Do you feel like you have a right to sail even if you imped the progress of a stinkpotter??? My thoughts are 1. Basically we are all out for fun and a stinkpotters race to the perfect place to drink or fish has no greater value than my desire to sail. 2. To most stinkpotters we are basically a fixed object relative to their speed. 3. Even under full power most sailboats are a hinderance to the stinkpotters race to somewhere because we can only go 5-7 knots compared to their 15-45 knots. I am not an ******* asserting a right to make them dodge but the reality is that when we are tacking we can't make much progress if we have to short tack to avoid a stinkpot who can easily slightly alter course or speed. Thoughts??? Tom
Right to Sail
- Thread starter p323ms
- Start date
- Status
I have owned speedboats, a Walleye boat and a Pontoon boat. I have been involved in tournement fishing too. I do not know anyone on any lake who "minds" steering clear of sailboats. There are simple rules and laws that govern who does what on the water. Speed boats are move manuverable, so obviously they steer clear of a sailboat. Of course I feel I have the right to sail. I'm not impeding a fisherman or a ski boat. The fisherman has a destination in mind, and I guarantee I am not sailing in his destination. When sailing, I am already where I want to be... In my sailboat, moving across the water.
Our story
Two summers ago, my wife and I were sailing our Chrysler 22 from Mexico Beach to Crooked Island. We were in company of our friends in a Hunter 235. Both of us were sailing along beautifully. When we got to the pass that is the split between the two islands, we all decided we would strike our sails and motor in. Our friends boat was about 100 yards away and I went topside to strike the main. Mind you, the main was still up. A power catamaran came racing along and split between the two boats. I never saw it. My wife in the cockpit screamed, "Hang on!" I immediately grabbe the mast as the wake hit us. I had about two feet of air under my feet! If I had not grabbed the mast when I did, I would have been in the drink. I guess the lesson learned is, don't trust them. As a good friend of mine said, "Any Joe Blow with a six pack can steer a power boat. It takes a true sailor to captain a sailboat."
Two summers ago, my wife and I were sailing our Chrysler 22 from Mexico Beach to Crooked Island. We were in company of our friends in a Hunter 235. Both of us were sailing along beautifully. When we got to the pass that is the split between the two islands, we all decided we would strike our sails and motor in. Our friends boat was about 100 yards away and I went topside to strike the main. Mind you, the main was still up. A power catamaran came racing along and split between the two boats. I never saw it. My wife in the cockpit screamed, "Hang on!" I immediately grabbe the mast as the wake hit us. I had about two feet of air under my feet! If I had not grabbed the mast when I did, I would have been in the drink. I guess the lesson learned is, don't trust them. As a good friend of mine said, "Any Joe Blow with a six pack can steer a power boat. It takes a true sailor to captain a sailboat."
Ex power boater
I drove power boats for years. The only times I ever came close to a sail boat was to admire it and the crew sailing it. I find most power boaters are pretty good. The most inconsiderate seem to gravitate towards those **** jet skis, and they're a pain in the *** to both sailers and power boaters.
I drove power boats for years. The only times I ever came close to a sail boat was to admire it and the crew sailing it. I find most power boaters are pretty good. The most inconsiderate seem to gravitate towards those **** jet skis, and they're a pain in the *** to both sailers and power boaters.
Oncelers
Last fall we were out on our 26' Pearson, sailing back home to the marina with another sailboat which was about 50 yds off our port bow. A huge cabin-cruiser came blasting towards us, never changing course in the slightest, and cut right between both boats. I had just enough time to yell down to the kids to "Hang on!" as the wake tossed us around. As we passed the other sailboat, we gave them a wave to see if they made it through okay. We then noticed the name of their boat - "The Lorax". Probably the most perfect name for a sailboat, if any. So now, my wife and I call careless and reckless stinkpotters, "The Oncelers"...
Last fall we were out on our 26' Pearson, sailing back home to the marina with another sailboat which was about 50 yds off our port bow. A huge cabin-cruiser came blasting towards us, never changing course in the slightest, and cut right between both boats. I had just enough time to yell down to the kids to "Hang on!" as the wake tossed us around. As we passed the other sailboat, we gave them a wave to see if they made it through okay. We then noticed the name of their boat - "The Lorax". Probably the most perfect name for a sailboat, if any. So now, my wife and I call careless and reckless stinkpotters, "The Oncelers"...
rules of the road, er, sea
I believe that the same rules apply on White Bear Lake as the rest of us follow in the more salty seas - and it doesn't matter if you are racing or not. When being overtaken, it is your responsibility to maintain your course and speed - unless of course there is an exceptional reason not to. Tacking to avoid a shoal or another boat might be reasonable, but it sounds like you tacked unexpectedly right in front of him causing a potential collision situation. I don't blame the stinkpotter for being upset, but it may not have been necessary for him to hang around escalating the situation.
