I have an older daysailor from the mid-60s (Sailstar Defender) that has a lever-retractable centerboard/keel. However, when I first received the boat, I disassembled the lever portion in the cockpit to polish the brass. When I replaced the lever, I must have done something wrong because the centerboard drops freely when the trailer sinks at the boat ramp. This causes a problem because the centerboard, which is ~3 feet long, gets caught inside the trailer frame and the boat cannot float free. My make-shift remedy is to put a large strap around underneath the boat and hook it together in the cockpit so I can release it once the boat floats free from the trailor. I have no idea even where to start with this issue, where to look or what might be wrong. I am hoping that it isn't something that requires cutting into the trunk or something that drastic. Anyone have a suggestion? Thanks in advance! Fred
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Center board
Unless you're fortunate enough to find someone familiar with this system, you're going to need to post some pictures so us old mechanic guys can tell you what you did wrong.
Unless you're fortunate enough to find someone familiar with this system, you're going to need to post some pictures so us old mechanic guys can tell you what you did wrong.
Unfortunately, I doubt it...
I will take some pictures tonight and post them in reply to this thread. Unfortunately, I doubt I will know what I am looking at. The boat is on a trailer in my driveway and it is difficult to see into the trunk at all. I have no means of lifting the boat off of the trailer, so the centerboard is currently retracted and being held in by the center roller on the trailer. My fear is that to fix it I will need to somehow get the boat off of the trailer and let the centerboard fall out of the trunk so I can see and possibly work inside the trunk. Anywho, thanks huys for the quick responses, I'll post tomorrow. Thanks! Fred A.
I will take some pictures tonight and post them in reply to this thread. Unfortunately, I doubt I will know what I am looking at. The boat is on a trailer in my driveway and it is difficult to see into the trunk at all. I have no means of lifting the boat off of the trailer, so the centerboard is currently retracted and being held in by the center roller on the trailer. My fear is that to fix it I will need to somehow get the boat off of the trailer and let the centerboard fall out of the trunk so I can see and possibly work inside the trunk. Anywho, thanks huys for the quick responses, I'll post tomorrow. Thanks! Fred A.
off the trailor
i have lifted, flipped and rotated my 18 foot vanguard volant at least 5 times. i have had it for almost 30 years (absolute mint condition). i flip it every four or five years to re-epoxy and paint the bottom. i use a couple of 'come-alongs' and 3/8 yacht braid to harness the boat. one come along front, one in back. be sure to lash the two harnesses together so they can not slip apart. i use a parking garage truss to attach the come alongs to. you can also use a couple of big trees. i did that with an o'day 23. jacked it up 6 feet between 4 pine trees, drove the trailor out from under it and spent the whole winter doing a barrier coat.
i have lifted, flipped and rotated my 18 foot vanguard volant at least 5 times. i have had it for almost 30 years (absolute mint condition). i flip it every four or five years to re-epoxy and paint the bottom. i use a couple of 'come-alongs' and 3/8 yacht braid to harness the boat. one come along front, one in back. be sure to lash the two harnesses together so they can not slip apart. i use a parking garage truss to attach the come alongs to. you can also use a couple of big trees. i did that with an o'day 23. jacked it up 6 feet between 4 pine trees, drove the trailor out from under it and spent the whole winter doing a barrier coat.
questions
I have seen other daysailers with a similar setup, some with only one pawl to hold the cb up. Question 1 When you engage the thumb 'knob' by sliding it down the lever, does it make contact with the pawls? Q 2 If it makes contact with and engages the pawls, does rolling if off the boat, lift the 'knob/lever' and disengage the mechanism? Q 3 If it does not make contact with or engage the pawls, you may have slid the knob on 180 from its original orientation. I would highly suspect the description in Q 2 as being the culprit. Let us know.
I have seen other daysailers with a similar setup, some with only one pawl to hold the cb up. Question 1 When you engage the thumb 'knob' by sliding it down the lever, does it make contact with the pawls? Q 2 If it makes contact with and engages the pawls, does rolling if off the boat, lift the 'knob/lever' and disengage the mechanism? Q 3 If it does not make contact with or engage the pawls, you may have slid the knob on 180 from its original orientation. I would highly suspect the description in Q 2 as being the culprit. Let us know.
To add to Rogers questions,
does the lever move when the CB contacts the roller when launching the boat? Or is the lever free of any load, all the time? Your original post makes no mention of the pawls and the lever tab. At launch, the slide tab on the lever has to engage the highest pawl. Fred, you knew that, right?
does the lever move when the CB contacts the roller when launching the boat? Or is the lever free of any load, all the time? Your original post makes no mention of the pawls and the lever tab. At launch, the slide tab on the lever has to engage the highest pawl. Fred, you knew that, right?
