Replacing the Gudgeons on a C-22

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Aldo

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Jan 27, 2005
152
Catalina 22 Middle River, MD
Let's chat about replacing the Gudgeons on a C-22. I know that I read an article, or a response, on this subject one time, but I couldn't find it in the Archives. I really like the gudgeons to fit the pintles so that the rudder doesn't clunk when the tiller is shifted from side to side. Over the years I have made several sets of replacement pintles for my C-22, and I always keep them well greased, but I really think that it is now time to replace the gudgeons. I like what Catalina Direct has done by making replacement gudgeons with nylon bushings in them. I had thought about doing that myself, but it certainly makes more sense just to buy theirs. (In the future, when the bushings wear out, I'll be able to just replace the bushings). The issue is, of course, replacing the upper gudgeon. (My C-22 is a 1980). I am not too excited about (hole)sawing the big hole that Catalina Direct recommends and putting the "Inspection Plate" over the drilled hole. I guess that the upper gudgeon is screwed on the same way that the lower one is, that is, I assume that it is backed with washers and nuts. If this is the case, would it be possible to grind a wrench thin, or make a thin wrench out of a piece of steel, and slide it up between the cockpit and the stern? This would be to keep the nuts from turning while the screws to the old gudgeon are being unscrewed. To screw on the new gudgeon, I was thinking about making a stainless steel plate with the 4 hole pattern drilled and tapped into it, and then pushing it up between the cockpit and stern, and then just screwing the screws into the plate. Does what I have proposed above make any sense to anyone who has already replaced the gudgeons on their C-22? I do have the skills and tooling to make the wrench and plate that I have proposed, and I would really like to keep my C-22 looking like it did when I bought it, and not drill big holes all over it. Thanks, Aldo
 

Ken

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Jun 1, 2004
1,182
Catalina 22 P. P. Y. C.
upper gudgeon

Aldo, This is not as hard as it seems, there are a few things one doesn't want to do though. trust me I did them all. First thing is you need two 1/4" all thread rods. Take out the outer two bolts and replace with the all thread then take out the inner bolts. Slide off the gudgeon caulk the new gudgeon and slide it on the all thread replace the inner bolts and remove the all thread replace the outer bolts, project over! If you want to read about my experience take a look at the fleet 52 website. Was it worth the change you bet changed the feel of the boat. http://www.highlandyachtclub.org/Fleet52/
 

Aldo

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Jan 27, 2005
152
Catalina 22 Middle River, MD
Thanks Ken!

Ken: Thanks for your reply, and thanks for writing the article on your fleet's webpage. So there is a plate backing the upper gudgeon but it isn't epoxied in. I feel a lot more comfortable now after reading your article. I have worked with mirrors on my boat too, and I agree that it is sure challenging. Thanks to you, I shouldn't have to do that again for this little project. How did it change the feel of the boat? Also, how are the Delrin bushings holding up? Do you keep your boat in the water, and do you keep the rudder up or down? Thanks again, Aldo
 

Ken

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Jun 1, 2004
1,182
Catalina 22 P. P. Y. C.
delrin

Aldo, Your welcome, its been two years since I made the change, Changing to the new gudgeons was like adding power steering, I nor a few in the Fleet that haved helmed the boat could belive what a difference it made. I consider the gudgeons and making the heavy tiller straps two of the best changes I've made to the boat. So far I cannot tell there is any wear, I trailer the boat, and a mast up I made also uses the gudgeons. I was concerned at first but after two years and hundreds of miles on them they still look new.
 
