to sail, but I see small sailboats once in awhile . As far as trips, the first dam on the alleghany is about 3 miles from the point in Pittsburgh and the second dam is about 14 miles from the point.Between them is Pool 2. It is the most crowded Pool on the rivers. The Ohio is about twice as wide as either of the other two rivers. Sailing would be alot of tacking. I actually bought my boat from a towboat captian that sailed it on the Ohio near New Martinsville. Lake Aurthur is about an hour north of Pittsburgh where I sail and Pymatuning is about a half hour north of that and erie is actually closer to 2.5 north of Pittsburgh. The two smaller lakes are State operated. The link is the marina at Lake Aurthur. Phil, if you want, click my avatar and send me an e-mail I will give you my cell # or I can call you. Hope something here helped! r.w.landau
My family had cabin cruisers, house boats, ski boat. In the 60's and 70's, my cousin used to sail the Alleghany in Pool 2. The lock and dam system starts the numbering from Pittsburgh for the Alleghany and the Monongahela. The wind does mostly blow upstream. I don't know what size boat you want to sail, but I see small sailboats once in awhile . As far as trips, the first dam on the alleghany is about 3 miles from the point in Pittsburgh and the second dam is about 14 miles from the point.Between them is Pool 2. It is the most crowded Pool on the rivers. The Ohio is about twice as wide as either of the other two rivers. Sailing would be alot of tacking. I actually bought my boat from a towboat captian that sailed it on the Ohio near New Martinsville. Lake Aurthur is about an hour north of Pittsburgh where I sail and Pymatuning is about a half hour north of that and erie is actually closer to 2.5 north of Pittsburgh. The two smaller lakes are State operated. The link is the marina at Lake Aurthur. Phil, if you want, click my avatar and send me an e-mail I will give you my cell # or I can call you. Hope something here helped! r.w.landau
Short hop
Phil, you might want to take the ride from Pittsburgh to Erie,Pa to get an idea of the advantages of sailing Lake Erie. Check out the Presque Isle marina. There are a good number of tenants there from Pittsburg and surrounding area. One advanatage is the Erie Bay, that is good sailing when the Lake is really rough. You can sail over to Canada or up to the Cleveland area or to Buffalo N.Y. in a days time. Yep, being 15 min away is nice, but the work "shakels" sometime make us consider alternate. So I'm biased,being a native here, good luck.
Phil, you might want to take the ride from Pittsburgh to Erie,Pa to get an idea of the advantages of sailing Lake Erie. Check out the Presque Isle marina. There are a good number of tenants there from Pittsburg and surrounding area. One advanatage is the Erie Bay, that is good sailing when the Lake is really rough. You can sail over to Canada or up to the Cleveland area or to Buffalo N.Y. in a days time. Yep, being 15 min away is nice, but the work "shakels" sometime make us consider alternate. So I'm biased,being a native here, good luck.
Please remember that Phil knows that area!
His boat is just west of that in astabula/geneva. it is the drive that takes the ..... whatever out of the sailing. I have wantd to sail bigger water. The 2+ hours to Erie just doesn't cut it, yet the enclosed lake doesn't do it either. So, I am going to enjoy what I have. r.w.landau
His boat is just west of that in astabula/geneva. it is the drive that takes the ..... whatever out of the sailing. I have wantd to sail bigger water. The 2+ hours to Erie just doesn't cut it, yet the enclosed lake doesn't do it either. So, I am going to enjoy what I have. r.w.landau
Revised opinion
Well, I was back in Pittsburgh last weekend and I thought about it again. The rivers down by the triangle are not that wide after all, maybe a few hundred yards at most. If the winds are generally through the valley, up and down the river, that could be a chore, particularly with heavy barge traffic. Maybe they widen out in the pools. I guess I never see sailboats on the river because I only really see the rivers near the city itself. Inland lakes would appear to be the alternative. If we ever make the move, I think I'd consider a water ballast trailerable boat in the 25' range. That way we could go up to Erie for a few weeks in the summer and go for daysails at Morainne State Park or Pymatuning for example, even keep it docked there for those quick getaways.
Well, I was back in Pittsburgh last weekend and I thought about it again. The rivers down by the triangle are not that wide after all, maybe a few hundred yards at most. If the winds are generally through the valley, up and down the river, that could be a chore, particularly with heavy barge traffic. Maybe they widen out in the pools. I guess I never see sailboats on the river because I only really see the rivers near the city itself. Inland lakes would appear to be the alternative. If we ever make the move, I think I'd consider a water ballast trailerable boat in the 25' range. That way we could go up to Erie for a few weeks in the summer and go for daysails at Morainne State Park or Pymatuning for example, even keep it docked there for those quick getaways.
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