I have a 1977 Catalina 30 tall rig. Great boat. I want to rig the main and jib halyard to the cockpit. Would also like to rig jiffy reef and toping lift line to cockpit. I am looking for the length of halyards needed to do this and it looks like I would need to place some kind of block on the mast at the bottom to route the halyards back to the cockpit. What are the options to securing the halyards at the cockpit area? What are the actual diameters of the halyards used on the Cat 30? These halyards are all external to the mast. Im not sure how to achieve this and would like to discuss it with someone that has done this for this model boat. I will be taking the mast down in the spring to replace wiring, checking standing rigging, and replacing halyards ans sheeves. Any ideas and information would be appreciated. Thanks.
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A Couple of Comments
I can't answer all of your questions, but I do have some suggestions: 1. Install a mast plate under the foot of your mast. This is a bracket that has mounting holes for your halyard blocks and is preferable to drilling holes in your mast or deck for pad eyes. 2. Invest in quality, ball bearing turning blocks at the get-go (I have to replace some of mine where I skimped). If you don't, you'll be disappointed with all of the friction that will build up. 3. Garhauer is a good source for hardware. They supply what Catalina uses on new boats and will know which items to use for each purpose, including all of the blocks and rope clutches, etc. When choosing your multi-sheave turning blocks (aka deck organizers) for your deck, think about getting ones with one more sheave than you need if possible. If you need 2 or 3 sheaves, buy one with 3 or 4. That will give you flexibility for the future for a moderate increase in cost. 4. Try to minimize the acuteness of your angles (minimizes friction). 5. I wouldn't rely on others' measurements, do your own. Your layout may vary and you may prefer longer or shorter tails. The easiest way to do this is to work from your existing halyards. You can tie a line onto the end and run it back to the cockpit, thereby estimating how much additional length you'll need. When the sails are down, you'll want enough of a tail to wrap around your winch and still have a good 4'- 5' or so to grab onto. 6. Get rid of the topping lift and install a rigid boom vang while you're at it. You'll eliminate one line this way (again, Garhauer). Use the money you'll save on additional hardware to contribute toward the cost of the rigid vang. 7. For securing the lines in the cockpit, you'll use a combination of rope clutches, cam cleats and/or jam cleats. Some of this is a matter of preference, but I'd definitely use rope clutches for the halyards themselves. 8. I had to modify the teak risers for my mainsheet traveler by cutting a "tunnel" into their bases to be able to run the halyards underneath the risers. This was preferable to drilling holes and isn't too difficult. 9. Check out some newer C30's to get an idea on placement, but understand that you probably won't be able to duplicate it perfectly. If your experience is anything like mine (1981 C30, standard rig), you'll be a little disappointed as to how difficult and slow it is to raise the sails compared to working at the base of the mast. This is all due to friction. I've left my mast winches in place and they've been a lifesaver when I needed to move fast. I've included a link to Garhauer and, no, I don't work for them, I just like their stuff and their prices.
I can't answer all of your questions, but I do have some suggestions: 1. Install a mast plate under the foot of your mast. This is a bracket that has mounting holes for your halyard blocks and is preferable to drilling holes in your mast or deck for pad eyes. 2. Invest in quality, ball bearing turning blocks at the get-go (I have to replace some of mine where I skimped). If you don't, you'll be disappointed with all of the friction that will build up. 3. Garhauer is a good source for hardware. They supply what Catalina uses on new boats and will know which items to use for each purpose, including all of the blocks and rope clutches, etc. When choosing your multi-sheave turning blocks (aka deck organizers) for your deck, think about getting ones with one more sheave than you need if possible. If you need 2 or 3 sheaves, buy one with 3 or 4. That will give you flexibility for the future for a moderate increase in cost. 4. Try to minimize the acuteness of your angles (minimizes friction). 5. I wouldn't rely on others' measurements, do your own. Your layout may vary and you may prefer longer or shorter tails. The easiest way to do this is to work from your existing halyards. You can tie a line onto the end and run it back to the cockpit, thereby estimating how much additional length you'll need. When the sails are down, you'll want enough of a tail to wrap around your winch and still have a good 4'- 5' or so to grab onto. 6. Get rid of the topping lift and install a rigid boom vang while you're at it. You'll eliminate one line this way (again, Garhauer). Use the money you'll save on additional hardware to contribute toward the cost of the rigid vang. 7. For securing the lines in the cockpit, you'll use a combination of rope clutches, cam cleats and/or jam cleats. Some of this is a matter of preference, but I'd definitely use rope clutches for the halyards themselves. 8. I had to modify the teak risers for my mainsheet traveler by cutting a "tunnel" into their bases to be able to run the halyards underneath the risers. This was preferable to drilling holes and isn't too difficult. 9. Check out some newer C30's to get an idea on placement, but understand that you probably won't be able to duplicate it perfectly. If your experience is anything like mine (1981 C30, standard rig), you'll be a little disappointed as to how difficult and slow it is to raise the sails compared to working at the base of the mast. This is all due to friction. I've left my mast winches in place and they've been a lifesaver when I needed to move fast. I've included a link to Garhauer and, no, I don't work for them, I just like their stuff and their prices.
