Repowering 1979 Catalina 30

Brad Woodward · Nov 4, 2012

Universal M25XP. It's in most later models. Has enough HP for that boat with either a 2 or 3 blade prop.

degreeoff · Nov 4, 2012

http://annapolis.craigslist.org/boa/3367645051.html

This would do nicely.....I have one in my boat.

Stu Jackson · Nov 4, 2012

The M25 and M25XP are essentially the same engines. The M25 is 21 hp, the XP is 23 hp with the improved alternator bracket and the three inch HX. As far as I know, the XPs are no longer available, but an M25XPB is. Don't get one, they have a horrible reputation for bone jarring operation. Weird, but true.

A friend bought a used M25 and replaced his A4 with it in his Pearson 30, he's a happy camper.

If you get an M25, buy a 3 inch HX (it'll fit, I did it on mine) and make sure you get the upgraded alternator bracket. http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6920.0.html

I have 2600 engine hours on mine, and a friend got over 5000 hours on his M25XP. He replaced his with an M25XPA.

Lots of good M25 series engine info here: http://www.c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Diesel_Engine

They fit great in C30s.

Happy hunting.

jimmcgee · Nov 7, 2012

Stu Jackson said:
The M25 and M25XP are essentially the same engines. The M25 is 21 hp, the XP is 23 hp with the improved alternator bracket and the three inch HX. As far as I know, the XPs are no longer available, but an M25XPB is. Don't get one, they have a horrible reputation for bone jarring operation. Weird, but true.

A friend bought a used M25 and replaced his A4 with it in his Pearson 30, he's a happy camper.

If you get an M25, buy a 3 inch HX (it'll fit, I did it on mine) and make sure you get the upgraded alternator bracket. http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6920.0.html

I have 2600 engine hours on mine, and a friend got over 5000 hours on his M25XP. He replaced his with an M25XPA.

Lots of good M25 series engine info here: http://www.c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Diesel_Engine

They fit great in C30s.

Happy hunting.

Stu,
I've heard this before. Why would the XPB vibrate more than the XP?

Jim

Stu Jackson · Nov 7, 2012

Jim, I don't know "why" but this is from the C36 Forum, they know their stuff:

Pos M25-xpb
The PO repowered his 1987 C36 with a M25-XPB. It is a terrible application for a marine auxiliary. The damn thing will not idle smoothly below 1150 RPM, and is really hard on damper plates and engine mounts. Check out the C310 Owners' website, since Butler & Co used that engine in those boats, and the vibration at idle is a well known problem.

He had ordered a Yanmar, but upon further investigation the yard told him it would require modification of the engine cowl/companionway ladder to get it in there. He cancelled that and went with the Universal/Westerbeke engine.

I owned this boat, in what now seems a previous life, and its M25-XP purred along at an 850 RPM idle, smoothly ticking over. The XPB will "run" below 1000 RPM (the published idle is 1000-1200), but acts like it wants to crawl out into the cockpit with you.

The XPB was not entirely a "drop in" replacement for the XP and the PO reported some issue with the engine mounts. I'm not on the boat, and can't recall what had to be done to get the new engine in there and aligned. The heat exchanger had to be shifted to starboard in its brackets to fit, resulting in its end cap rubbing up against the throttle and engine kill cable sheaths. The heat exchange zinc wound up nearly inaccessible (directly above the engine mount) and can only be changed with liberal application of the f-word.

Westerbeke used the deservedly much-malinged backwards facing Sherwood raw water pump, the impeller in which would be a real PITA to change anywhere but at the dock. One of its hoses must be removed, spilling saltwater onto the lower engine pully, when changing the belt because some rocket scientist figured it wasn't important to employ the Oberdoffer off to the side of the engine as in the M25-XP.

I was in a 3-way partnership in a 2005 310 before reacquiring my 36. With under 700 engine hours, we had already gone through two damper plates and an engine mount. That engine exhibited the exact same reluctance to idle as does the XPB in my boat.

