My little one lunger universal has given up and I am being told that to repower with a 20 hourse will run me about $9000. I can get the engine for about $5200 and then do the install my self. Have any of you done this and if so was it tough? I have some skills but would like to know if someone else did this and was successful. thanks
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J
Jack Tyler
Lots of issues; get some good references
Duane, I've also been researching repowering. Some thoughts... First, lots of variables when picking the new engine & installing it: 1. New engines of similar hp rating tend to run at higher rpms than older engines (due to emission standards changing); this will effect your shaft rpm & may require you to repitch/resize your prop. 2. You can consider rebuilding your transmission vs. buying a new one, so you order the engine 'bobtail'; this can save you some money with the same likely longevity (depending on transmission's history and type. May be a bad idea in your case if you're increasing power substantially. 3. Footprint & geometry of new engines generally differ from older engines as boat builders have reduced the engine box in order to increase interior room; modifying engine beds is possible but a hassle, time consuming and an expense, so picking an engine most agreeable to existing bed, shaft length, height, etc. can make the project go much faster/cheaper. (You've no doubt already looked at engine measurements; don't overlook other engines if you don't already have a good fit). This is of course the time to shop engines - boat show season. Look for promotionals that not only reduce price but may also offer free freight to your dealer and/or even spares kits when a purchase is done at a show. Westerbeke offers all 3 right now. Dan Spurr's book (sorry, title escapes me) illustrates a complete engine replacement and was helpful, I thought. Nigel Calder's early chapter on powering a sailboat in The Cruising Handbook is excellent and a good way for you to check hp/rpm assumptions, and it uses the same approach as Dave Gerr's 2 books (The Propellor Handbook and The Nature of Boats) which are excellent...but Nigel covers the same ground quite clearly. Gerr offers a clear way in which to determine your prop pitch & size, BTW. One final observation: we've repowered twice & I think it's fair to say that while it's easy to find vendors who will sell you pieces and labor, no one vendor is incented to care about your total repowering project (beds oka?; will you need to reroute exhuast, fuel and raw water lines? change transmission ratio at the time you install a higher rpm engine? shaft okay?prop? compatible with alarms, current instrument panel? it's a lengthy list...). I'm finding that locating a local independent mechanic to 'oversee' the project is a big help while not adding a large expense; in fact, he may be saving me money. The labor rate may be less for an independent due to no overhead cost of a shop. Someone who's repowered a number of C30's will know exactly what is required and what the surprises might be, yet can leave you to do all the unbolting/bolting, running around town for new fuel/exhuast/water hoses, etc. I'm finding that staging the work is a key task, since the engine must be pulled so the transmission can be removed and rebuilt, yet I don't want to lift it out until the new one is available. It's time to pull & replace the 23 yr old fuel tank, which is behind the engine. So the actual critical path is to line up 'time to make new tank' with clean/repaint bilge/engine bed area, run new ground wires, etc. on my end with the shop's time to rebuild the transmission. Staging the delivery of the new engine/yanking the old one is almost incidental re: timing, tho' how to get a 600# engine out is a challenge, given no propulsion. Good luck! Jack
Duane, I've also been researching repowering. Some thoughts... First, lots of variables when picking the new engine & installing it: 1. New engines of similar hp rating tend to run at higher rpms than older engines (due to emission standards changing); this will effect your shaft rpm & may require you to repitch/resize your prop. 2. You can consider rebuilding your transmission vs. buying a new one, so you order the engine 'bobtail'; this can save you some money with the same likely longevity (depending on transmission's history and type. May be a bad idea in your case if you're increasing power substantially. 3. Footprint & geometry of new engines generally differ from older engines as boat builders have reduced the engine box in order to increase interior room; modifying engine beds is possible but a hassle, time consuming and an expense, so picking an engine most agreeable to existing bed, shaft length, height, etc. can make the project go much faster/cheaper. (You've no doubt already looked at engine measurements; don't overlook other engines if you don't already have a good fit). This is of course the time to shop engines - boat show season. Look for promotionals that not only reduce price but may also offer free freight to your dealer and/or even spares kits when a purchase is done at a show. Westerbeke offers all 3 right now. Dan Spurr's book (sorry, title escapes me) illustrates a complete engine replacement and was helpful, I thought. Nigel Calder's early chapter on powering a sailboat in The Cruising Handbook is excellent and a good way for you to check hp/rpm assumptions, and it uses the same approach as Dave Gerr's 2 books (The Propellor Handbook and The Nature of Boats) which are excellent...but Nigel covers the same ground quite clearly. Gerr offers a clear way in which to determine your prop pitch & size, BTW. One final observation: we've repowered twice & I think it's fair to say that while it's easy to find vendors who will sell you pieces and labor, no one vendor is incented to care about your total repowering project (beds oka?; will you need to reroute exhuast, fuel and raw water lines? change transmission ratio at the time you install a higher rpm engine? shaft okay?prop? compatible with alarms, current instrument panel? it's a lengthy list...). I'm