Fred, another question
Morning: Do you know if it was working properly when you first got the boat before taking the mechanism apart? I have a 12 foot O'Day Widgeon with a similar keel mechanism, only without the pawls. If that lever works freely, no matter where the board is, it's possible that the key in the shaft that goes through the board could be stripped or missing. Not trying to scare you, just another guess!
Morning: Do you know if it was working properly when you first got the boat before taking the mechanism apart? I have a 12 foot O'Day Widgeon with a similar keel mechanism, only without the pawls. If that lever works freely, no matter where the board is, it's possible that the key in the shaft that goes through the board could be stripped or missing. Not trying to scare you, just another guess!
Answers to questions...
Thank you guys for all o fyour great feedback and assistance. Here are my answers: Q1 When you engage the thumb 'knob' by sliding it down the lever, does it make contact with the pawls? If the pawls are the brass teeth, then yes, it actually moves pretty freely up and down the lever shaft. Q2 If it makes contact with and engages the pawls, does rolling if off the boat, lift the 'knob/lever' and disengage the mechanism? It sounds as if you are thinking that the 'brass teeth' move, and therefore lower the CB. The 'brass teeth' only serve to lock the lever in place, either up or down, essentially creating a multi-position CB for different depths. Q3 If it does not make contact with or engage the pawls, you may have slid the knob on 180 from its original orientation. There are actually 'knobs' on either side of the handle, but as I learned the first time I removed it, it only fits on one way. does the lever move when the CB contacts the roller when launching the boat? It used to, now I'm not sure. I think it wiggles back-and-forth sideways a bit. Or is the lever free of any load, all the time? I can now move the lever, while sitting in the trailer, all the way up and down with no effect on the CB. At launch, the slide tab on the lever has to engage the highest pawl. Fred, you knew that, right? I always keep it there, however, even with it furthest 'forward', the CB still drops freely once there isn't a roller holding it up inside the trunk. Do you know if it was working properly when you first got the boat before taking the mechanism apart? Yes, the first time I launched the boat, it worked properly. Somewhere along the way my meddling and tinkering for educational purposes caused it to no longer function. JB I think you might have hit the nail on the head. It sounds like whatever mechanism causes the forward and aft motion of the lever to make the centerboard go up and down is not working. I will disassemble it this evening (east coast) and see if (hopefully) there is some sort of pin or key that I can access without tearing open the trunk. If I have to get inside the trunk to fix the problem, it'll just have to stay that way ;-) Thanks again guys! I'll post pics of the disassembly tonight if you are interested. Fred A.
Thank you guys for all o fyour great feedback and assistance. Here are my answers: Q1 When you engage the thumb 'knob' by sliding it down the lever, does it make contact with the pawls? If the pawls are the brass teeth, then yes, it actually moves pretty freely up and down the lever shaft. Q2 If it makes contact with and engages the pawls, does rolling if off the boat, lift the 'knob/lever' and disengage the mechanism? It sounds as if you are thinking that the 'brass teeth' move, and therefore lower the CB. The 'brass teeth' only serve to lock the lever in place, either up or down, essentially creating a multi-position CB for different depths. Q3 If it does not make contact with or engage the pawls, you may have slid the knob on 180 from its original orientation. There are actually 'knobs' on either side of the handle, but as I learned the first time I removed it, it only fits on one way. does the lever move when the CB contacts the roller when launching the boat? It used to, now I'm not sure. I think it wiggles back-and-forth sideways a bit. Or is the lever free of any load, all the time? I can now move the lever, while sitting in the trailer, all the way up and down with no effect on the CB. At launch, the slide tab on the lever has to engage the highest pawl. Fred, you knew that, right? I always keep it there, however, even with it furthest 'forward', the CB still drops freely once there isn't a roller holding it up inside the trunk. Do you know if it was working properly when you first got the boat before taking the mechanism apart? Yes, the first time I launched the boat, it worked properly. Somewhere along the way my meddling and tinkering for educational purposes caused it to no longer function. JB I think you might have hit the nail on the head. It sounds like whatever mechanism causes the forward and aft motion of the lever to make the centerboard go up and down is not working. I will disassemble it this evening (east coast) and see if (hopefully) there is some sort of pin or key that I can access without tearing open the trunk. If I have to get inside the trunk to fix the problem, it'll just have to stay that way ;-) Thanks again guys! I'll post pics of the disassembly tonight if you are interested. Fred A.
Thanks!
Not able to get to taking it apart tonight. Thanks again for all of your feedback! I'll post a link to the pics tomorrow night! Fred A.
