rigging corrosion

[Bob 04 H260]

Our boat was in fresh water for 9 years and in Florida salt water for the last 3 years.
I have a rigger doing an inspection today So far he says we have bad corrosion on the outer shroud lower swagged fittings. He has not looked at the upper part of the mast yet.
He has not suggested we change the rigging yet but he seems to be going in that direction.
Any pictures I have seen that show a problem there are actual cracks in the swagged fittings when they were changed. I don't have any idea what is considered normal and dangerous for these. We do not have a lot of rust bleeding out of the top of the fitting that see on many boats, so surprised he thinks these are that bad.
The pictures below are the worst areas he identified.
Anyone have any advice on when these need to be changed?

Bob

 

[kloudie1]

Kinda hard to tell without a pretty high magnification. It looks a lot like external surface pitting but it is in a dangerous location. Do you have covers over these normally? If so that might explain the corrosion.. It is worrisome because it is hard to tell how deep the corrosion goes. Ask the rigger about using a very fine wheel on something like a Dremel .. If the defect is surface only, it should disappear pretty quickly.. if not, those need to be replaced. They can be replaced with slightly longer fittings (reusing wire and the other fitting) that don't have to be swedged; fittings like Norseman (there are some others ) work very well when correctly applied.. Otherwise, new wire and fittings. The middle picture looks the worst. The others look like surface corrosion in a groove or deep scratch left by the swedging machine. These will eventually grow into a crack if the corrosion continues. If you aren't comfortable inspecting these yearly then they should be replaced now.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Let's see, a total of 12 years. Water corrodes, salt water corrodes absolutely.

It's kinda like reefing: if you think you should, why not do it?

What's your rig and boat worth to you?

We bought our-then 12 year old boat in 1998, been in salt water all its life, redid the rigging pretty soon after we bought the boat.

It's like insurance, and good thing to do.

 

[Eddie7045]

Bob, welcome to ocean sailing. Yes, the corrosive

effects of salty air and sea spray are brutal on metal, much more so than those not familiar with a marine environment would expect. Once when doing period maintenance on a 27 ft Catalina we removed the 6 turnbuckles to inspect, clean. and coat with preventative. In that process 3 of them broke upon removal and had to be replaced. Corrosion is just something that just comes with the territory. Good luck.

 

[Bob 04 H260]

Kinda hard to tell without a pretty high magnification. It looks a lot like external surface pitting but it is in a dangerous location. Do you have covers over these normally? If so that might explain the corrosion.. It is worrisome because it is hard to tell how deep the corrosion goes. Ask the surveyor about using a very fine wheel on something like a Dremel .. If the defect is surface only, it should disappear pretty quickly.. if not, those need to be replaced. They can be replaced with slightly longer fittings (reusing wire and the other fitting) that don't have to be swedged; fittings like Norseman (there are some others ) work very well when correctly applied.. Otherwise, new wire and fittings. The middle picture looks the worst. The others look like surface corrosion in a groove or deep scratch left by the swedging machine. These will eventually grow into a crack if the corrosion continues. If you aren't comfortable inspecting these yearly then they should be replaced now.

Claude, thanks for your opinion. That was the kind of advice I was looking for.

I have no problem replacing something that needs to be replaced. The reason I posted it was that I am trying to educate myself a bit I don't want to have to call in a rigger for a $200 inspection when there is no problem.

Any of the pictures on the internet of fittings that needed replacement seemed to be badly rusted and cracked, anyone with a half a brain would replace it.

In this case it was more subtle. If the boat had been in salt water for 10 or 12 years it would have been an easier decision he said. The rigger called in his boss for a consult.

They could not tell if the pitting was only on the outside or was coming through from the inside of these fittings. The rest of the fittings all appear to be OK at this time.Because it is a B&R rig and these are the two outside stays at the chainplate the suggestion was to err on the side of caution and replace these two fittings with two Stay Lok fittings that have a longer body and so the whole shroud will not need to be replaced and it can be done in the slip.

He spent the whole day here, it was very thorough inspection.

Bob

 

[FastOlson]

Let's see, a total of 12 years. Water corrodes, salt water corrodes absolutely.

It's kinda like reefing: if you think you should, why not do it?

What's your rig and boat worth to you?

We bought our-then 12 year old boat in 1998, been in salt water all its life, redid the rigging pretty soon after we bought the boat.

It's like insurance, and good thing to do.

Stu is Absolutely Right!

 

[kloudie1]

Good news, Bob.. The Stay-Locs and Norseman fittings are very similar; both are as strong as or stronger than the original swedged fittings.. Sounds like you've got a trustworthy rigger !.. I spent a lot of my career as an engineer evaluating and inspecting rigging, and I would be doing exactly the same as your rigger has suggested if I couldn't figure out the corrosion attack..

 

[woodster]

He spent the whole day here, it was very thorough inspection.

Bob

not to hijack your thread but two things .....1...did you notice how he was rigged up with the block and tackle to get up the mast ...i like that arrangement above all the others i have used in the past....

