In leaving or entering Huntington Harbor there is a channel just south of the Huntington lighthouse (no light). Groups of fishing boats often like to fish in the channel either at anchor or drifting. As I draw almost 6 ft and motor through it, it doesn't leave much room with the heavy boat traffic, especially at low tide. Who has the right of way the fishing boats or my boat?
Right of way
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any boat showing rode...
Any boat showing an anchor rode has rights. With the other boats adrift or trolling- if you are under motor, you all have the same rights. Try a friendly yell to request a boat to pull in fishing lines until you pass. Then a big wave and a thank you. Not much you can do about it, but try not to upset people... they are just as pissed that you are motoring through their fishing ground as you are that they are fishing in the channel you need
B
Any boat showing an anchor rode has rights. With the other boats adrift or trolling- if you are under motor, you all have the same rights. Try a friendly yell to request a boat to pull in fishing lines until you pass. Then a big wave and a thank you. Not much you can do about it, but try not to upset people... they are just as pissed that you are motoring through their fishing ground as you are that they are fishing in the channel you need
BActually
According to USDOT Coast Guard Rule 9 (Narrow Channels), sub section (c)states: A vessel engaged in fishing shall not impede the passage of any other vessel navigating within a narrow channel or fairway. Subsection (b) also applies. So you have the right of way. Thats not to say that there will not be some serious cursing directed at you if you give these people a lesson in Nav Rules. If you wanted to make an issue out of it you could call some enforcement folks to explain it to them. Now, as the rules are always subject to discussion, we can expect someone else to enter into this and tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about as the rules are always subject to controversy.
According to USDOT Coast Guard Rule 9 (Narrow Channels), sub section (c)states: A vessel engaged in fishing shall not impede the passage of any other vessel navigating within a narrow channel or fairway. Subsection (b) also applies. So you have the right of way. Thats not to say that there will not be some serious cursing directed at you if you give these people a lesson in Nav Rules. If you wanted to make an issue out of it you could call some enforcement folks to explain it to them. Now, as the rules are always subject to discussion, we can expect someone else to enter into this and tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about as the rules are always subject to controversy.
Stand on VS Give way
The general principle in this case would be the vessel with limited ability to manuever is the stand on boat. Therefore, all others must give way. I face this problem from time to time also, as fishing can be good in a channel. See USCG ColRegs Rule 9. http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/rules/Rule09.htm
The general principle in this case would be the vessel with limited ability to manuever is the stand on boat. Therefore, all others must give way. I face this problem from time to time also, as fishing can be good in a channel. See USCG ColRegs Rule 9. http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/rules/Rule09.htm
I don't know the regs...
But I don't think one can block a channel. That is a good question. Going to have to really dig into some research. Maybe a call to the Coast Guard or Harbor Police to ask about the rules or fishing within a marked deepwater channel?
But I don't think one can block a channel. That is a good question. Going to have to really dig into some research. Maybe a call to the Coast Guard or Harbor Police to ask about the rules or fishing within a marked deepwater channel?
On the Susquehanna River we have
a large stone quarry and heavy barge traffic. No one is foolish enough to anchor and fish in the shipping channel. But a sail boat is only 12 feet wide and can slip into a dock space, there should be no reason to think that a little fishing boat is taking YOUR right-of-way by fishing in a 200 foot wide channel. I don't think that this is a right of way question so much as an attitude question. We have crab pot bouys all over the bay at this time of year and a prudent boater avoids them. We don't question the right of the working men that put them there. It is a big bay there is room for everybody if we will be polite.
a large stone quarry and heavy barge traffic. No one is foolish enough to anchor and fish in the shipping channel. But a sail boat is only 12 feet wide and can slip into a dock space, there should be no reason to think that a little fishing boat is taking YOUR right-of-way by fishing in a 200 foot wide channel. I don't think that this is a right of way question so much as an attitude question. We have crab pot bouys all over the bay at this time of year and a prudent boater avoids them. We don't question the right of the working men that put them there. It is a big bay there is room for everybody if we will be polite.
