Here it goes. I currently own an O'day 22, and have sailed the heck out of it over the last 2 years. My wife and I stay overnight on it almost every weekend during the summer. We are thinking of moving up in terms of boat size. I don't have an extra 10 grand sitting around, but we dont own a car so a loan won't be a huge deal. Here's where I need some advise. I think we should move up to a 27 or 28 footer that we'll be more willing to put some money into and keep for 5 or 10 years instead of buying a 25 or 26 footer that we'll (or I'll) tire of quickly. What are your thoughts? I am in love with Islander 28s but they a few and far between for under 15K. What do you recommend in terms of boat progression? I want something that can hold its own and keep us comfortable in a stiff breeze. The shoal keeled 22 footer isn't a treat in 20 knots as you can imagine. In short, do I skip the 25 range and go up to something a little short of 30? Any recommendations? Anything I should avoid? I've accepted the fact that I will be throwing money into a hole for as long as this sailing fever grips me, so should I throw it into a hole thats next to a bigger hull? Adios Andrew
Requesting 'Sailorly' Advise
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I jsut moved from a 24 to a 35,
a 30 year old Morgan 35 in pretty good shape. I paid 10k$ for it..
I am more than pleased, it is the best boat i have yet to sail, it has lots of room, and i can pretty much go any place i want to in it. Its in Norfolk right now an i miss it so much, im going nuts waiting till i can go back up and bring it down here. The only problem is, now that i have the room for lots of equipment, im going gadget crazy, but im trying to keep it under control...
a 30 year old Morgan 35 in pretty good shape. I paid 10k$ for it..
I am more than pleased, it is the best boat i have yet to sail, it has lots of room, and i can pretty much go any place i want to in it. Its in Norfolk right now an i miss it so much, im going nuts waiting till i can go back up and bring it down here. The only problem is, now that i have the room for lots of equipment, im going gadget crazy, but im trying to keep it under control... 
Make the jump
If you make the jump to a larger boat, I doubt that you would be sorry. I went from a Blue Jay to a Lancer 30 four years ago and never looked back. I mostly day sail, but have plans for the future to go bigger and retire cruising. Good luck to you! Ellis
If you make the jump to a larger boat, I doubt that you would be sorry. I went from a Blue Jay to a Lancer 30 four years ago and never looked back. I mostly day sail, but have plans for the future to go bigger and retire cruising. Good luck to you! Ellis
27-28 a nice size
A 27 footer is where I started sailing and it is a nice size and large enough to handle about anything. I later moved to a 33 and did some nice long offshore work. If you do a lot of ocean sailing 33 is a better size. For coastal crusing I think 27-28 is ideal. I have moved down to a 25 myself as my wife doesn't like to sail and the 25 is so easy to handle and maintain by myself. Just get a good seaworthy stiff 27-28. Enjoy!
A 27 footer is where I started sailing and it is a nice size and large enough to handle about anything. I later moved to a 33 and did some nice long offshore work. If you do a lot of ocean sailing 33 is a better size. For coastal crusing I think 27-28 is ideal. I have moved down to a 25 myself as my wife doesn't like to sail and the 25 is so easy to handle and maintain by myself. Just get a good seaworthy stiff 27-28. Enjoy!
Next Boat Advice
Oday 22 is a great boat, Have sailed on sevral and know couples of all ages that cruise with them. Having grown up on Bristol and Pearsons I have good thoughts towards some models. I have also owned a Pearson,Beneteau and now a Whitby. I would recommend sevral boats in that class. Try an Oday 27 or 28, a lot of boat for short dollars. The Pearson 28-mark I&II's is also an excellent choice. Best of luck!
Oday 22 is a great boat, Have sailed on sevral and know couples of all ages that cruise with them. Having grown up on Bristol and Pearsons I have good thoughts towards some models. I have also owned a Pearson,Beneteau and now a Whitby. I would recommend sevral boats in that class. Try an Oday 27 or 28, a lot of boat for short dollars. The Pearson 28-mark I&II's is also an excellent choice. Best of luck!
