Right of way question

[Maine Sail]

My rule #1

I have my own set of rules..Rule #1 Always assume non-commercial power boats DO NOT understand the rules of the road!Rule #2 Avoid collision!!

 

[Brian D]

Fred...

I was watching her very carefully. She never looked over at me once until we were in the situation. So, yes, like I said, I assumed, therefore, I was at error. And you are 100% correct. Eye contact is very important.

 

[Ken Honeycutt]

Just checked back on this post

Thanks for all the feedback, feel better now that the concensus is that I was the stand on vessel. I thought maybe there was some obscure reg somewhere or that I had misinterpreted something when reading the COLREGS. As most of you said, it is up to the operator to avoid a collision at all costs. Usually I try to stay as far away from anyone that even looks like they are going to get close because I don't trust 90% of the boaters out there, but up until now I thought most sailboaters were better than the stinkpot drivers - know better now. In this case the guy came up fast and was sailing kind of erratically - just kept telling myself and the Admiral that I was the stand on vessel and this guy needed to change course - the whole time he just kept aiming right at me...then after the incident I started questioning whether I was in the right and he was trying to make some kind of point. The more I think about it he was probably just trying to impress his buddies with his supposed sailing acumen after a few six packs.Grizz - didn't get his license but I know it was about a 30' boat with a light blue hull.(Hooysailor - I may not beef up the bow but I may sharpen the anchor)

 

[Tim R.]

Hey!

"You scratched my Anchor!"

 

[Scott]

Ken, I'm a little confused by your diagram ...

Picturing the harbor in Chicago, if you were outside the breakwater headed in on a starboard tack, that would make the wind out of the north, right? So if the other boat was on a reach headed into the harbor would that also put him on a starboard reach? That would put you on a crossing path with both of you on starboard (I'm not questioning your judgement but when you know you are on starboard and the other boat is crossing, it is easy to assume the other is on port). If this is the scenerio, you still are stand-on because you are leeward. The ex-power boater factor may be in play also because if you both were under power and the other boat was approaching from your stbd side, the other boat would be stand-on.(Does the diagram show the gap in the breakwater and the other boat heading out or are you already inside with the other boat entering and the wind is actually from the southwest? That's why I am confused a bit ... you seem to imply that both of you are headed inside. If the diagram shows both of your boats, then even the under-power situation puts you as stand-on so the other guy is still messed-up).We actually had a poster in here recently who thought that starboard tack meant that the boat was heeled to starboard. People can get confused easily. Regardless, I would have been shaken up myself and upset with somebody who needlessly caused an un-necessary confrontation on a pleasant day. The world is full of all types!BTW, are you a city dweller or suburbanite?

 

[Pete]

Boatey-Language...

Every qualified boater, sail or power, has to be able to read and heed what I call "boatey-language. Like porno, you all know it when you see it: some jerk who probably doesn't know the rules of the road steering in such a way as to potentially put you and your boat in danger. You can pick these people out from pretty far away. Golden Rule: Get out of their way. Do it early. Do it decisively. Who cares who has the "right of way?" I care about who has the "wrong of way" and how to get out of there. Fiberglass is not fun to repair. Live to sail another day.

 

[tcbro]

Maybe he wasn't paying attention....

....and you took him by surprise. He was trying to cover up in front of his friends by making a big joke out of it. Maybe, with just a reefed main up, he assumed you were under power. Maybe he's just an a**hole. I'm starting to think we are outnumbered.

 

[Ken Honeycutt]

Scott, my deion may have been misleading

The other boat was entering the harbor - I was actually in the harbor - I was the last tack before jibing and tacking back toward the inner harbor where my boat is moored - I was crossing the entrance probably at a 150 yds so there was plenty of time for him to see me and react before he entered the harbor. The wind was from the WSW (starboard side was the windward side on my boat - I was sailing about as close to the wind as I could get). You're right about it being confusing as to what is considered a starboard or port tack - when reading the regs I made sure I knew what they were talking about - was one of the things I thought about after the encounter so I pulled out the Chapmans just to be sure I was right...I'm wondering if maybe he was confused.

 

[Ken Honeycutt]

Meant 'deion'

Jeeez, I need another weekend of sailing.

 

[Ken Honeycutt]

OK I give up,

The keyboard wins.

 

[Scott]

Ken, that makes more sense!

Of course, a windy day in late May would be absolutely unbeareable if the wind was from the north! But when it is from WSW in May, then you are getting some heat! .I lived in the city (in Sauganash) for many years before moving to NJ. I've sailed from Monroe and Montrose very often. I agree with you that there is plenty of visibility for a boat entering at the outer breakwater to see boats just inside. The other guy was wrong in every scenerio that could be considered. He was definitely confused and/or obnoxious.Last September we were visiting and we were able to rent a J-30 from Belmont Harbor for a few hours. We got to sail in some great southwesterlies. We beat upwind to North Ave. beach and reached back in a couple of times within a few hours.

 

[Scott]

Reminds me of a situation I had one time ...