In Alabama it is illegal
It is illegal in Alabama to anchor in a narrow channel or river if it impedes any other boat's passage. Dog river in Mobile bay is also a bad place with a bunch of fishing boats in a narrow fairly busy channel. I have had them anchor in the channel going into my old marina and they act like I am the problem for wanting to get in or out of the marina. As others have said it is not worth the effort to get all excited and usually you can get through without too much trouble. Recently in Wilson lake there were a lot of boats drifting in the channel leading into the locks. I was about to get rude when they waves and smiled and I got through without incident. Some seem completely unaware of the situation. One pontoon boat passed me and then stopped in the channel and started fishing a whole bunch of kids on board. I just dodged but passed kinda close. There was a coal barge behind me that he couldn't see yet. I bet he got the heck out of the way when the coal barge came around the bend!!! The coal barge couldn't stop or turn even if it tried. But I bet that after seeing several thousand tons of coal and steel coming at him at 7-8 knots he figured out that channels are not good places to hang out and fish.
It is illegal in Alabama to anchor in a narrow channel or river if it impedes any other boat's passage. Dog river in Mobile bay is also a bad place with a bunch of fishing boats in a narrow fairly busy channel. I have had them anchor in the channel going into my old marina and they act like I am the problem for wanting to get in or out of the marina. As others have said it is not worth the effort to get all excited and usually you can get through without too much trouble. Recently in Wilson lake there were a lot of boats drifting in the channel leading into the locks. I was about to get rude when they waves and smiled and I got through without incident. Some seem completely unaware of the situation. One pontoon boat passed me and then stopped in the channel and started fishing a whole bunch of kids on board. I just dodged but passed kinda close. There was a coal barge behind me that he couldn't see yet. I bet he got the heck out of the way when the coal barge came around the bend!!! The coal barge couldn't stop or turn even if it tried. But I bet that after seeing several thousand tons of coal and steel coming at him at 7-8 knots he figured out that channels are not good places to hang out and fish.
Fishing boats often don't realize that a sail boat with a lot deeper draft has a very narrow channel to squeeze into, especially when there is shoaling on one side of the channel and you are forced to one side. I have to turn into a tiny unmarked channel to get to my dock, and there are often fishermen there. I usually give a toot of my horn from some distance away so they know I am coming and its not so loud as to be obnoxious, and then we hand signal to them. It generally seems to work in a pretty friendly way.
Fareway - Anchoring....
Hey mates, on the one hand I do agree with Ross, we all use the same fareways, waterways, and some, like fishermen (it is getting to be slim for these guys) are making a living too. It is illegal to anchor in any "fareway" (channel, separation zone, any buyed or daymarker - inside or outside the COLREGS) AT ANY TIME! Even drifting across is a no, no, unless it is a, red over red, (captain is dead) vessel not under command; any other vessel must use a fareway in a business like fashion, and if crossing the fareway take the most direct angle ACROSS it that is practicable, not on their course necessarily. The term "right of way" is not used. Vessels 'should' pass port to port (again, if practicable) each staying on their respective "right", but can pass starboard to starboard if need be. I see someone finally 'got' the Cap'n Ron bit...lol! Welcome to the dialogue thar mate. I stole it from Kurt Russell, not a bad actor, and one hell of a skier; Redford is better though. As a trivia note, Kurt was a major's baseball player until he hurt his knee...;-( You mates be safe out there, and Ross is right, ya can't let this stuff spoil the fact that you are party to something not many folks enjoy, and is a 'special' feat to be proud of.