Not being a bit fan of shifting the transmission at 1200 RPM, I reduce the throttle to around 950, grit my teeth while the engine rumbles around, shift and quickly reapply power to 1150 to get it to run smoothly. Makes for a jerky approach to the dock. The old XP could stay at 850 and shift back and forth effortlessly as needed to get into the slip.

As much as I have misgivings about rebuilt diesels, that might be a consideration, depending on what's wrong with the existing engine. Doubt one would save a lot of money and, to my way of thinking, sailboats are about beauty and relaxation, absent the worry of a rebuild going TU.

Had it been my call, I would certainly have tried to get a Yanmar (or something?) in there, even if it required downsizing the HP to fit. I have no experience with the Beta or other offerings, but would only go with the XPB if there was no alternative.

Can't remember the exact figure, but recall the yard bill being around $13k, including new transmission, dripless shaft seal and flexible coupling in 2008.

Hope this is helpful.

Jack
__________________
Jack Heaston
C36 Mk I #692
Silent Passage

redhead78 · Nov 7, 2012

Look at the beta kubota, Iv'e had my 35hp, 2 seasons now and love it....REd

degreeoff · Nov 7, 2012

Ooh, I should mention when mine kicked the bucket, all the marinized parts were good and all I did was buy a rebuilt longblock kubota d950 for 2400 swap the he, alt bracket etc etc... Done ;-)

jrowan · Nov 8, 2012

You don't mention why you want to repower.

orizon2012 said:
Bonjour !
I want to repower my Catalina 30 1979 from ysm 12 to a new or used engine. What should i install ?

Thanks.

Paul

It would be helpful to know why U want to repower before making engine replacement recommendations. While the Yanmar 12 hp diesel is somewhat underpowered for the C 30, it is still a very reliable, dependable & economical engine to run in a sailboat. If the engine is worn with high hours, I would personally highly consider rebuilding it before replacing it.
The cost of a rebuild is less then half of a replacement. Plus you know that the current engine fits the engine compartment without all the mods that always have to be done & are a PITA. I would consider selling a boat before I swapped out an engine for a complete repower. Financially it makes little sense, it is a money loosing proposition. Really with so many other C 30's out there with bigger diesel engines that will run for a long time, it makes more sense to sell what you have & upgrade to a newer boat first. Or just rebuild what you have. I have also heard from several friends that have the M25 Universal diesel in the C 30's that they still can't get their boats to move much faster then 5 to 5.5 knots under power. So is it really worth it? My 2 cents.

ProjMan · Dec 30, 2012

I am in the process of rebuilding my m25. As it turned out, I have been having a series of problems that have been linked. My packing gland leaked, we took on water while running the engine, the automatic bilge pump failed, water got high enough to get into the engine through the dip stick and caused scaring on the valves and pistons.

I did file with my insurance group, they have researched and agreed with this being a legitimate claim.

I did change the oil twice after taking on water, replaced the overworked bilge pump, change the shaft packing wet and continued to have power problems due to the damage on the engine. I finally gave up when my engine wouldn't start and called for a tow. The stater was replaced and there was smoke determined to be coming out of the intake. That is when we determined I had major damage.

Hopefully this will will eliminate all my problems and I can get back to sailing.

jrowan · Jan 3, 2013

You might be able to get away with a partial rebuild, as the valves & fuel injectors seems to suffer the most wear & tear on a diesel. But if you got raw water into the cylinder head directly, then the water compression may have blown the piston rings which will cause oil blow by & smoking. Thick black smoke when under load is a good indicator of this. Although failure to start, in my opinion, is almost always caused by either bad fuel or an air blockage to the injectors. Sometimes a small leak on the fuel or injector lines can pull air in through a pinhole & starve the engine for fuel. I've also witnessed many a diesel engine getting sludgy bad fuel that had water in it forming at the bottom of the tank. This masquerades itself as a major problem, like an injector pump failure. The first thing I would do is pump out your fuel tank & clean the fuel lines & start with nice, clean diesel. after she is bled then determine whether a rebuild is necessary. My 2 c.