I believe that the same rules apply on White Bear Lake as the rest of us follow in the more salty seas - and it doesn't matter if you are racing or not. When being overtaken, it is your responsibility to maintain your course and speed - unless of course there is an exceptional reason not to. Tacking to avoid a shoal or another boat might be reasonable, but it sounds like you tacked unexpectedly right in front of him causing a potential collision situation. I don't blame the stinkpotter for being upset, but it may not have been necessary for him to hang around escalating the situation.
Sail Boats do not always have right-of-way
Sail Boats do not always have right-of-way. Most seasoned sailors are careful to protect their boats and crews. The problem is that it takes very little knowledge or skill for a person to purchase and operated a power boat. I suppose we get to see it all. We have seen large trawlers drag nets through the middle of our race course. We have had a Game Warden stop boats to check papers during the middle of a race. I have seen sailors hook trolling lines. We have had power boaters and jet skiers help sail boats in trouble. In fact, my girl friend flipped a Hobie, and she had a half-dozen fishing boats help her....lol! There is always a *.* out there, but I think most boaters are fairly considerate of each other.
Sail Boats do not always have right-of-way. Most seasoned sailors are careful to protect their boats and crews. The problem is that it takes very little knowledge or skill for a person to purchase and operated a power boat. I suppose we get to see it all. We have seen large trawlers drag nets through the middle of our race course. We have had a Game Warden stop boats to check papers during the middle of a race. I have seen sailors hook trolling lines. We have had power boaters and jet skiers help sail boats in trouble. In fact, my girl friend flipped a Hobie, and she had a half-dozen fishing boats help her....lol! There is always a *.* out there, but I think most boaters are fairly considerate of each other.
Stand On/Change Course vs. Right of Way
I think it's easier to think of these rules as setting forth the actions each boater must take rather than a "right of way" issue. In the Princess of the Lake example above, the rules call the sailboat to stay on its course and for the power boat to alter course to avoid a collision. The rules do not give the sailboat any "right of way" to do as the captain pleases simply because it is under sail. The sailboat was the stand on vessle and should not have altered course.
I think it's easier to think of these rules as setting forth the actions each boater must take rather than a "right of way" issue. In the Princess of the Lake example above, the rules call the sailboat to stay on its course and for the power boat to alter course to avoid a collision. The rules do not give the sailboat any "right of way" to do as the captain pleases simply because it is under sail. The sailboat was the stand on vessle and should not have altered course.
For the safety and comfort
of my crew, I have no problem altering course to avoid someone that obviously doesn't have a clue. It's no excuse but I don't think that a lot of power boaters realize the havoc they cause when they buzz by a sailboat at a high rate of speed.
of my crew, I have no problem altering course to avoid someone that obviously doesn't have a clue. It's no excuse but I don't think that a lot of power boaters realize the havoc they cause when they buzz by a sailboat at a high rate of speed.
Last week I was teaching a friend to sail
when a trawler was bearing down on us I got to use my favorite line from Captain Ron. "Don't worry about him boss, he'll get out of the way, they always do, learned that when I was driving the Saratoga."
when a trawler was bearing down on us I got to use my favorite line from Captain Ron. "Don't worry about him boss, he'll get out of the way, they always do, learned that when I was driving the Saratoga."
International Rules of the Road
International rules of the road no longer use the term "Right of Way". They instead use the term "Stand On". However even under this designation, the "Stand On" vessel is required to take action when in danger. While it may be point of principle, is manuevering really more difficult than repairing the damage to your boat, freinds and loved ones ?
International rules of the road no longer use the term "Right of Way". They instead use the term "Stand On". However even under this designation, the "Stand On" vessel is required to take action when in danger. While it may be point of principle, is manuevering really more difficult than repairing the damage to your boat, freinds and loved ones ?
Stand On vs Privileged
Actually, what "stand on" replaced was "privileged" vessel. "Right of way" really is a misnomer. Neither vessel has the right of way. The give way vessel is supposed to take action to avoide the stand on vessel. The stand on vessel does NOT have "right of way", his obligation is to maintain course and speed. You're 100% correct in your statement that he is further obligated to take evasive measures if necessary.
Actually, what "stand on" replaced was "privileged" vessel. "Right of way" really is a misnomer. Neither vessel has the right of way. The give way vessel is supposed to take action to avoide the stand on vessel. The stand on vessel does NOT have "right of way", his obligation is to maintain course and speed. You're 100% correct in your statement that he is further obligated to take evasive measures if necessary.
Safety and harmony
Every situation is different. I always assess the situation from a courtesy/safety standpoint. Part of the value of the rules of the road, is that it helps people to behave in a predicable manner. If I can make someone's day nicer by changing course, I will do so. From an emotional point of view, I find the arrogance of many sailors, to be just as wearisome as the ignorance of some power boaters. I recall one day, motoring home in a 44' cruiser. We had a crossing situation with a sailboat under power, with the sails down. We were the stand on vessel. To my dismay, the sail boat maintained course, forcing us to come off plane, and change course leaving us the wrong side of Berkeley Pier. To add further insult, we got an earful from the skipper, who had gone forward to raise the mainsail. Incidentally, had the sail been up, or even partially up, I would have been able to figure his intent, and I would happily have slowed down early so he could stay pointed into the wind. Just goes to show eh? The biggest headache I had while power boating, was coming up Alameda Estuary, trying to predict when the sailboats were going to tack, and make sure my subsequent change in direction didn't create a hazard for the inevitable passing ski boat.