Hey mates, on the one hand I do agree with Ross, we all use the same fareways, waterways, and some, like fishermen (it is getting to be slim for these guys) are making a living too. It is illegal to anchor in any "fareway" (channel, separation zone, any buyed or daymarker - inside or outside the COLREGS) AT ANY TIME! Even drifting across is a no, no, unless it is a, red over red, (captain is dead) vessel not under command; any other vessel must use a fareway in a business like fashion, and if crossing the fareway take the most direct angle ACROSS it that is practicable, not on their course necessarily. The term "right of way" is not used. Vessels 'should' pass port to port (again, if practicable) each staying on their respective "right", but can pass starboard to starboard if need be. I see someone finally 'got' the Cap'n Ron bit...lol! Welcome to the dialogue thar mate. I stole it from Kurt Russell, not a bad actor, and one hell of a skier; Redford is better though. As a trivia note, Kurt was a major's baseball player until he hurt his knee...;-( You mates be safe out there, and Ross is right, ya can't let this stuff spoil the fact that you are party to something not many folks enjoy, and is a 'special' feat to be proud of.
Blow their lures off
Go to warp speed and blow their lures off. If they are dumb enough to fish in the channel then I (for one) am dumb enough to snag their lines and let my prop line cutter finish the argument. Now if you don't have a prop line cutter you must asses the probability of getting an engine stall during the "blow their lures off" move. If you are packing HP then go for it, if you have one of those wimpy, wimpy, wimpy sail boat engines that stall at the first opportunity then you need to consider how you are going to "sail out" of the situation. He/she may be bigger than you are and if you are tied to his/her line you will have a hard time "getting away". My recommendation is keep a sharp knife, a boat hook, and some duct tape handy. It is especially effective if you can pass them at hull speed and rock their boat while you cut their lines. Hay, they do it to us all the time, passing 10 feet to port or starboard at 25 kts and leaving us to deal with their wake.
Go to warp speed and blow their lures off. If they are dumb enough to fish in the channel then I (for one) am dumb enough to snag their lines and let my prop line cutter finish the argument. Now if you don't have a prop line cutter you must asses the probability of getting an engine stall during the "blow their lures off" move. If you are packing HP then go for it, if you have one of those wimpy, wimpy, wimpy sail boat engines that stall at the first opportunity then you need to consider how you are going to "sail out" of the situation. He/she may be bigger than you are and if you are tied to his/her line you will have a hard time "getting away". My recommendation is keep a sharp knife, a boat hook, and some duct tape handy. It is especially effective if you can pass them at hull speed and rock their boat while you cut their lines. Hay, they do it to us all the time, passing 10 feet to port or starboard at 25 kts and leaving us to deal with their wake.
channel fishing
In So. Cal. we have a lot of people who like to fish from small, sometimes rental, boats in channels. These are recreational fishermen, not commercial. I spoke to Harbor Patrol one time and he said while it's not exactly illegal for them to do it, it's not real smart as they could get clobbered by someone much bigger.
In So. Cal. we have a lot of people who like to fish from small, sometimes rental, boats in channels. These are recreational fishermen, not commercial. I spoke to Harbor Patrol one time and he said while it's not exactly illegal for them to do it, it's not real smart as they could get clobbered by someone much bigger.
