Rigging for asymmetrical spinnaker

[Kermit]

Santa Claus brought us a custom-made asymmetrical spinnaker for our 1986 Hunter 23. I have put in in a sock.

I have done as much research as I know to do and have come up with a few things I think need to be done.

Apparently it's possible to use the spinnaker with the jib halyard just as it is exiting the mast just below the roller furler. The problem with that is the chance of chafing and maybe even limited movement of the sail once it's flying. The advantage is I don't have to modify the rigging at all. I have an extra halyard that came with the boat. We can add that if possible but I don't think there's an extra access point at the bottom of the mast for a 3rd halyard. That leaves rerouting the jib halyard to the top of the mast. One person said I would need to add a turning block just above the forestay. Is this necessary? If so, what hardware do I need for the block? Speaking of the masthead, I read a post somewhere that said adding a crane to the masthead would be helpful. What do y'all think of that?

One thing I'm pretty dang sure I need is a cleat for the tack line. There is a winch just forward of the cockpit for the main halyard. I think there is room to add another cleat just like the one for the main right next to it. This seems to be the logical place so I can use the winch when necessary. Will I need any new blocks or padeyes or fairleads between the bow and the cleat? There is already a block at the bow. It comes up from the anchor locker.

I'm attaching pictures so y'all can see the layout of my boat. I can send more pictures if anyone needs them. I would greatly appreciate any advice in addition to the questions I've asked. I'm pretty dang excited about flying my spinnaker!

We wanted to hoist the spinnaker at the dock last weekend when the wind was calm, but just as soon as we got it in the sock a big wind came up. So we decided not to try it. Can't wait to fly it so I can post pictures.

Thanks for your help!

 

[njmedic3306]

I am interested to see what replies you get. I just bought my boat last month and I guess it has a symmetrical spinnaker since there was a pole but I have no clue where to start. The previous owner never flew it, but it looks nice.

 

[Bill Roosa]

Mast stuff

Your jib halyard line exits in a fashion that will guarantee the parting of the line in short order if you try and place loads on it from any other direction except downward. Asymmetricals place just such side loads so you will need to jin up something that does the following:
The halyard must go up the mast and exit through a fixed block.
Upon exiting it will be headed down toward the deck.
Below the halyard exit install a swivel block to allow the free turning of the halyard to either the left or right and away from the mast.
They have these at the marine stores and they just bolt/screw/rivet on. The problem is your halyard exit is very close to the jib stay attachment point. This would require you to mount the swivel block below the jib stay. That is going to force you to jibe the asymmetric inside the stay vs outside the stay. Jibing inside is the normal jib jibe, outside is where you take the lazy sheet forward of the stay and allow the sail to blow forward of the boat before pulling it in on the other tack. That may or may not work for you. If you can't jibe from inside the stay then you HAVE to have the swivel block above the jib stay. That is going to REQUIRE that the block that turns the halyard out of the mast be moved higher so you have room for the swivel block. They also have these at the marine stores and they are pretty easy to install with the mast un-stepped.:cry:
Also note that whatever you decide on at the top of the mast drives your configuration at the bottom of the jib stay. So if you go with inside jibing you have to have the sail tack also “inside” the stay.
Also, also, consider how you are going to attach the tack attachment to the stay. It is important to get the sail tack close to the centerline of the boat and just tightening on the tack is not the way to accomplish that when you want a big baggy sail. You need an additional attachment point that rides on the stay. I find a short cable loop with eyes on both ends that can attach to the sail tack snap shackle to work fine. Just put some golf balls on it (drill and slip them on BEFORE putting the last eye on the cable) to allow it to slide freely and not rip the jib

 

[Kermit]

Re: Mast stuff

Thanks for the GREAT reply. This seems to be detailed enough for me to carry on now. Your reply looks like it may help njmedic with his symmetrical spinnaker, too.
Kermit

 

[seadaddler]

Bill Roosa

I just got a Doyle APC asymmetrical for my 36 Hunter and have the extra haylard exit above the jib forstay and have all the equipment blocks, sheets,tacker but no block at the haylard exit top of mast,do you have photo' of what this block looks like installed or more info.
There are lots of video's on the internet using the asymmetrical.
Nick

 

[Kermit]

I thought there was a pulley inside the masthead for another halyard. Upon closer inspection, that opening looks alarmingly empty. The masthead seems to be riveted on, too! Yikes!!! Dang!!! Anyone want to come to Wateree Lake, SC and help figure this thing out?

I've searched and searched for rigging-specific spinnaker videos. The best I can find show you how to fly them (and how not to fly them) but nothing about modifying your boat to accommodate the spinnaker rigging.

The picture attached is about as good a closeup of the masthead as I have. I sure wish the pulley were more obvious. (Sorry about using the word pulley. I'm still learning the correct "termage".)

 

[Bill Roosa]

Blocks needed

http://www.harkenstore.com/uniface.urd/SCCYSPW1
See the picture for the HC9985. It attaches to the mast with a pad eye below the halyard exit. Line enters from above and exits to whatever angle needed as the pad eye and shackle allow it to take up whatever angle needed. You do need to make sure your attachment means is strong enough to take the max load both pulling it straight out and trying to shear the bolts/screws off. Harken has some documents on how to figure the load.
There are more elegant solutions that have both blocks incorporated into a single "in mast" unit but that would be something you would have to get from your mast manufacturer.

