Rigging a small boat for heavy windward work

Sep 27, 2014
57
Montgomery 17 driveway
Where I do a lot of sailing in my Montgomery 17 the winds often pipe up to about 20 knots plus in the afternoon. I have recently read where a 7/8 hoist on an 80% highcut jib on its own set of jib sheet tracks can enhance the ability of the a boat to go to windward. In the case of my particular craft it was suggested that short tracks mounted on the cabin top and placed at a 12-14degree angle would create the optimum "slot effect" for a single reefed main that would allow my boat to really scoot to windward. Sounds great except I have no idea how to position that inboard set of short tracks fore and aft nor what to measure to obtain the 12-14 degree angle. Anybody know what a " 7/8 hoist" is? Or how to place the specified tracks fore and aft or how far inboard??:confused: I am out of my depth here (no pun intended) and would rather not drill a bunch of bolt holes in the wrong place so any advice would be much appreciated.
 
Jun 8, 2004
10,443
-na -NA Anywhere USA
It would be most helpful if photos are added so we can see what we are looking at. As they say a picture is worth a thousand words.
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,047
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
The M17 is a stout craft, nice boat.

Start at gear websites: like this one - http://www.harken.com/system-diagrams/ Noodle around this and more.

Google sailboat deck layouts and other ideas. You'll need to do some measurements.

Have you looked for an M17 owners' group online? Why reinvent the wheel?

Usually the inboard tracks are very short, if you have any older Catalina 30s around you, look at what they have.

A 7/8 hoist means a jib with a shorter luff and a high cut clew. That's what I have with an 85% "summer" jib for heavy air sailing here on SF Bay. I use a 110 during the lighter winter airs, nothing bigger on a 34 foot boat and we do quite well.
 
Jan 1, 2006
7,586
Slickcraft 26 Sailfish
A 7/8 hoist means the jib goes up the mast 7/8 of the way. It is a fractional rig instead of masthead. Measure the 12 -14 degrees with a protractor and string or just a pencil line. Fore/aft placement depends on your sail. Do you have the sail yet?
RichH has written a detailed and clear post on this subject. I tried to find it via the search but couldn't. It would be worth your time to read.
Fore and aft placement is the length of the foot of the sail and some extra so that the clew of the sail is bisected by the sheet. That is, the sheet should pull as much aft as it does down. That should be the middle of the track.
 

Joe

.
Jun 1, 2004
8,196
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
Is your boat a masthead or fractionally rigged M17? I browsed the boat model and found many examples of both rigs. Owner conversions appear common.

I you have a masthead rig... go with the smaller cut headsail. If you have the fractional setup already... then you're good to go.... because you can depower the main much more efficiently by bending the mast with the backstay.

The "sheeting angle" is what you're talking about... it is the horizontal angle created between the boat's centerline and a line from tack to the jib block location. A barber hauler is a device used to change headsail sheeting angle..... so you can rig something simple on your boat to experiment with the athwartship block positions before drilling more holes.
 
Sep 27, 2014
57
Montgomery 17 driveway
Thanks Joe. The barber hauler sounds like just the ticket to find out what is what on the foredeck.
 
Sep 27, 2014
57
Montgomery 17 driveway
Oh, by the way, I have a masthead rig. Would a backstay tensioner be worth it in this case? How about a jib halyard winch?
 

RichH

.
Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
Is your boat a masthead or fractionally rigged M17? I browsed the boat model and found many examples of both rigs. Owner conversions appear common.

I you have a masthead rig... go with the smaller cut headsail. If you have the fractional setup already... then you're good to go.... because you can depower the main much more efficiently by bending the mast with the backstay.

The "sheeting angle" is what you're talking about... it is the horizontal angle created between the boat's centerline and a line from tack to the jib block location. A barber hauler is a device used to change headsail sheeting angle..... so you can rig something simple on your boat to experiment with the athwartship block positions before drilling more holes.
Good post by Joe.

Do consider and 'experiment' with the barberhauler option first. It will allow even further 'slot open distance' options than simple 12-14° tach-clew angle (from the centerline). Also, barberhauler will also allow even closer sheeting angles when the wind is very 'light'.

For a 12° tack–clew line: draw 72" long pencil line back from the tack ON the centerline, then at the end of the 72" line draw a pencil line at 90° from the centerline for 14.9". Draw a line from the end of that 14.9" mark back to the tack = that last 'line' is 12°
For 14° that perpendicular line is 17.4" long.
Extend that 'third' line all the way back to the 'rail' .... your 'static' fore/aft fairlead position should be near/on these extended 'third' pencil lines at the rail.

Better is athwartship jib tracks (run @ ~90° to the boats centerline) and permanently applying a 'clew iron' (multiple holed aluminum plates) at the sail's clew (replaces the clew D-ring or cringle ... needs sailmaker installation). Instead of moving the fairlead car back and forth, you simply change hole positions on the clew iron to get proper fore/aft fairlead setting. Barberhaulers can tangle/jam jib sheets (flogging) in high wind conditions during tacking/gybing.
Do websearch for M20 or Inland-20 Scow for concept of athwartship jib tracks .... the positioning of the athwartship jib track must be precise before you drill holes into the deck. See item #17 in below attached .pdf

The 7/8ths 'hoist' is a jib whose luff is 7/8ths as long as a full hoist jib - keeps the slot more 'open' at the head of the jib - good idea for high winds.

Backstay should be ~20% tension when @ 20+kts. If you have a tension gage, instal it (tie it on so it cant fall overboard) when sailing in 20+kt. ... you dont want that backstay to go much, or often, go above 30% tension during max. heel and in heavy gusts --- or you'll risk premature forestay/backstay failure.

Also for jib sheet control: consider large Harken hexaratchet cheek block somewhere on deck, with Double block shackled to clew-iron for 2:1 jib sheet purchase thus: ---- jib sheet to hex - to fairlead block - to double block on clew iron and terminating back to becket on fairlead block. Very quick, 2:1 power advantage, easy to hand control when 'blading out' a small jib in 'gusts'. Tail end of jib sheet controlled via cam cleat or (instant open cam-type) 'trigger cleat' (http://www.apsltd.com/c-313-harkennashtriggercleat.aspx).
 

Attachments

Joe

.
Jun 1, 2004
8,196
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
Oh, by the way, I have a masthead rig. Would a backstay tensioner be worth it in this case? How about a jib halyard winch?
It appears you're interested in performance so a backstay tensioner would definitely be a nice addition.... a boat your size doesn't require anything more than a 3:1 or 4:1 purchase.... google the subject for some visual examples of simple systems that will be cost friendly.

Just remember that the backstay works differently for masthead than fractional rigs. Don's trim guide will show you the details. But here's the essence: On a masthead rig, such as yours, the backstay and forestay oppose each other...so.. using the backstay adjuster controls forestay tension.... this is also known a head stay sag... and in simple terms it is a headsail trim control.

If you have a fractional rig... the backstay and forestay are not opposed. This means that forestay "hound" now becomes a fulcrum, so when you tension the backstay it levers the top section of the mast back while the middle section bows forward in response. The resulting mast bend affects the MAINSAIL shape....

Two completely different functions for the backstay... but both are important trim controls...

re: a jib halyard winch? No... just devise a simple 2:1 purchase with a cheek block on the mast.

 
Sep 27, 2014
57
Montgomery 17 driveway
I think I have tapped into a great info pool on this. Thank you all for taking the time to share your knowledge. I do appreciate it!