be reasonable
I commend reading the Colregs to anyone who is or will be at the helm of a boat. The idea is not "tit for tat" behaviors, but safe boating. Reading the right of way rules discloses a simple underlying scheme: vessels that are less constrained in where they can go, including fishing boats, must stay of the way of vessels that are more constrained, such as vessels constrained by their draft. This includes not taking actions like anchoring or drifting in channels. Postings have mostly focused on the fishermen as nuisances or irritants. There is a more expensive issue. If something happens, financial, and possibly criminal, liability will be determined under the colregs. Depending on the particular situation, those fishermen may be entitled to fish in those locations so long as they do not impede traffic, or fishing may not be permitted at all. Check with your local gendarmes. Jim Kolstoe, h23 Kara's Boo
I commend reading the Colregs to anyone who is or will be at the helm of a boat. The idea is not "tit for tat" behaviors, but safe boating. Reading the right of way rules discloses a simple underlying scheme: vessels that are less constrained in where they can go, including fishing boats, must stay of the way of vessels that are more constrained, such as vessels constrained by their draft. This includes not taking actions like anchoring or drifting in channels. Postings have mostly focused on the fishermen as nuisances or irritants. There is a more expensive issue. If something happens, financial, and possibly criminal, liability will be determined under the colregs. Depending on the particular situation, those fishermen may be entitled to fish in those locations so long as they do not impede traffic, or fishing may not be permitted at all. Check with your local gendarmes. Jim Kolstoe, h23 Kara's Boo
To Clear Up a Few Things
Terms like "vessel engaged in fishing" and "vessel with limited ability to manuever" are terms with specific meaning. You don't get to use "what I think that means" to determine the meaning. A guy out trolling for fish on his bass boat is not, by USCG regs, a "vessel engaged in fishing". Nor is one boat towing another a "vessel with limited ability ot manuever". (I know both of these are the case, because they both showed up on my USCG master's test). Also, "displaying rode" is not enough of a "marker" for an anchored boat. The CG has specific markers to designate an anchored boat. That said, the advice Cap'n Ron (as usual) and Jim Lolstoe is right on. In the grand scheme of things, what would "blowing their lures off" get you? Do you REALLY think it's going to make it any easier to get past them next time you have to share a channel with them? I get irritated every time I see the fishing boats blocking the narrow gap between the breakwater and the shore on the approach to my marina. About the time I start coming up with the "great remarks" I'm going to toss their way, the do the most remarkable thing. They pull in their lines, turn their trolling motors, and let me pass... Amazing. Turns out they don't want me running over their lines any more than I want to.
Terms like "vessel engaged in fishing" and "vessel with limited ability to manuever" are terms with specific meaning. You don't get to use "what I think that means" to determine the meaning. A guy out trolling for fish on his bass boat is not, by USCG regs, a "vessel engaged in fishing". Nor is one boat towing another a "vessel with limited ability ot manuever". (I know both of these are the case, because they both showed up on my USCG master's test). Also, "displaying rode" is not enough of a "marker" for an anchored boat. The CG has specific markers to designate an anchored boat. That said, the advice Cap'n Ron (as usual) and Jim Lolstoe is right on. In the grand scheme of things, what would "blowing their lures off" get you? Do you REALLY think it's going to make it any easier to get past them next time you have to share a channel with them? I get irritated every time I see the fishing boats blocking the narrow gap between the breakwater and the shore on the approach to my marina. About the time I start coming up with the "great remarks" I'm going to toss their way, the do the most remarkable thing. They pull in their lines, turn their trolling motors, and let me pass... Amazing. Turns out they don't want me running over their lines any more than I want to.
"Them" against "Us"
There is enough polarization going on without adding to it. Any time we sailors pass a fishing boat, or any power boat, we add or detract from those guys' impressions of who we are. Some day one of us might need help from one of them - why not leave a good, or at worst, neutral taste in their mouth. I generally assume it might be that guys first day out and he really isn't up on many of the rules. We get POed when they yell at us or are otherwise rude when they think we are out of line - why should it be different the other way around?
There is enough polarization going on without adding to it. Any time we sailors pass a fishing boat, or any power boat, we add or detract from those guys' impressions of who we are. Some day one of us might need help from one of them - why not leave a good, or at worst, neutral taste in their mouth. I generally assume it might be that guys first day out and he really isn't up on many of the rules. We get POed when they yell at us or are otherwise rude when they think we are out of line - why should it be different the other way around?