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Bayard Gross

replacing pintles and gudgeons

Aldo: When I replaced my gudgeons and pintles, I also opted for the ½ inch upgrade from Catalina Direct. However, I discovered to my chagrin, that the four holes of the new ½ inch gudgeons from Catalina Direct did not match up with the four holes on the original 3/8 inch gudgeons. For the bottom gudgeon, that is not too serious an issue. However, for the top gudgeon that employs a brass bar to support the gudgeon, this becomes a considerable alteration. One cannot employ nuts there without cutting a hole in the cockpit lining, which I also decided to avoid. Further, the amount the holes are off center to the original precluded re-drilling and re-tapping the brass bar. Consequently, I had to bore out the holes in the gudgeons to almost ½ inch diameter to get them to fit onto the original holes. This is an agonizingly slow process that costs a mint in drill bits as the gudgeons are stainless. Also, as alignment is crucial, not changing the original holes on the boat is wise, therefore boring out the holes was the best action to take. As far as the discovery process about that brass bar, I too, like Ken went through a heavy learning curve. In my case, Catalina slapped the equivalent of the cable tube volcano over the brass bar. After unbolting the original upper gudgeon, I pounded off the “volcano” which brought down the brass bar imbedded within it. After removing the volcano off the brass bar, getting that bar back in is tricky, but I managed to do it myself. I slapped some sealant onto the side of the brass bar that lies against the transom. I somehow got its holes lined up with the transom holes using some 1/4 inch drill for temporary support. Then I temporarily secured the brass bar to the transom with bolts (no gudgeon) to let the sealant set up which will support the brass bar when one installs the gudgeons. Installing the new ½ inch pintles onto the rudder generated its own complications as the holes of the new pintles do not match the holes of the original 3/8 inch pintles. Again, as alignment is critical, great care is necessary when installing the pintles. This is not a simple drop in and bolt up application. Finally, when everything is all said and done, the derlin inserts have the nasty habit of jumping out of the gudgeons when I remove the rudder. This is not a crisis if you see it happen and can retrieve the insert. Yet more likely than not, you will not see it happen and it won’t be until the next time you go sailing that you will notice the missing insert. So, word to the wise, carry additional derlin inserts on board. Now Aldo, Ken has hull number 10475, which is at least a 1981 boat. I have hull number 9911, which is a 1981 boat and you have a 1980 boat. Being a betting man, I am willing to bet that your Catalina 22 has parts more similar to mine than those on Ken’s boat. What this means is that there is a distinct possibility that the Catalina Direct’s ½ inch upgrade gudgeons and pintles holes will not match up with the holes on your 1980 boat as they did not on mine. Therefore, you may also feel as I do, that you cannot use the Catalina Direct 3/8 inch replacements as those holes may not match as well. Nevertheless, I have found what I believe are the original pintles and gudgeons on early Catalina 22 boats. I removed the Catalina Direct ½ inch pintles and gudgeons and put these on, so I can attest to their almost exact replacement and very successful operation. Race Lite makes these pintles and gudgeons and they are available from Annapolis Performance Sailing. Heck, Annapolis Performance Sailing may be right up the street from were you live. The gudgeon is part number RL 490. The upper pintle is part number RL 490S (short pin) and the lower pintle is part number RL 490L (long pin). You can see these at the link below. Further, Annapolis Performance Sailing call these pintles and gudgeons Extra Heavy Duty, and I think they are. Aldo, as you use an auto pilot, you may find it best just to replace those parts that you already have as that auto pilot may not like the fancy pants half inch Catalina Direct upgrade. So I hope all this is helpful. Good Luck in your projects. Bayard Gross C-22 #9911 Baby Blue Greenwich, CT
 

Aldo

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Jan 27, 2005
152
Catalina 22 Middle River, MD
Replaced the CD Gudgeons?

Bayard: Thanks for the reply. It's great to hear from you again. And as always, thanks for all the details that you included in your reply. It's interesting to me that you also decided not to drill the hole in the cocpit when you replaced the gudgeons. Relative to elongating the holes on the CD gudgeons. I understand your coment about the hull number of my boat making it more like yours than Ken's . However, I could mill the holes to elongate them, rather than drilling them as you described. This would make that operation easier, and the gudgeons would still center themselves properly, and wouldn't have a tendency to be loose, up and down, or rotate. It looks like you needed to move the holes in yours by about 1/8 inch. Bayard, I don't understand your comments about the new pintles not matching the the holes of the original 3/8 piintles. Was the diameter of the new pintles bigger where they go through the rudder casting? Was the centerline different? Did you have to drill new holes in the direction of the front of the boat? I was surprised to read that the delrin bushings come out when the rudder is removed. The reason that I wanted to have bushings on my rudder, especially delrin ones, was so that I could replace them whenever they got a little loose. I have a little metal lathe, and make this kind of thing all the time. Delrin machines really easily. From what you explained, it sounds like a design change would be appropriate to the bushings either by adding an external clip, or possibly a stop screw to keep them from coming out. Out of curiosity, where did you get your extra inserts, from CD? Did they give you extra inserts, or did you have to purchase them? So, you actually removed your CD pintles and gudgeons and went back to the original design parts. You really must have been dissatisfied. Was it mostly due to the bushings jumping out, or were you concerned due to the holes being elongated? The autopilot doesn't mind the looseness of the pintles as much as I do when I'm on the tiller. The first 2 or 3 years that we had our boat we kept it at a marina right off the Chesapeake, and it rocked all the time. Now, we keep it up Middle River several miles, and it has an easy life. Even in thunderstorms, it just sits protected in it's slip. I also now keep it kicked-up so that there is no stress on it. I think that the gudgeons are still worn from the first few years of wear. I have made many sets of pintles, but I just thought that having Delrin bushings would be the answer. Writing this to you I just had a brainstorm. I could get the gudgeons from CD, and make new bushings to go with the existing pintles. Does this sound feasible to you? Thanks again, Aldo
 