Every situation is different. I always assess the situation from a courtesy/safety standpoint. Part of the value of the rules of the road, is that it helps people to behave in a predicable manner. If I can make someone's day nicer by changing course, I will do so. From an emotional point of view, I find the arrogance of many sailors, to be just as wearisome as the ignorance of some power boaters. I recall one day, motoring home in a 44' cruiser. We had a crossing situation with a sailboat under power, with the sails down. We were the stand on vessel. To my dismay, the sail boat maintained course, forcing us to come off plane, and change course leaving us the wrong side of Berkeley Pier. To add further insult, we got an earful from the skipper, who had gone forward to raise the mainsail. Incidentally, had the sail been up, or even partially up, I would have been able to figure his intent, and I would happily have slowed down early so he could stay pointed into the wind. Just goes to show eh? The biggest headache I had while power boating, was coming up Alameda Estuary, trying to predict when the sailboats were going to tack, and make sure my subsequent change in direction didn't create a hazard for the inevitable passing ski boat.
I goofed
Tacking out a narrow pass to the gulf, I goofed. I was nearing the shoal at the edge of the channel and looked behind me to make sure it was clear to tack when I noticed the local charter fishing head boat coming at me on a full plane. I knew that I couldn't tack and get out of his way in time, yet if I waited for him to pass I'd be aground. To my immense relief, the professional captain noticed my predicament, dropped off the plane, and let me complete my maneuver - even though he definitely had the right of way. (narrow channel rule) I saw him in the marina bar the next day and expressed my gratitude with a cold beer. I now plan my maneuvers well in advance and make sure that the auxiliary is ready to go if needed in tight situations.
Tacking out a narrow pass to the gulf, I goofed. I was nearing the shoal at the edge of the channel and looked behind me to make sure it was clear to tack when I noticed the local charter fishing head boat coming at me on a full plane. I knew that I couldn't tack and get out of his way in time, yet if I waited for him to pass I'd be aground. To my immense relief, the professional captain noticed my predicament, dropped off the plane, and let me complete my maneuver - even though he definitely had the right of way. (narrow channel rule) I saw him in the marina bar the next day and expressed my gratitude with a cold beer. I now plan my maneuvers well in advance and make sure that the auxiliary is ready to go if needed in tight situations.
A boat "on plane" must be going at least
20 Knts. I can't imagine too many cases where a sailboat under power at 5 knts. would not be the "stand on" vessel in a "crossing situation" with a large power boat "on Plane". Hard for something going real slow to avoid something going 4X faster. Just from a courtesy/safety standpoint that is.
20 Knts. I can't imagine too many cases where a sailboat under power at 5 knts. would not be the "stand on" vessel in a "crossing situation" with a large power boat "on Plane". Hard for something going real slow to avoid something going 4X faster. Just from a courtesy/safety standpoint that is.
Jeff, I don't think the rules require that
sailboats be driven onto the beach because of a right-of-way rule. Just do something like sounding five quick blasts and tack. Narrow channel rules work both ways.
sailboats be driven onto the beach because of a right-of-way rule. Just do something like sounding five quick blasts and tack. Narrow channel rules work both ways.
Under power?
Sorry, but if a sailboat is under power, it's no longer a sailboat, but a power boat. Doesn't matter the speed, but relative direction of the other power boat. Unless the "power boat" is crossing a narrow channel, then the boat to starboard is stand on.
Sorry, but if a sailboat is under power, it's no longer a sailboat, but a power boat. Doesn't matter the speed, but relative direction of the other power boat. Unless the "power boat" is crossing a narrow channel, then the boat to starboard is stand on.
Right of way, etc.
It's Rule One, but a lot of these arguments seem to overlook it: AVOID A COLLISION. Add a major consideration: DO IT EARLY AND SMARTLY. That is, if you are going to give way, turn right away from the oncoming vessel; if you are going to exercise your "privilege", turn straight across the course of the oncoming vessel and get clear as quickly as possible. Your status as "stand on" or "burdened" is not so much a question of "rights" as it is a system to inform skippers as to how two vessels should handle a crossing situation.
It's Rule One, but a lot of these arguments seem to overlook it: AVOID A COLLISION. Add a major consideration: DO IT EARLY AND SMARTLY. That is, if you are going to give way, turn right away from the oncoming vessel; if you are going to exercise your "privilege", turn straight across the course of the oncoming vessel and get clear as quickly as possible. Your status as "stand on" or "burdened" is not so much a question of "rights" as it is a system to inform skippers as to how two vessels should handle a crossing situation.
- Status