degreeoff · Jan 6, 2013

Or........dun dun dun......no compression........my guess is the rings, same thing happened to me. Though mine sunk on land, h2o in the oil.....never started it but emptied it and cleaned it and it ran like a top......overheated one time....old 2" heat exchanger....bam, no start. Compression was 0/80/40.....from an engine that runs, what 180psi? Just buy a rebuilt longblock from a tractor supply house and bolt your bits on and go. And m25 is a kubota d850, the xp a d950

Chris Patterson · Jan 8, 2013

If you decide to repower, and decide to go with a different engine, there are a multitude of "issues" to address. Namely, everything about it. It's an aggravating proposition that can exasperate the most experienced of mechanics, up to and including modifying the space it resides. It's a hell of a job.

If you decide to do it anyway, I also would recommend the Beta. It is a very well thought out marine engine, on a Kubota frame. Kubota has been building very fine engines for a long time. And everyone with no exception that I have asked about their new Beta has been a two thumbs up.

jrowan · Jan 9, 2013

Yeah I would agree that Kubota engines are simple & well built, since that's what all of the Universal diesels really are! But he has a Yanmar, & they are also quality built & dependable engines (I've owned some). My point is that its always cheaper to rebuild then repower all together, unless the engine is so damaged from something like a cracked block, etc. that it can't be rebuilt. We all seam to forget that most of the engines that we're talking about are usually 25 - 30 + years old! I think that's proof in itself of their reliability. Yes most of them are taking 6 months of the year off during winter layup, but most gas engines are lucky to last 10 - 15 years before their done for a rebuild or the junk yard. Never seen a diesel from a post 1980 boat that wans't worth rebuilding. If its already in the boat, then work with what you've got & save a lot of money.

Nahart51 · Jan 9, 2013

My Atomic 4 is a 1975 gas engine and runs like a top and gets to hull speed in no time. There are many A4's still out there from the 60's and 70's running just fine. Built by Universal by the way.

ProjMan · Apr 20, 2013

I have had more unfortunate events that have caused a complete loss of my hard work on my Cat 30. My insurance company agreed with the claim for the damage on my engine was caused by taking in water through the dip stick. Engine was rebuilt, shaft replaced, cutlass bearing replaced, electric water pump replaced and all seemed to be working out. While in the boat yard I decided to get some other items done as well: bottom job, sail repairs and others that just cost money.

Run test on engine rebuild ended quickly when the engine died as we went back to the boat yard to get our vehicle. Drive pulley on crank shaft came loose and fly wheel bolts sheered. Engine mechanic ordered parts required. One week later I received a call from boat yard on the same day the mechanic was scheduled to complete 2nd rebuild. "Your boat sunk". Filed a second time with the insurance company and summarized the following: Shewas tied up port side, had a very low tide, port side most have gotten hung up on the dock, she listed, started taking water through the sink drain and took on four feet of water.

Insurance company totaled the boat and I am now on a search for an upgrade. Multiple lessons learned for our first boat. Progressive insurance company was very supportive and fair with these request. Leaning hard and cat 32 and cat 309.

Thought you guys would appreciate hearing that I haven't given up on this great new hobby. I guess once it is in your blood it is there to stay.

Anonymous 121765 · Apr 21, 2013

Stu, JR, Jimmcee,

How are you guys? This seems to be a good thread so I guess I'll chime in.

Orizon,
I have a 1980 C30 originally w/5411 universal. I couldn't get out of my own way. The old school thinking was 2HP per ton. But extend the HP loss from flywheel to prop & you could never get more than 6-7HP @ full RPM.

I did a lot of searching & came down to a 3M20A Universal/Kaboda/Westerbeke, whatever they call em now days.

I did want the 25XP however with my layout, I would have had to cut & extend the front side of the engine compartment for the engine. I didn't want to do that, so I settled on the 3M20A.

It has ample power to motor @ 6KTS in calm conditions. Slower in seas & strong current but ample. I made some motor mount transition brackets, the right prop and.....very satisfied.

Height is another factor and Yanmar & a few others had too high a profile. This was for my year boat, others may have different measurements.

CR