Standing Headroom
Many years ago I made the move from a 22 footer to a 25 footer. I did not own the 25 very long before I moved up to a 29 footer. Should have done that to begin with. The major factor for me in the move up was going to a boat that I could stand up in, had an inboard diesel with some range capability and enough displacement that it didn't bounce around. I would strongly recomend those qualities (and you may have more that you desire) in your move up. But by far, the ability to stand up and walk like a human without bumping your head is a real nice thing. Good luck. PS, I now own a 33 foot boat which, for me, is just about perfect for single handing if I have to.
Many years ago I made the move from a 22 footer to a 25 footer. I did not own the 25 very long before I moved up to a 29 footer. Should have done that to begin with. The major factor for me in the move up was going to a boat that I could stand up in, had an inboard diesel with some range capability and enough displacement that it didn't bounce around. I would strongly recomend those qualities (and you may have more that you desire) in your move up. But by far, the ability to stand up and walk like a human without bumping your head is a real nice thing. Good luck. PS, I now own a 33 foot boat which, for me, is just about perfect for single handing if I have to.
ar just like me
ar 6 years ago I bought an O'day 22 (shoal draft like yours) and kept her for 4 years. I learned so much sailing her and went out and did weekends and a cruise to LI Sound from my home port . 2 years ago< i decided that it was time to move up. I found a beautiful O"Day 28 on City ISland and haven't looked back. ALl the room you need, sails well ( well.... compared to a 22) I can go away for weeks on end over the summers, a great boat for the money. You can find deals if you just look hard enough and aren't quick to jump at the first boat you look at...... Best of luck on getting aboat that is right for you. (You'll find it or it will find you)
ar 6 years ago I bought an O'day 22 (shoal draft like yours) and kept her for 4 years. I learned so much sailing her and went out and did weekends and a cruise to LI Sound from my home port . 2 years ago< i decided that it was time to move up. I found a beautiful O"Day 28 on City ISland and haven't looked back. ALl the room you need, sails well ( well.... compared to a 22) I can go away for weeks on end over the summers, a great boat for the money. You can find deals if you just look hard enough and aren't quick to jump at the first boat you look at...... Best of luck on getting aboat that is right for you. (You'll find it or it will find you)
We did the same thing
ar.. For several years, we trailer sailed a Rhodes 22. Last year, we decided to put it in a slip, thinking we would sail more. Boy, did we. We spent 2-3 weekends per month at the marina, on our boat. By the end of the season, we decided that if we were going to continue to do that, we wanted to move up to a bigger boat. We bought a 28' Hunter over the winter, and overall, have been happy with the transition. The reason I say overall, is that with a bigger boat, you have more systems to learn & fix. We went from an outboard engine to an inboard diesel, a porta potty, to a marine head, and more electronics. We've been fortunate in that a number of folks in our marina have helped us through things such as bleeding the air out of the fuel system to our first pump out. I'm glad we skipped the 25' size range and ended up where we did. It's been a great year, and we're really looking forward to next year! Jim Mowrey s/v Talisman
ar.. For several years, we trailer sailed a Rhodes 22. Last year, we decided to put it in a slip, thinking we would sail more. Boy, did we. We spent 2-3 weekends per month at the marina, on our boat. By the end of the season, we decided that if we were going to continue to do that, we wanted to move up to a bigger boat. We bought a 28' Hunter over the winter, and overall, have been happy with the transition. The reason I say overall, is that with a bigger boat, you have more systems to learn & fix. We went from an outboard engine to an inboard diesel, a porta potty, to a marine head, and more electronics. We've been fortunate in that a number of folks in our marina have helped us through things such as bleeding the air out of the fuel system to our first pump out. I'm glad we skipped the 25' size range and ended up where we did. It's been a great year, and we're really looking forward to next year! Jim Mowrey s/v Talisman
C30 are great