J
jOHN
THANK YOU
Bob, You certainly gave me a wealth of information. I will use your comments as a guide. I expect to accomplish this work next spring and so I will acquire the hardware this winter. That is an excellant suggestion on the halyard length estimates. My admiral is quite interested in keeping me in the cockpit. She doesnt want to lose me overboard and have to pilot the vessle herself! Being a senior sailor, the ability to control lines from the cockpit is inviting. Thanks again.
Bob, You certainly gave me a wealth of information. I will use your comments as a guide. I expect to accomplish this work next spring and so I will acquire the hardware this winter. That is an excellant suggestion on the halyard length estimates. My admiral is quite interested in keeping me in the cockpit. She doesnt want to lose me overboard and have to pilot the vessle herself! Being a senior sailor, the ability to control lines from the cockpit is inviting. Thanks again.
One other suggestion
If you don't have them already, install lazy jacks. They're great for holding the loose main while you raise it, douse it or reef. No need to buy an expensive kit, you can make your own out of small dacron cord. A jib downhaul would be nice as well. I know what you mean about the safety advantage of staying in the cockpit. It's especially nice when you need to douse or reef in a hurry under less than ideal conditions.
If you don't have them already, install lazy jacks. They're great for holding the loose main while you raise it, douse it or reef. No need to buy an expensive kit, you can make your own out of small dacron cord. A jib downhaul would be nice as well. I know what you mean about the safety advantage of staying in the cockpit. It's especially nice when you need to douse or reef in a hurry under less than ideal conditions.
P
Peter
Rigging stuff...
Bob, nice to see you on the forum again. Haven't heard from you for awhile! I've got a C27 that I re-rigged about 12 years ago with all lines aft (incl. main/jib/spin halyards, 1st/2nd reefs, downhauls on jib AND MAIN, as well as lazy jacks on the main). With this setup, no need to ever climb over the dodger to go forward after you leave the dock. I can douse, set or reef while singlehanded in less than a minute. Just get in your "thinking chair" on the dock by your boat, take a notepad and a beer, and spend a few hours over a couple weekends (so you have time to re-think it as you're driving in your commute mid-week) and you'll figure out how it will all work. Then go back to the boat the next weekend and re-think what might screw it up before you start to drill holes. You won't be 100% right, but you'll be a lot closer than if you just go with the first thought... And "CatalinaDirect.com" in Sacramento CA has lots of options on chainplates, sheaves, and other rigging stuff specific to Catalinas. Where are you on Lake Erie? I learned to sail at Sandusky Sailing CLub, Sandusky, OH, and Erie YC in Erie PA. Been in CA for about 35 years though...
Bob, nice to see you on the forum again. Haven't heard from you for awhile! I've got a C27 that I re-rigged about 12 years ago with all lines aft (incl. main/jib/spin halyards, 1st/2nd reefs, downhauls on jib AND MAIN, as well as lazy jacks on the main). With this setup, no need to ever climb over the dodger to go forward after you leave the dock. I can douse, set or reef while singlehanded in less than a minute. Just get in your "thinking chair" on the dock by your boat, take a notepad and a beer, and spend a few hours over a couple weekends (so you have time to re-think it as you're driving in your commute mid-week) and you'll figure out how it will all work. Then go back to the boat the next weekend and re-think what might screw it up before you start to drill holes. You won't be 100% right, but you'll be a lot closer than if you just go with the first thought... And "CatalinaDirect.com" in Sacramento CA has lots of options on chainplates, sheaves, and other rigging stuff specific to Catalinas. Where are you on Lake Erie? I learned to sail at Sandusky Sailing CLub, Sandusky, OH, and Erie YC in Erie PA. Been in CA for about 35 years though...