I get the same response
as Mr. Parsons. By "blow their lures off" I meant that; If they are dumb enough to fish in a channel that leaves me no possible way of getting by them without running aground and they don't pull in their lines (they usually will) then I don't have any qualms about exercising my rights as a vessel limited by draft to the channel. With that said, I am also not going to "hug there side of the channel just to cut there lines" IMHO the power boats operating at speed and passing me 25' to port/starboard are much more of a hazard to navigation. But there is no regulation on who is responsible for your wake once you get out of the "no wake" zone.
as Mr. Parsons. By "blow their lures off" I meant that; If they are dumb enough to fish in a channel that leaves me no possible way of getting by them without running aground and they don't pull in their lines (they usually will) then I don't have any qualms about exercising my rights as a vessel limited by draft to the channel. With that said, I am also not going to "hug there side of the channel just to cut there lines" IMHO the power boats operating at speed and passing me 25' to port/starboard are much more of a hazard to navigation. But there is no regulation on who is responsible for your wake once you get out of the "no wake" zone.
Ignorance
I'm going to try and get this said without insulting anybody, but the biggest problems that occur that we have been talking about is just plain ignorance of the law and rules. I'll admit that in my earlier years when I was fishing out of a 14 foot jon boat that all I knew about rules was that I had to have my boat registered. I'll bet that is the case with most casual boaters, pwc riders, and fishermen and yes, sail boaters too. Most people are doing what they do because they don't really know any better due to the lack of knowledge concerning the COREGS and the common rules of navigation. This is basically caused by the fact that all you need to operate a boat is to have the money to pay for it or rent one. Simple as that. If your smart enough to turn a key, your in business. I'm not advocating this by any stretch of the imagination, but I seriously expect that one of these days it will be required to have a liscense to operate a motor vessel of any size. It has already started in some states under what is called a Boaters Safety Course Certificate. There is simply too much confusion about who's right and who's wrong. I'm not sure it would be a bad thing except for the fact it would probably wind up being used as another means to get money out of us. All we can do is live with it and do what we can to avoid accidents, injuries, and confrontations. Any of the three really screws up the day!!
I'm going to try and get this said without insulting anybody, but the biggest problems that occur that we have been talking about is just plain ignorance of the law and rules. I'll admit that in my earlier years when I was fishing out of a 14 foot jon boat that all I knew about rules was that I had to have my boat registered. I'll bet that is the case with most casual boaters, pwc riders, and fishermen and yes, sail boaters too. Most people are doing what they do because they don't really know any better due to the lack of knowledge concerning the COREGS and the common rules of navigation. This is basically caused by the fact that all you need to operate a boat is to have the money to pay for it or rent one. Simple as that. If your smart enough to turn a key, your in business. I'm not advocating this by any stretch of the imagination, but I seriously expect that one of these days it will be required to have a liscense to operate a motor vessel of any size. It has already started in some states under what is called a Boaters Safety Course Certificate. There is simply too much confusion about who's right and who's wrong. I'm not sure it would be a bad thing except for the fact it would probably wind up being used as another means to get money out of us. All we can do is live with it and do what we can to avoid accidents, injuries, and confrontations. Any of the three really screws up the day!!
I can't see fishing lines. I can see
crab pot bouys, fishing boats, PWC's, swimmers, but I can't see fishing lines. I always avoid running over the things that I can see but I am sure that I run over all manner of things that I can't see. Further more, I don't care.
crab pot bouys, fishing boats, PWC's, swimmers, but I can't see fishing lines. I always avoid running over the things that I can see but I am sure that I run over all manner of things that I can't see. Further more, I don't care.
I don't think that it's ignorance
It is where the fish are biting. At dog river the fish congregate in the deeper water of the channel. Most of the bay is only 12' deep and around the mouth of dog river it is often much less. But the channel acan be 20' or better and the fish like the holes. Boat traffic is not usually a big factor especially when the fish are biting. Even on the Tennessee river there are only a few large barges passing through in a day. Fish for an hour and move for a few minutes and then get back to fishing. Alabama has a boat license requirement and it still doesn't stop a wild eyed fisherman from going to the fish especially when they are biting. We have fishermen coming into the marina to fish beside the docks and boats. I think that it is legal!!!! They can't get onto the docks but as long as they stay in their boats they can go wherever there is water. I think that we should all be pleasant and not insist on "rights". If we get the government even more involved no one will be happy. You all may have noticed that passing a law usally solves no problems just creates more problems. Like the open container laws don't stop people from drinking while driving or boating it just creates litter as the drinkers toss their open and empty containers overboard or out of their car windows.