I moved up from a C22 5 years ago to a C 30 and its a great boat.I over night every weekend and love it . Its way bigger then a 27 or 28 and if you can swing the extra bucks it would be the way to go. John
I moved up from a C22 5 years ago to a C 30 and its a great boat.I over night every weekend and love it . Its way bigger then a 27 or 28 and if you can swing the extra bucks it would be the way to go. John
Get 27 - 32
Hello, Considering what you know about sailing and your needs, you should move right up to the 27-32 range boat. You will regret anything smaller. Yes, the larger boats are more complicated, but that's a good thing because the inboard diesel, marine head, decent galley, etc will all become very handy. Over the course of a weekend, it's nice to be able to take a hot shower, make a decent cup of coffee, and stand up inside the boat. Last year I made the same move - from a Catalina 22 to a Newport 28. I was looking at boats from the 28-32 range. I looked at a Catalina 27 but I felt it was just a little too small. I loved the Catalina 30, but nice ones were just a little out of my budget. I actually did fine a nice one, but it sold before I made my offer. Oh well, I'm very happy with my Newport. Some other good boats to consider are O'day 272, and 30, Islander 28 and 30, Cal 28, Ericsson 28. Take a close look at the Catalina 27. If you think it's large enough then it would be a great boat for you. There have been lots and lots made and you can probably find a good one pretty cheap. It would be better if you could get something in the larger range - more speed, stability, storage space, etc. However, the prices go up quickly. Be careful if you look at Irwin boats. I looked at a bunch because they were cheap. I found that they all had serious leaks around the chainplates and ports. Yes, I know that all boats can leak, but the Irwins were worse than all the others I looked at. Regardless of what you end up with, you'll want something bigger in two years! Also, save some money for fixing up the boat the way you like it. Good luck, Barry Barry Lenoble Noble Prize 1986 Newport 28 Mt. Sinai, NY
Hello, Considering what you know about sailing and your needs, you should move right up to the 27-32 range boat. You will regret anything smaller. Yes, the larger boats are more complicated, but that's a good thing because the inboard diesel, marine head, decent galley, etc will all become very handy. Over the course of a weekend, it's nice to be able to take a hot shower, make a decent cup of coffee, and stand up inside the boat. Last year I made the same move - from a Catalina 22 to a Newport 28. I was looking at boats from the 28-32 range. I looked at a Catalina 27 but I felt it was just a little too small. I loved the Catalina 30, but nice ones were just a little out of my budget. I actually did fine a nice one, but it sold before I made my offer. Oh well, I'm very happy with my Newport. Some other good boats to consider are O'day 272, and 30, Islander 28 and 30, Cal 28, Ericsson 28. Take a close look at the Catalina 27. If you think it's large enough then it would be a great boat for you. There have been lots and lots made and you can probably find a good one pretty cheap. It would be better if you could get something in the larger range - more speed, stability, storage space, etc. However, the prices go up quickly. Be careful if you look at Irwin boats. I looked at a bunch because they were cheap. I found that they all had serious leaks around the chainplates and ports. Yes, I know that all boats can leak, but the Irwins were worse than all the others I looked at. Regardless of what you end up with, you'll want something bigger in two years! Also, save some money for fixing up the boat the way you like it. Good luck, Barry Barry Lenoble Noble Prize 1986 Newport 28 Mt. Sinai, NY
Three feet
Others will probably disagree, but I figure that 3 feet longer just about doubles the boat when you are in this range. I don't mean that you just multiply every number by 2, but that's not too far off. Initial cost, sails, replacing hardware, engine size, usable space, and overall "feel" seem to fit this factor. If you go from your 22 to a 25, it will feel like at least twice as much boat - the same going from a 25 to a 28 or 30. So, while it's really nice to have the room and bigger boat feel, you'd better be ready to shell out a good deal more for replacements when you need them. Insurance and slip fees can also reflect the increased size, as will yard fees . Just take all that into account when you decide.