finding that locating a local independent mechanic to 'oversee' the project is a big help while not adding a large expense; in fact, he may be saving me money. The labor rate may be less for an independent due to no overhead cost of a shop. Someone who's repowered a number of C30's will know exactly what is required and what the surprises might be, yet can leave you to do all the unbolting/bolting, running around town for new fuel/exhuast/water hoses, etc. I'm finding that staging the work is a key task, since the engine must be pulled so the transmission can be removed and rebuilt, yet I don't want to lift it out until the new one is available. It's time to pull & replace the 23 yr old fuel tank, which is behind the engine. So the actual critical path is to line up 'time to make new tank' with clean/repaint bilge/engine bed area, run new ground wires, etc. on my end with the shop's time to rebuild the transmission. Staging the delivery of the new engine/yanking the old one is almost incidental re: timing, tho' how to get a 600# engine out is a challenge, given no propulsion. Good luck! Jack
R
Roland
H
Harvey
In the process now
I am in the process of repowering at the present time. The main thing that you need is patience and a lift to get the old out and the new in. I had a universal 5411 2 cyl diesel 11 hp. The replacement is a Universal m3-20b 3 cyl 20 hp. The reduction gear (or transmission) was included. All you need is to add oil, antifreeze, and transmission fluid. I also bought the Admirals panel( control panel) and it plugs up to the engine which is already wired. The engine bed had to be modified ( cut back) and reglassed. The shaft alignment could have been a problem but matched up perfectly once the engine was in place. I still do not have the throttle,shift linkage , or shut down conrol cables hooked up but plan on doing that this weekend if we can dodge Hurricane Lili. After that I will reinstall the Galley and be ready to go. My email address is hwc117@bellsouth.net if I can be of any help.Try the link below . Cris at Torrensen Marine was the person I delt with.
I am in the process of repowering at the present time. The main thing that you need is patience and a lift to get the old out and the new in. I had a universal 5411 2 cyl diesel 11 hp. The replacement is a Universal m3-20b 3 cyl 20 hp. The reduction gear (or transmission) was included. All you need is to add oil, antifreeze, and transmission fluid. I also bought the Admirals panel( control panel) and it plugs up to the engine which is already wired. The engine bed had to be modified ( cut back) and reglassed. The shaft alignment could have been a problem but matched up perfectly once the engine was in place. I still do not have the throttle,shift linkage , or shut down conrol cables hooked up but plan on doing that this weekend if we can dodge Hurricane Lili. After that I will reinstall the Galley and be ready to go. My email address is hwc117@bellsouth.net if I can be of any help.Try the link below . Cris at Torrensen Marine was the person I delt with.
B
Bob Howie
Self-repowering 101
In Sept 2001 I replaced the stock Yanmar YSM-12 in my 78h30 with a 24hp Bukh (ok..I know you haven't heard of them -- neither had I until this project started, but they are built in Denmark, started off life as commercial lifeboat engine and are sold and supported here in Houston)after spending a year searching and researching the project. Total cost of the entire project was $8,000 start to finish. Bob Kahak at Alexander-Ryan Marine & Safety Company who sold me the engine and Casey Bergin at Mockingbird Marine in Seabrook, Texas...well, I just can't say enough good and great things about them and their professionalism. However, I elected not to do the project myself and "having skills" which is a good thing, might not be enough on a project of this scope. Jack Tyler in this forum has some very excellent comments and advice -- re-read his commentary. The reason I didn't do it myself was primarily because I didn't have time, but also the guys who do this sort of thing for a living have the experience and expertise to make the project move along quickly, getting it right the first time and any missteps are at their cost, not yours. I would just advise you to consider using qualified shipwrights to do this project and to use only those engines that DO NOT require you to re-engineer your engine spaces. You can spend a FORTUNE trying to get that right. The Bukh, by comparison, fit right into the same spaces as the old Yanmar and required no re-engineering to make it work. Good luck.
In Sept 2001 I replaced the stock Yanmar YSM-12 in my 78h30 with a 24hp Bukh (ok..I know you haven't heard of them -- neither had I until this project started, but they are built in Denmark, started off life as commercial lifeboat engine and are sold and supported here in Houston)after spending a year searching and researching the project. Total cost of the entire project was $8,000 start to finish. Bob Kahak at Alexander-Ryan Marine & Safety Company who sold me the engine and Casey Bergin at Mockingbird Marine in Seabrook, Texas...well, I just can't say enough good and great things about them and their professionalism. However, I elected not to do the project myself and "having skills" which is a good thing, might not be enough on a project of this scope. Jack Tyler in this forum has some very excellent comments and advice -- re-read his commentary. The reason I didn't do it myself was primarily because I didn't have time, but also the guys who do this sort of thing for a living have the experience and expertise to make the project move along quickly, getting it right the first time and any missteps are at their cost, not yours. I would just advise you to consider using qualified shipwrights to do this project and to use only those engines that DO NOT require you to re-engineer your engine spaces. You can spend a FORTUNE trying to get that right. The Bukh, by comparison, fit right into the same spaces as the old Yanmar and required no re-engineering to make it work. Good luck.
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