 

[Bill Roosa]

bad link try this

http://www.harkenstore.com/uniface.urd/scpdinw1.ShowProd?409Z56LC4VRQM

 

[Bill Roosa]

worst casing the mast head attachment

You can always run a line around the mast, hold it in place with several pad eyes and use that to attach the block. It ain't pretty but it sure is strong and simple. gives you maximun options on placement also.

 

[Clark]

It wasn't quite clear from the picture and your statement as to whether you have a sheave in that exit point. You said it was "empty" . . meaning no sheave? Are there holes for a sheave axle? Kinda looks that way but not clear. One way of getting an idea as to how it is supposed to be rigged is to check with the spar builder. Z-Spar? Selden? ??

An alternative is to install a strap up there to which a swivel block is attached and then run your spinnaker halyard outside of the mast to a cleat on the mast about head high. You'll need to be on the foredeck anyway to attach your sheets and halyard to the socked spinnaker so you could just raise it while you're up there and cleat it off.

 

[Kermit]

Here's a different angle. Cropped pretty severely from a distant shot. I don't see an axle or even holes for one. DANG! Looks like the outside method is gonna hafta be it.

I have no idea who built the spars or anything else on this boat other than Hunter. The last time I called them about something (the galley) the young guy told me the boat is older than he is so he couldn't help me. Sheese.

Let me know if you see something in the picture that I don't. Thanks for your help!

 

[isaksp00]

I have an H23, no spinnakers though. My mast is a Z-spar, but is tapered at the top - so maybe you have a Selden? or at least a different Z-spar model.

If I were you, I'd want to have the halyard outside the forestay. That means you either rig a swivel block attached up above the forestay (as suggested) and run it down outside the mast, or if you want, you could drill out the pop rivets on the mast cap/crane, and then use a rotary tool like a Dremel to create an exit in the front of the mast above the stay, much like that in place for the existing jib halyard.

Looks like the furler (is that a CDI?) doesn't use a halyard - mine is a Harken, which requires the halyard to hold up the swivel, which in turn holds up the jib. If that halyard is truly unused, moving it to exit higher up should be OK. You'd obviously have to get some kind of exit fitting to rivet into the new exit hole, and also pop rivet the cap/crane back on. I think the heavier duty pop rivet tools are not too expensive - maybe 20 or 25 dollars?

 

[Alan]

Let me try and shed a little light on this subject. First off, you cannot use a jib halyard for any 'flying' sail. A flying sail means it does not attach to the forestay. As someone has already mentioned, using the jib halyard will chafe it through in no time. Second, the H23 is a fractional rigged boat. Without some additional support at the masthead all flying sails should attach to the mast in close proximity to the hounds (attachment point of the headstay). This means that the mast sheave for your spinnaker halyard should exit the mast just above the hounds. Installing a new spinnaker mast sheave is a relatively easy operation. You can do it with the mast up but the 23 mast is so easy to drop it would pay to do it on the ground. I added a spinnaker sheave to my mast while it was up simply because dropping a 55' stick is a project I didn't want to tackle. Cut a slot in the leading edge of the mast and install the sheave. Drop the halyard down the inside of the mast over the sheave. Cut an exit slot in the mast about 7 or 8 feet off the deck and install an exit plate on the mast. You can install a cleat below the exit plate or run the halyard back to the cockpit. Personally I prefer the cleat on the mast because you can control the hoist and douse while gathering sail right from the deck.
Attached is a pic of a typical sheave box.

 

[Kermit]

The only thing I have used the jib halyard for is stepping and unstepping the mast. I would hope that I can still use it for that once I've rerouted it. If my father was right about "the lazy man should always carry his end of the board as close to the end as possible," the rerouted halyard should work even better at stepping and unstepping the mast.

Yes, it's a CDI furler. The sail itself has a halyard but I've never taken the sail off the furler. Doing so should take some weight off when stepping and unstepping the mast.

 

[Kermit]

I posted my previous reply before realizing Alan had submitted his post. Thanks for the detailed instructions. Sounds like the best long-term solution.

Thanks!

 

[Kermit]

Alan,
Do you recommend using a turning block between the sheave and the headstay? Another poster said this is critical.
Thanks!

 

[Alan]

I like the Holt Allen low profile sheave box. It is made of high pressure die cast aluminum casing and incorporates special side flanges to minimize friction and rope wear. I use spectra for my halyards which is particularly immune to chafe damage. This setup eliminates the need for additional blocks and gear hanging from the mast. The HA 15 would be a good choice for boats up to about 25'
However, if you use another setup or your halyards are not as chafe safe then an articulating block may be needed to handle this problem.

 

[Kermit]

Alan,
Thanks for the info. I'll have to print what you wrote and take it to West Marine or look all this up online. I have no idea what brand halyard I have. It was on the boat when I bought it. I don't use the jib halyard except for mast stepping and unstepping. There is a brand-new halyard below that the previous owner bought as a spare for the main halyard. I may go ahead and use it when rerouting this halyard.

Thanks for your help. I can't wait to post pictures of our cool new spinnaker. It looks just like the SC state flag. We South Carolinians are very "statriotic."

Kermit

 

[isaksp00]

No reason why you shouldn't be able to use the newly positioned halyard for stepping.