Others will probably disagree, but I figure that 3 feet longer just about doubles the boat when you are in this range. I don't mean that you just multiply every number by 2, but that's not too far off. Initial cost, sails, replacing hardware, engine size, usable space, and overall "feel" seem to fit this factor. If you go from your 22 to a 25, it will feel like at least twice as much boat - the same going from a 25 to a 28 or 30. So, while it's really nice to have the room and bigger boat feel, you'd better be ready to shell out a good deal more for replacements when you need them. Insurance and slip fees can also reflect the increased size, as will yard fees . Just take all that into account when you decide.
Six feet
That was my observation in the 30+ foot range. Six feet longer was twice the boat. But like all rules there's exceptions. But a rule not to ignore is 'don't buy too small'. Get the biggest boat that you can afford/handle. It's worked for me since my first sailboat mistake.
That was my observation in the 30+ foot range. Six feet longer was twice the boat. But like all rules there's exceptions. But a rule not to ignore is 'don't buy too small'. Get the biggest boat that you can afford/handle. It's worked for me since my first sailboat mistake.
Your next boat
Your next boat is always going to be your last boat. We went from 21 to 29 and oh what a nice move. Said that would be it...so how did I end up in a 34 footer? I would skip the mid 20s unless you want to trailer your boat. Go for 28+
Your next boat is always going to be your last boat. We went from 21 to 29 and oh what a nice move. Said that would be it...so how did I end up in a 34 footer? I would skip the mid 20s unless you want to trailer your boat. Go for 28+
look at the beam
I bought my oday 22 two years ago. I love it but the longer you own a boat the smaller it gets. I've been looking to upsize to the 27-28 foot range but after looking at a few boats in the 25-26 foot range thats where I might wind up. the boats I am looking at are a 25Cal mk2, Amf paceship 26, and the C&C 26 . I've been in a cal and a paceship their alot roomier than a catalina 27 both also have standing headroom " I,m 5'11" the cal has a 9' beam paceship 9'6"beam the C&C has a 10'beam
I bought my oday 22 two years ago. I love it but the longer you own a boat the smaller it gets. I've been looking to upsize to the 27-28 foot range but after looking at a few boats in the 25-26 foot range thats where I might wind up. the boats I am looking at are a 25Cal mk2, Amf paceship 26, and the C&C 26 . I've been in a cal and a paceship their alot roomier than a catalina 27 both also have standing headroom " I,m 5'11" the cal has a 9' beam paceship 9'6"beam the C&C has a 10'beam
We went from 25ft to 34ft
last fall and have not regretted it for a moment. We did not want to have an intermediate boat because we knew what wanted, which is really important. We sail almost every weekend (the house is going to be condemned I am sure!) and love the space, sea kindliness, security and handling of our boat. Costs are higher for sure but it was an easy choice for us.
last fall and have not regretted it for a moment. We did not want to have an intermediate boat because we knew what wanted, which is really important. We sail almost every weekend (the house is going to be condemned I am sure!) and love the space, sea kindliness, security and handling of our boat. Costs are higher for sure but it was an easy choice for us.