Not able to get to taking it apart tonight. Thanks again for all of your feedback! I'll post a link to the pics tomorrow night! Fred A.
square peg... round hole
So, from you answers, I think you have stripped the hole that the 'axel' from the lever peg goes through in the cb. This is not uncommon in an older boat. The peg or axel is square or in some cases triangular and fits into a similar shaped hole in the fiberglass centreboard. Eventually the hole rounds out, and the triangular or square peg just turns freely within it. Pull the mechanism out, drop the board, add fg into the hole shape it with a file or dremmel tool to get it to accept the peg again without spinning. On some boards, there is a brass insert that is the same shape as the axel from the lever, and is held in place by flanges on one or both sides of the centreboard, by a few (3 or 4) screws. If this is the case with your situation, refilling the screwholes and replacing with new screws is all that is required after pulling the board out. (Should you be so lucky.)
So, from you answers, I think you have stripped the hole that the 'axel' from the lever peg goes through in the cb. This is not uncommon in an older boat. The peg or axel is square or in some cases triangular and fits into a similar shaped hole in the fiberglass centreboard. Eventually the hole rounds out, and the triangular or square peg just turns freely within it. Pull the mechanism out, drop the board, add fg into the hole shape it with a file or dremmel tool to get it to accept the peg again without spinning. On some boards, there is a brass insert that is the same shape as the axel from the lever, and is held in place by flanges on one or both sides of the centreboard, by a few (3 or 4) screws. If this is the case with your situation, refilling the screwholes and replacing with new screws is all that is required after pulling the board out. (Should you be so lucky.)
Final Saga.....
Ok for those of you who were patient enough to stick around... I decided to take it apart! (See link for pics of the event) As it turns out, although Roger tells a wild tale (See the 'out of control' thread), I think he gets the gold medal. I pulled out the mechanism and it was a 'bolt' that went through the CB in the trunk, and was squared off. Obviously, the hole in the CB is rounded and needs to be fixed. (Probably as prescribed) Now for some interesting tid-bits.... The gent that I bought her from must have had this problem in the past, because when I pulled out the 'bolt', there were many shredded chunks of duct tape in there that tells me that it was a quick-fix because it worked the first couple of times I took it out. Also, tomorrow morning, the buyer of my boat is coming to pick it up. I have too much integrity to jsut slap some more duct tape in there, so I'll see if he wants to take it as-is or wants me to fix it and will come back to pick it up. Thanks again everyone for all of your great feedback! Fred A.
Ok for those of you who were patient enough to stick around... I decided to take it apart! (See link for pics of the event) As it turns out, although Roger tells a wild tale (See the 'out of control' thread), I think he gets the gold medal. I pulled out the mechanism and it was a 'bolt' that went through the CB in the trunk, and was squared off. Obviously, the hole in the CB is rounded and needs to be fixed. (Probably as prescribed) Now for some interesting tid-bits.... The gent that I bought her from must have had this problem in the past, because when I pulled out the 'bolt', there were many shredded chunks of duct tape in there that tells me that it was a quick-fix because it worked the first couple of times I took it out. Also, tomorrow morning, the buyer of my boat is coming to pick it up. I have too much integrity to jsut slap some more duct tape in there, so I'll see if he wants to take it as-is or wants me to fix it and will come back to pick it up. Thanks again everyone for all of your great feedback! Fred A.
thanks for the gold star fred
I had earlier indicated a fix by adding fg into the hole and shaping it with a file or dremmel tool to get it to accept the peg again without spinning. I am rethinking that after seeing your pictures. Another method which may work is now that you have the board out, lay it down with the hole facing up, and rig some supports to hold the handle in place so that the squared bolt sits inside the hole in its proper orientation. You may have to back the hole with some duct tape to create a cup so that when you add the liguid fg, it does not run out. Apply some fg release agent to the bolt, (dip it in melted paraffin wax), then using two part epoxy, the syringe type you buy at a hardware store, fill in the hole. When cured, remove the bolt, and replace the cb. The hole should match the peg exactly. I noted in your pictures that it tapered somewhat. This method may decrease the amount of fiddling you would have to do with a dremmel tool or file in order to get the peg to fit again. Hope this helps.
I had earlier indicated a fix by adding fg into the hole and shaping it with a file or dremmel tool to get it to accept the peg again without spinning. I am rethinking that after seeing your pictures. Another method which may work is now that you have the board out, lay it down with the hole facing up, and rig some supports to hold the handle in place so that the squared bolt sits inside the hole in its proper orientation. You may have to back the hole with some duct tape to create a cup so that when you add the liguid fg, it does not run out. Apply some fg release agent to the bolt, (dip it in melted paraffin wax), then using two part epoxy, the syringe type you buy at a hardware store, fill in the hole. When cured, remove the bolt, and replace the cb. The hole should match the peg exactly. I noted in your pictures that it tapered somewhat. This method may decrease the amount of fiddling you would have to do with a dremmel tool or file in order to get the peg to fit again. Hope this helps.
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