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Bayard Gross

Arrgh Aldo, you have a kick up rudder

Arrgh Aldo, you have a kick up rudder Aldo, As you sail the waters of the great Chesapeake bay, I unfortunately assumed you have a standard rudder, as I do, instead of the kick up rudder as you do. This means comparing your pintles with my pintles is like comparing apples with oranges. Your pintles are pins inserted into the upper metal section of your kick up rudder while I have mine welded to straps that attach to the fiberglass rudder itself. Therefore, you just change pins to change your pintles while I must attach a new pintle with straps onto the rudder. Consequently, when I refer to holes not matching up on the pintles, I am referring to the holes in the straps that attach the pintle to the rudder, which, as noted, you do not experience. Nevertheless, I do not know whether your pins are ½ inch or 3/8 inch, as I think Catalina may have used half inch pintles on its kick up rudder while the standard rudder has (or had as I believe newer boats are ½ inch) 3/8 inch pintles. So, if your pins are 3/8 inch, and you want to upgrade to ½ inch, then you obviously need to make some changes to either the rudder head or the pins. For changing just the pins, it appears you would need only make pins that are ½ inch on the part that enters the gudgeons and then 3/8 inch on the part in the rudder head. This I think is a wise course than boring out the holes in the rudder head to accept ½ inch pins. For the gudgeons, I note an article by Dennis Slaton written in 1998 that can be read on the Catalina 22 Fleet 20 web site at the link below. Toward the bottom of this article he notes that the ½ inch upgrade gudgeon holes do not match the original 3/8 inch gudgeon holes. I think his experience is more likely to be with earlier C-22's, unlike Ken’s more recent C-22. While this does support my concern that the upgrade ½ gudgeons holes may not match your holes, you have a kick up rudder that may have ½ inch gudgeons originally and therefore may have a different hole pattern than the 3/8 inch gudgeon. Maybe if Ken Palmer is reading this, he can respond to say whether he has a kick-up or standard rudder and if it has ½ inch pintles originally or not. Further because you have a kick-up rudder and I do not, drawing any conclusions for yourself from my pintle and gudgeon experiences is inappropriate for you. For one thing, your rudder is heavier than mine, so that alone would make the Catalina Direct ½ inch upgrade gudgeons with the derlin inserts a worthy modification. As far as the derlin inserts popping out is concerned, that would only be a serious issue if one removes their rudder at the end of sailing, as I do. Keeping your rudder, standard or kick-up, on your transom at a mooring or slip, is bad practice, I think, as water may penetrate its core. Ship the rudder into the cabin. The inconvenience of installing it every time for a sail is minor compared to having it break while sailing. Catalina Direct readily supplies extra derlin inserts, so if you do get the upgrade from them, I would also order a couple of spare inserts simultaneously and keep them aboard. So Aldo, if you think everything I said in the earlier post is totally useless to you, you’re probably right. The real reason for my removing the Catalina Direct upgrade ½ inch pintles and gudgeons and replacing with 3/8 inch Race Lite pintles and gudgeons is that the ½ inch ones were “too tight”. By this I do not mean too tight for sailing or operating the rudder, as for that they were fine. By “too tight” I mean the rudder did not lift easily off the gudgeons. This was bothersome when I removed the rudder after sailing. Yet more important, this prevented the rudder from rising up and off the gudgeons when the rudder hits something when I am going along with my keel up. I once hit my own mushroom anchor at low tide when maneuvering about with my keel raised. At that time I had on my original 3/8 inch pintles and gudgeons. The rudder lifted up and out of the gudgeons as opposed to breaking something, such as the pins, the gudgeons, or even damaging the transom. Due to this experience, I concluded, after a season with the Catalina Direct upgrade, that whatever benefits I experienced with the upgrade, my need to have the rudder lift up easily superceded these benefits. Therefore, I opted for the 3/8 inch Race Lite pintles and gudgeons that I find let the rudder lift more easily than the Catalina Direct ½ inch pintles and gudgeons. This past spring when I put in my new Race Lite pintles and gudgeons, one year after I installed the Catalina Direct upgrade ½ inch pintles and gudgeons, a joke went around that I replaced my pintles and gudgeons annually wether I needed to or not. Well, Aldo, may fair winds and weather surround you.
 