(as an aside, everybody who types that word in this forum has the same outcome - it's been that way from the beginning!)Our lake is small and every weekend there is normally a lot of one design racing out of the yacht club. We are often sailing at the same time as they are racing and it is often difficult to avoid getting in the way. So one day there was a large fleet of Stars on the water. But it was apparent that their race was done or just ending way up at the northern end of where they set their markers. We're on a starboard tack in a northwest breeze heading towards the western edge of the lake. We're trying to make our way upwind and we have to tack often enough without having to throw a few extra tacks in there. One of the Stars is headed downwind with the chute up and the main on the port side. At first we are far apart but we are closing very fast because those Stars are a fast boat when the spinnaker is up.I know that I am stand-on because I am on starboard tack and the leeward boat, so it doesn't matter that he is on a starboard reach (or run). But he keeps heading right at me and I'm figuring that he doesn't want to veer to port because it means gybing the main and changing the spinnaker. But I don't want to change direction either because bearing off would be heading for dead air and tacking isn't what I wanted to do either. When we were far apart, it was evident we were on a collision course and I figured a small adjustment by the other boat would solve the problem, but as we drew closer, it was evident that a change in course by them would mean that a gybe would be necessary.We just kept getting closer with their boat moving almost twice as fast as us. Finally, when I had just about enough of this game of chicken, he dropped the chute and gybed to (his) port (behind us) and continued back to the yacht club with a wave. If they were still involved in a race, I would have stayed clear long before just because I don't like to needlessly interfere. But this guy was so far out in front of the rest of the fleet, it was obvious that the race had ended upwind where all the rest of the boats still were.

 

[PHitchcox]

Then there are the unwritten Admiral's rules

I noticed there was a short reference to the Admiral. I have to admit, when I'm sailing by myself, I try to stay official; if I'm stand on, then I stay my course as I'm supposed to (and of course still avoid a collision).BUT, when the admiral is aboard, there are some unwritten rules. It's kind of similar to avoiding a speeding ticket - never speed. To avoid getting the Admiral into any situation that might even come close to a collision, never even get close to that situation in the first place. I know its easier said then done (and yes I've had plenty of speeding tickets), but I have noticed the significant difference in our relationship by changing course early and never even coming close to a collision versus holding my ground and getting too close. Many an evening at anchor was saved without her ever knowing some #$%^& was bearing down on us.All good points that have been brought up, but there's a missing chapter in the regs that will never be written - keep the Admiral happy.Paul

 

[Liam]

Always give way

I watch everyone and give them all a wide berth.We have a charter club in the harbor. Those people are the absolutely most dangerous things a-float.I know that we all had to start somewhere, but ,I for one, started on small boats and worked my way up as my skills advanced. I have been sailing for 30 years and can say without question that I was not capable of handling anything much bigger than 25 feet my first couple of years.These are people with very limited experience or training (except for the charter companies extensive 4 hour "let's go sailing" course) who are chartering 35-50 foot boats and are quite often out of control. I have learned to recognize the boats in the fleet and steer way clear of them.I mean like half a mile way clear!

 

[Joseph Shirley]

Sandy and Fred, A quickie answer

Sandy, The race I was describing was under much older rules which allowed the 720 degree turn regardless of advantage, and non serious contact was the norm in racing. I used to say that contact was putting the exclamation mark on the protest. Only serious damage was disqualifying and 720 turns were thought to be a significant penalty. The rules have changed a lot since I've been racing.Fred, hollering port never phased me. I would just grin and do whatever I had to do. I did make a lot of people nervous though because if I was slightly ahead on Port I would tack close aboard to get a lee bow lift off the stbd boat, and If I was a little behind I would fall off ever so slightly, to cross close aboard the stern of the stbs tack boat. I was much more hard nose in those days. Now I'm just a cruiser.Have fun.Joe S

 

[Rozknows]

Obstruction?

Unless there was an obstruction to the port tack boat's lee, he/she must stand clear.

 

[Fred Ficarra7897]

Joe,

I don't remember you being behind, except to me and Ben, of course.

 

[Joseph Shirley]

Fred, what can I say? You can't win them all. --- Rozknows, even if there were

Port tack boat must give way. An obstruction gives the give way boat the right to call for room to tack, to avoid the obstruction and generally applies to boats on the same tack. In this case, the port tack boat could tack to starboard to clear an obstruction to leeward, so the obstruction would not influence the rule.Joe S

 

[JungleJetJock]

alway

Always assume the other guy is an idiot because the world is full of them.I had a little run in the weekend myself with a wake board boat. I had set me anchor in some shallow water and ran a bunch of rode out so as to hold 2 boats. A friend rafted up to my starboard side and a little while later an unknown sailor with his family came into the cove and anchored about 300 feet away. After a couple hours of a nice evening some @$$ in a wake board boat, one of those with the giant speaker pods and shitty music, came blasting by. They then decided to make a circuit across all anchor lines and around out boats, creating a washing machine affect. They kept doing it and flipping us the bird when we yelled at them. My friend nearly shot them with his flare gun. That was the worst combination, an idiot ********.

 

[Ken Honeycutt]

Maybe one good benefit of high gas prices

Is that idiots like that wakeboarder won't be able to afford the price - these and the gawdawful cigarette boats.