J
John
Yeah, I hear you
Peter. Thanks to you and Bob for the ideas and discussion. It does worry me about drilling holes only to find out that there was a better set up if only I had thought more about it. Since Im in Erie, Pa and winter is approaching, I now have time to "armchair it" and get good advice from folks tha have been there. I was looking things over today as the boat is on the hard. i took your advice to measure the halyards back to the cockpit. I noticed that the jib halyard has to be long enough to reach the bow pulpit to fasten to the jib initially. I have roller furling and once rhe genny is hoisted, it probably will remain that way for the season. The P.O. apparently ran lines back to the cockpit at one time. There is a good sized hole bored through the port side traveler riser block. There is a halyard lift turning block deck mounted that brings a line directly back through the port side riser hole. However, I dont think it was for the jib halyard (which naturally falls on the port side) because there is no provision for a redirection block on the mast. (sorry for the confusing dialouge). I see that the jib halyard appears to be about a 3/8 dia. while the main looks like a 1/2 inch dia. There are two winches mounted on the cabin top (port & starbord)which could be used to assist in raising the sails. I am planning on using lazy jacks as you have mentioned. However, I am trying to decide on the standard lazy jack arrangement or the Easy Jack arrangement where the jacks can be moved forward to the mast and tnen deployed from the cockpit when lowering the main. So, this long story is toooo long. The end goal is to run the lines as correctly as possible and I will garner your thoughts on all of this. While I have the mast down in the spring, i will be adding a new masthead light, steaming light, new wiring, lazy jack hardware, wind speed and direction sensors, and radio coax wire and cleaning up the alumin. surface. I have lots of oxidation which is getting on the sails. So, hopefully I will get this all done including inspection of the standing rigging connections. I bought this boat from a sailor on the Grand River in Ohio. The Cat 30 (1977) had three P.O.s. The last one did not take care of it. However, it is solid, a great handler and my wife and I just love to sail it. We had a columbia 28 16 yrs ago and a 32 ft double ender that was wood and made in Canada in 45. (Learnd to sail on it)Now in our "senior" years we plan on hoisting the main as often as possible. I met an 82 yr old sailor yesterday that recently returned for San Fran after 35 yrs. He helped to Pipe fit the Transamerica bldg. in your area. I can but hope to still be "coming about" at that age. So, thanks again and If you have additional thoughts, Im all ears. BTW, The Erie Y.C. is still going strong. I am morred at the Penninsula marina (Presque Isle). Fair winds....
Peter. Thanks to you and Bob for the ideas and discussion. It does worry me about drilling holes only to find out that there was a better set up if only I had thought more about it. Since Im in Erie, Pa and winter is approaching, I now have time to "armchair it" and get good advice from folks tha have been there. I was looking things over today as the boat is on the hard. i took your advice to measure the halyards back to the cockpit. I noticed that the jib halyard has to be long enough to reach the bow pulpit to fasten to the jib initially. I have roller furling and once rhe genny is hoisted, it probably will remain that way for the season. The P.O. apparently ran lines back to the cockpit at one time. There is a good sized hole bored through the port side traveler riser block. There is a halyard lift turning block deck mounted that brings a line directly back through the port side riser hole. However, I dont think it was for the jib halyard (which naturally falls on the port side) because there is no provision for a redirection block on the mast. (sorry for the confusing dialouge). I see that the jib halyard appears to be about a 3/8 dia. while the main looks like a 1/2 inch dia. There are two winches mounted on the cabin top (port & starbord)which could be used to assist in raising the sails. I am planning on using lazy jacks as you have mentioned. However, I am trying to decide on the standard lazy jack arrangement or the Easy Jack arrangement where the jacks can be moved forward to the mast and tnen deployed from the cockpit when lowering the main. So, this long story is toooo long. The end goal is to run the lines as correctly as possible and I will garner your thoughts on all of this. While I have the mast down in the spring, i will be adding a new masthead light, steaming light, new wiring, lazy jack hardware, wind speed and direction sensors, and radio coax wire and cleaning up the alumin. surface. I have lots of oxidation which is getting on the sails. So, hopefully I will get this all done including inspection of the standing rigging connections. I bought this boat from a sailor on the Grand River in Ohio. The Cat 30 (1977) had three P.O.s. The last one did not take care of it. However, it is solid, a great handler and my wife and I just love to sail it. We had a columbia 28 16 yrs ago and a 32 ft double ender that was wood and made in Canada in 45. (Learnd to sail on it)Now in our "senior" years we plan on hoisting the main as often as possible. I met an 82 yr old sailor yesterday that recently returned for San Fran after 35 yrs. He helped to Pipe fit the Transamerica bldg. in your area. I can but hope to still be "coming about" at that age. So, thanks again and If you have additional thoughts, Im all ears. BTW, The Erie Y.C. is still going strong. I am morred at the Penninsula marina (Presque Isle). Fair winds....