2.....i assume he is a seasoned pro but i don't see a safety line tied to him in either of the pics....while its OK for him its not OK for You and I to not have one....

regards

woody

 

[Bob 04 H260]

Good news, Bob.. The Stay-Locs and Norseman fittings are very similar; both are as strong as or stronger than the original swedged fittings.. Sounds like you've got a trustworthy rigger !.. I spent a lot of my career as an engineer evaluating and inspecting rigging, and I would be doing exactly the same as your rigger has suggested if I couldn't figure out the corrosion attack..

Claude, yes I am happy with the rigger, he is with MAC Sails here in Stuart. A company with a good reputation. I was certainly not questioning his expertise, just trying to find out what others might have experienced having their rigging inspected. How they came to the decision on whether it needed to be changed. I intend to cut these fitting open after they come off the boat to learn more about what may or may not have been going on inside.

He said swagged fittings loose a lot of their strength because of the stresses put into the wire and fitting in the swagging process as I am sure you know. When the rigging is changed I will look at using these Stay Lok fittings on all the bottoms of the wires so they can be opened and inspected properly, that seems to be where the problems occur.

I installed a Stay Lok fitting on the forestay of my last boat when I added a Johnson Lever and had to shorten the wire by about 8 inches. They are a slick bit of engineering !

thanks again, Bob

PS he did not use a second safety line, I don't go up the mast so not an issue for me

 

[Delezynski]

JUST did a full replacement of our rigging. LOOK AT the Hi-Mod fittings!!!
MUCH better than Stay-Locs and Norseman fittings.

DO IT YOURSELF! Easy to do.....
See my YouTube short video on it at;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGQuj2yS5xE&feature=share&list=UUyGH1-xOhCotpV_zhSzQq7g

Greg

 

[DianaOfBurlington]

Vote for the rigger.

Bob, as a rigging pro myself I agree with your rigger and contend they should be replaced. The Sta-Lok fittings are very good provided they are done properly and if your rigger is comfortable with them that's reason enough to choose what he recommends. The cost differences are negligible given the competence of the guy doing it.

I would not recommend using TB covers or shroud sleeves-- these parts need to be looked-at and looked-at often. Inspection of TBs and pins has been part of the daily routine of sailors at sea for decades. Do not hide what you need to know about.

 

[Bob 04 H260]

Thanks for the good advice and feed back.

I have never used any kind of covers on the rigging. It looks the diagonals have some plastic sleeves on them. I guess because they cross and there may have been concern they could rub together ? I will probably have that taken off.

I learned a few things about what to look for when inspecting the rigging. It seems it can be quite variable. The rigger mentioned that the service life is shorter if the rigging is under more stress. They said a monohull usually goes 10-12 years but a catamaran only about 7 years before the rigging needs changing.

He also mentioned that some insurance companies do not cover losses due to failure of stainless steel parts in the rigging.........whether covered by insurance or not a boat can be replaced I am more concerned with the safety of my family and friends.

Bob

 

[DianaOfBurlington]

It ain't the stress, it's the cycles.

With rigging fittings and wire, the number of cycles of stress/unstress is more critical than the loads themselves and the time spent under load. It's always the cycles that kill it. A rig's useful life can be extended merely by NOT slacking it 'to provide relief' at the dock or during the off-season. There really is no reason for doing this; yet I hear many people claiming it's part of their maintenance regimen. Once it's tuned, efforts should be made to keep it tuned. Period.

The constant shocking of rigging elements can lead to the very worst damage-- to chainplates, bulkheads, spar fittings, clevis pins and bolts, all of it. In contrast leaving a rig under tensile load indefinitely does almost nothing to fatigue it. If it could be kept under constant load with no shock at all, the only thing that would kill it would be environmental corrosion.

This is why 316 stainless is generally specified for rigging pins-- because, if left under load, the 316 (which is more brittle than 304) will prove stronger. Ultimately a certain degree of shock-loading is always inevitable and so the practical lifespan of rigging components, especially those of 316, will be much shorter than it should appear in theory.

The insurance company is probably expecting you to replace these at conservative maintenance cycles; but I'll venture to say that if the maintenance kept to a sensible routine the SS fittings won't be either your worry or theirs.

Sport catamarans travel so fast that their rigging undergoes tremendous shock from mere anklesnapper swells-- this is probably where your rigger is basing his statement about they reduced life of their rigs. Also, so many of them are used in charters that the maintenance needs will be greater than can be those of private yachts used carefully by a small number of loving, attentive owners.

* * *

 

[Maine Sail]

One thing to consider is the potential loss of a spar. Nearly every rigging company suggests a 10 year replacement cycle. If you go beyond this, and have a failure, it would be very easy for the insurance company to deem the rig failure as "lack of maintenance" and not pay out.

However if you can produce a receipt to show that you did maintain and replace the rigging, at industry accepted/recommended intervals, there is a much better chance the damage will be covered.

The boat I race on, an Ericson 34, recently had the spar replaced. Total cost, IIRC, was in the neighborhood of 25-30k when all was said & done.......