It is where the fish are biting. At dog river the fish congregate in the deeper water of the channel. Most of the bay is only 12' deep and around the mouth of dog river it is often much less. But the channel acan be 20' or better and the fish like the holes. Boat traffic is not usually a big factor especially when the fish are biting. Even on the Tennessee river there are only a few large barges passing through in a day. Fish for an hour and move for a few minutes and then get back to fishing. Alabama has a boat license requirement and it still doesn't stop a wild eyed fisherman from going to the fish especially when they are biting. We have fishermen coming into the marina to fish beside the docks and boats. I think that it is legal!!!! They can't get onto the docks but as long as they stay in their boats they can go wherever there is water. I think that we should all be pleasant and not insist on "rights". If we get the government even more involved no one will be happy. You all may have noticed that passing a law usally solves no problems just creates more problems. Like the open container laws don't stop people from drinking while driving or boating it just creates litter as the drinkers toss their open and empty containers overboard or out of their car windows.
Colregs and Channels
The comment "I don't have any qualms about exercising my rights as a vessel limited by draft to the channel" is exactly what I was talking about in my previous post. The person stating that likely doesn't HAVE any "rights as a vessel limited by draft". The Colregs concerning vessles constrained by draft were referring to large boats with deep drafts in a channel. One might could stretch it and state that it applies to sailboats (but they would have to be under power at the time), but I doubt it. I REALLY doubt they would meet all of the qualifications. Here they are: ===== Rule 3h The term "vessel constrained by her draft" means a power-driven vessel which, because of her draft in relation to the available depth and width of navigable water is severly restricted in her ability to deviate from the course she is following. Rule 18di Any vessel other than a vessel not under command or a vessel restricted in her abilty to maneuver shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, avoid impeding the safe passage of a vessel constrained by her draft, exhibiting the signals in Rule 28 Rule 28 A vessel constrained by her draft may, in addition to the lights prescribed for power-driven vessels in Rule 23, exhibit where they can best be seen three all-round red lights in a vertical line, or a cylinder. ===== So, to qualify, the sailboat would have to be under power, and would have to be displaying 3 red lights (at night) or a cylinder. Even if you ARE doing all of that, good luck making your case if there's a collision.
The comment "I don't have any qualms about exercising my rights as a vessel limited by draft to the channel" is exactly what I was talking about in my previous post. The person stating that likely doesn't HAVE any "rights as a vessel limited by draft". The Colregs concerning vessles constrained by draft were referring to large boats with deep drafts in a channel. One might could stretch it and state that it applies to sailboats (but they would have to be under power at the time), but I doubt it. I REALLY doubt they would meet all of the qualifications. Here they are: ===== Rule 3h The term "vessel constrained by her draft" means a power-driven vessel which, because of her draft in relation to the available depth and width of navigable water is severly restricted in her ability to deviate from the course she is following. Rule 18di Any vessel other than a vessel not under command or a vessel restricted in her abilty to maneuver shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, avoid impeding the safe passage of a vessel constrained by her draft, exhibiting the signals in Rule 28 Rule 28 A vessel constrained by her draft may, in addition to the lights prescribed for power-driven vessels in Rule 23, exhibit where they can best be seen three all-round red lights in a vertical line, or a cylinder. ===== So, to qualify, the sailboat would have to be under power, and would have to be displaying 3 red lights (at night) or a cylinder. Even if you ARE doing all of that, good luck making your case if there's a collision.
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