I got EZ-Jacks and love them
If you are having questions about standard lazy jacks vs EZ-Jacks, I bought and nstalles a set of EZ-Jacks on my C-320 this year. I'm still learning exactly how tight / loose to deploy them for optimal functionality, but think they're great. The cost of the EZ-Jacks was comparable to what I could find for other lazy jack systems (Harken and Schaffer), but really like being able to get the strings out of the way for both raising the sails and for sailing once the sails are up. I un-deployed the Dutchman system that came with the boat (when I bought a new mainsail), so that was another option that I rejected. There is another manufacturer of a lazy jack system that looks a lot like the EZ-Jacks called JiffyJax. You might want to consider them too. As for your traveler, (which I didn't see you comment on), you might be very well served by removing the stock curved traveler and track and replacing them with a new Garhauer system. The primary reason for this is that the curved track tightens the leach of the sail when you drop the traveler to leward during a puff. This is exactly the opposite of what you want. In addition, the traveler with the curved track is at best hard to adjust, and the Garhauer traveler system (including new stand-offs) is a dream to adjust. Steve Alchemist C-30T #4764 Alchemist C-320 #909
If you are having questions about standard lazy jacks vs EZ-Jacks, I bought and nstalles a set of EZ-Jacks on my C-320 this year. I'm still learning exactly how tight / loose to deploy them for optimal functionality, but think they're great. The cost of the EZ-Jacks was comparable to what I could find for other lazy jack systems (Harken and Schaffer), but really like being able to get the strings out of the way for both raising the sails and for sailing once the sails are up. I un-deployed the Dutchman system that came with the boat (when I bought a new mainsail), so that was another option that I rejected. There is another manufacturer of a lazy jack system that looks a lot like the EZ-Jacks called JiffyJax. You might want to consider them too. As for your traveler, (which I didn't see you comment on), you might be very well served by removing the stock curved traveler and track and replacing them with a new Garhauer system. The primary reason for this is that the curved track tightens the leach of the sail when you drop the traveler to leward during a puff. This is exactly the opposite of what you want. In addition, the traveler with the curved track is at best hard to adjust, and the Garhauer traveler system (including new stand-offs) is a dream to adjust. Steve Alchemist C-30T #4764 Alchemist C-320 #909
G
Glenn
Lazy Jacks and rigid vang
Bob and Steve, you guys confirm my thoughts on the Dutchman and topping lift. My 84 C30 has the Dutchman flaking, PO installed new rigging from deck up including new sails in 2002. I hate the Dutchman while sailing as I can never get it loose enough to let the main curve smoothly, it is also the topping lift. I have the Garhauer rigid vang on my wish list which I plan on getting in the spring. Bottom job first this winter. John, you will be pleased with Garhauer equipment. The PO installed new Garhauer vang and main sheet system. I replace the jib/genoa sheet blocks this summer with Garhauer after the original blocks gave up.
Bob and Steve, you guys confirm my thoughts on the Dutchman and topping lift. My 84 C30 has the Dutchman flaking, PO installed new rigging from deck up including new sails in 2002. I hate the Dutchman while sailing as I can never get it loose enough to let the main curve smoothly, it is also the topping lift. I have the Garhauer rigid vang on my wish list which I plan on getting in the spring. Bottom job first this winter. John, you will be pleased with Garhauer equipment. The PO installed new Garhauer vang and main sheet system. I replace the jib/genoa sheet blocks this summer with Garhauer after the original blocks gave up.
J
John
Another thank you
Wow!. Thanks to all and thank you Glenn. with all this input, I feel confidant that I will double my sailing pleasure next season. I have all winter to dream about it. Your seasoned advice will save me and the admiral a lot of missteps. You guys should write a book for folks like me. enjoy the sailing on the west coast & in texas. John
Wow!. Thanks to all and thank you Glenn. with all this input, I feel confidant that I will double my sailing pleasure next season. I have all winter to dream about it. Your seasoned advice will save me and the admiral a lot of missteps. You guys should write a book for folks like me. enjoy the sailing on the west coast & in texas. John
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