A new diesel can easily cost $10,000
The way you talk about money you need to keep in mind the cost of a diesel. A couple of boats at my marina replaced their diesels last year one a catalina 30 cost over 10k the other a morgan 33 cost about 8k but the owner installed it himself. That is the biggest problem with a diesel the expense. If you lose an outboard you can shop around and get a new or used one very easily. But just finding an honest competant diesel mechanic can be hard. Also the mechanics want $75/hour + to come to your boat. Last fall I waited a month for a mechanic to come and do some work. He said he spent four hours adjusting my prop shaft alignment but decided that I needed to replace it all. Except for removing three screws to remove the old coupling I could see no evidence that he did anything!!! He then left with the old parts that he never returned and charged me $300.00. I finally got the boat repaired after Christmas!!!! Missed the best sailing of the year. To replace the shaft add a dripless bearing and paint the bottom set me back $2,400.00 . But the worst part was not getting to sail from early October until January. If it had been an outboard I could have thrown the old one in the dumpster and had a new one from Boater's world or BoatUS on the boat the same day!!!! The fantastic sailing of Fall on the gulf would not have been missed. And you can almost buy a new outboard for the cost of a fairly minor diesel repair. I just bought a new 3.5hp tohatsu for $620 on the internet. BTW I was very lucky that there was a repair facility very close to my marina. Otherwise I would have had to hire a tow. Towboatus wants $150/hr and the closest other facilty would have required 2-3 hours of towing. Tom
The way you talk about money you need to keep in mind the cost of a diesel. A couple of boats at my marina replaced their diesels last year one a catalina 30 cost over 10k the other a morgan 33 cost about 8k but the owner installed it himself. That is the biggest problem with a diesel the expense. If you lose an outboard you can shop around and get a new or used one very easily. But just finding an honest competant diesel mechanic can be hard. Also the mechanics want $75/hour + to come to your boat. Last fall I waited a month for a mechanic to come and do some work. He said he spent four hours adjusting my prop shaft alignment but decided that I needed to replace it all. Except for removing three screws to remove the old coupling I could see no evidence that he did anything!!! He then left with the old parts that he never returned and charged me $300.00. I finally got the boat repaired after Christmas!!!! Missed the best sailing of the year. To replace the shaft add a dripless bearing and paint the bottom set me back $2,400.00 . But the worst part was not getting to sail from early October until January. If it had been an outboard I could have thrown the old one in the dumpster and had a new one from Boater's world or BoatUS on the boat the same day!!!! The fantastic sailing of Fall on the gulf would not have been missed. And you can almost buy a new outboard for the cost of a fairly minor diesel repair. I just bought a new 3.5hp tohatsu for $620 on the internet. BTW I was very lucky that there was a repair facility very close to my marina. Otherwise I would have had to hire a tow. Towboatus wants $150/hr and the closest other facilty would have required 2-3 hours of towing. Tom
Tom, that is a really sad story.
I couldn't relate to a word of it. I do my own work including rebuilding my diesel. I'm like many guys I know, in that I can look at a engine running and visualize every moving part and how they should sound. Trouble shooting is just a simple game. The only challenge about a diesel for me is the governor system. Wanna hear about my freshwater pump bearing repair at sea? Two hours. Done. All with makeshift tools in six foot seas working in the galley sink. The shop manual said 'don't try it except in an emergency! It's much too difficult'. Well, it was a emergency. I've helped many cruisers with engine problems. Many people go to sea with machines that they are clueless about the inner workings. It amazes me. The folks who take those diesel repair courses are on the right track. It can be the difference between a safe arrival or much worse. I could go on for hours. Wanna hear my Camaro stories? How about my V8 ski boat stories? Only once in 35 years of boating have I been towed. My Atomic 4 crankshaft broke in two. Sometimes a fellow just has to get help. But at least we made it from Desolation Sound to the San Juan's. We changed the crank on the dock at Friday Harbor. That's when I went to diesel power.
I couldn't relate to a word of it. I do my own work including rebuilding my diesel. I'm like many guys I know, in that I can look at a engine running and visualize every moving part and how they should sound. Trouble shooting is just a simple game. The only challenge about a diesel for me is the governor system. Wanna hear about my freshwater pump bearing repair at sea? Two hours. Done. All with makeshift tools in six foot seas working in the galley sink. The shop manual said 'don't try it except in an emergency! It's much too difficult'. Well, it was a emergency. I've helped many cruisers with engine problems. Many people go to sea with machines that they are clueless about the inner workings. It amazes me. The folks who take those diesel repair courses are on the right track. It can be the difference between a safe arrival or much worse. I could go on for hours. Wanna hear my Camaro stories? How about my V8 ski boat stories? Only once in 35 years of boating have I been towed. My Atomic 4 crankshaft broke in two. Sometimes a fellow just has to get help. But at least we made it from Desolation Sound to the San Juan's. We changed the crank on the dock at Friday Harbor. That's when I went to diesel power.
Hi Fred it was more mad than sad
Hi Fred; I am a reasonably good mechanic on cars and motorcycles. When the coupling first broke it was at night with the wind driving us onto the beach. I dropped anchor in 30' of water and waited for a tow. Fortunately they heard our radio call and for only $300 towed us a couple miles to a marina. There I didn't have the right tools and it was the middle of vacation. A "mechanic" with tools charged $300 to drill out the old bolts and install new bolts. The coupler was damaged and was fixed only for 2 days!!!! Fortunately it broke close to our dock and we got back into the slip using the oars from the dinghy. I already talked about the 2nd mechanic. time is the biggest problem at my stage of life. We have to work. We have kids grandkids and parents that eat up time and money and limited time to go to the boat which is 300 miles away. Once we retire and have more time spending a weekend or two working on the engine won't be a big deal. But even then a diesel repair is much more expensive and time consuming than an outboard repair. A good thing about the Volvo MD11C is that in theory it can be completely rebuilt while it is in the boat. The cylinders are removeable!!!! But in practice I don't know if I can stand on my head that long. On a 32 foot boat an inboard is really about the only practical motor. But on a 26' boat an outboard is a reasonable option. If I was in the position of the poster wanting to spend 10K or so for a boat I would look very closely at the engine!!!! It would be awful to stretch the budget with a loan for a boat and then have the engine die. Then end up with a loan and no usable boat. I saw a Pearson 323 in Pensacola where the guy bolted an outboard on the stern because he couldn't afford to replace the diesel. I would much prefer to be sailing a smaller boat dreaming of a larger boat than owning a larger boat that I couldn't sail because of engine repair problems. Andrew if you are an expert mechanic with plenty of time ignore my advice. Tom
Hi Fred; I am a reasonably good mechanic on cars and motorcycles. When the coupling first broke it was at night with the wind driving us onto the beach. I dropped anchor in 30' of water and waited for a tow. Fortunately they heard our radio call and for only $300 towed us a couple miles to a marina. There I didn't have the right tools and it was the middle of vacation. A "mechanic" with tools charged $300 to drill out the old bolts and install new bolts. The coupler was damaged and was fixed only for 2 days!!!! Fortunately it broke close to our dock and we got back into the slip using the oars from the dinghy. I already talked about the 2nd mechanic. time is the biggest problem at my stage of life. We have to work. We have kids grandkids and parents that eat up time and money and limited time to go to the boat which is 300 miles away. Once we retire and have more time spending a weekend or two working on the engine won't be a big deal. But even then a diesel repair is much more expensive and time consuming than an outboard repair. A good thing about the Volvo MD11C is that in theory it can be completely rebuilt while it is in the boat. The cylinders are removeable!!!! But in practice I don't know if I can stand on my head that long. On a 32 foot boat an inboard is really about the only practical motor. But on a 26' boat an outboard is a reasonable option. If I was in the position of the poster wanting to spend 10K or so for a boat I would look very closely at the engine!!!! It would be awful to stretch the budget with a loan for a boat and then have the engine die. Then end up with a loan and no usable boat. I saw a Pearson 323 in Pensacola where the guy bolted an outboard on the stern because he couldn't afford to replace the diesel. I would much prefer to be sailing a smaller boat dreaming of a larger boat than owning a larger boat that I couldn't sail because of engine repair problems. Andrew if you are an expert mechanic with plenty of time ignore my advice. Tom
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