Ken

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Jun 1, 2004
1,182
Catalina 22 P. P. Y. C.
pindles

Yes I do have the kick up rudder, and it had 3/8" pindles. They are the pin type with a nut to secure them to the rudder. One then needs to chisle lock the nuts. I would advise using never seize on the pindles and lock tight on the retaining nuts. I have never had the delrin inserts to pop out, as I trailer the boat the rudder is removed often. (although I now think its a good idea to have extras)
 

Aldo

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Jan 27, 2005
152
Catalina 22 Middle River, MD
More on Pintles and Gudgeons

Ken and Bayard, We might as well keep discussing this. There hasn't been anything too exciting on this forum for a while. I guess everyone is working on non-boat winter projects. Anyhow Ken, are your new pintles 1/2 inch on the diameter that goes into the Delrin bushings? I use self-locking nuts on mine, the kind that have the little nylon inserts in them to keep them tight. They may even be double nutted, I haven't looked at my rudder for a while. But, I machined my pintles from rod stock, so the threads may be longer than the ones that you get from CD. Relative to using antiseize, that sounds like a good idea. There certainly is a galvanic corrosion thing going on between the stainless steel pintles and the cast aluminum of the rudder. What I do is wrap plastic shim material around the pintles, (it's around .005 inch thick), and this helps prevent the pintle and rudder from corroding together, and also takes up all the slack between the two. Bayard: Yes, my rudder is a kick-up rudder. To be honest with you, I can't remember when I saw a C-22 rudder that wasn't a kick-up rudder where we sail. I do keep mine kicked-up whenever we aren't sailing, like when the boat is in the slip, and often even when we are at anchor overnight. I use a 1 inch webbed strap to hold the rudder straight front to back, cleating the strap to the stern cleats. The rudder is out of the water and the tip is just near the water. I don't think that it is waterlogged, but it is heavy. I'll weigh it in the spring when I get a chance. I use a 1/8 inch diameter nylon shear pin to keep it in the down position. There is a little leaf spring near one of the pintles that keeps the upper aluminum part of the rudder from jumping off of the gudgeons when the rudder touches the bottom. We don't touch the bottom with the rudder too often, but we certainly have had it kick-up a few several times in the last 24 years. It sounds to me like you are using yours as sort of a kick-up rudder, since you changed to pintles that allow the rudder to come off of the gudgeons easier. Do you have the leaf spring near one of your pintles. If you don't, you might want to consider tying the rudder to the side of the traveler with a little line. You would hate to loose it if it popped off. After discussing this with you I think that I am still leaning toward changing the gudgeons to the ones with the delrin inserts. Not having the rudder clunk when the tiller is moved from side to side would be great. Plus, I think that the delrin bushings would be the wear item since they are made from the softer material, and I can easily buy or make plenty of them and replace them every year. The diameter of my current pintles where they go into the gudgeons is 3/8 on an inch. I don’t really have a problem with that, I’m sure that they are strong enough, but I guess that going to ½ inch would give more bearing surface on the delrin, and allow it to wear longer. Depending on what condition my current pintles are in, I might just make two new bushings for the CD gudgeons 3/8 inch I.D. Do you think my boat would go faster if I made them from Teflon instead of delrin? They both machine like butter. Thanks again for your replies, it’s great to have someone to discuss these little things with while it’s snowing outside. Aldo
 
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Bayard Gross

Kick-up rudder with 1/2 inch gudgeon

Aldo: I will address your last post essentially in the order of your questions. First, regarding your question to Ken Palmer, I will take the unauthorized liberty to answer for him as I think he may be using special ½ inch pins in his kick-up rudder that originally has 3/8 inch pins. I recently discovered that Catalina Direct provides special pins that are ½ inch for the part that enters the gudgeon but 3/8 inch for the part that goes onto the head of a kick up rudder. One sees this upper special pin at http://tinyurl.com/5wjn6 and the lower special lower pin at http://tinyurl.com/5726y These pins permit kick-up rudders with 3/8 inch pins to use the Catalina Direct ½ inch upgrade gudgeons with the delrin insert. One replaces the original 3/8 pins in the kick-up rudder with these special pins that are 3/8 inch for the rudder head and ½ inch for the gudgeon. After reading Ken’s comments, I really think he employed these pins himself, but for some reason he failed to mention this. Depending how adapt you are with your metal turning apparatus, you might make up these pins yourself. Nevertheless, I think their design will follow the Catalina Direct special pins. Second, my rudder floats. Keeping the rudder bone dry in the cabin when not in use does indeed create wonderful benefits. Nevertheless, I discovered that my rudder floats the hard way when I accidentally dropped it into about six feet of water. After panicking as the rudder dropped well below the surface, it pleasantly surprised me to watch it float up. So, I do not require any items to secure the rudder to my vessel. No life line, no leaf spring, both of which would be more of a hindrance when setting up and removing my rudder. Regarding the weight of rudders, you may want to read an article by Dennis Slaton, the skipper of Tar Baby. This is at http://tinyurl.com/4fke2 Third, in light of Ken Palmers very positive experiences with the Catalina Direct ½ inch gudgeon and pintle upgrade with a kick-up rudder like yours, I think you should go ahead with the upgrade. However, do so with the advisement of certain caveats. As you have an “early” boat, you will need to employ the four hole pattern gudgeon. The four hole pattern on the Catalina direct upgrade may have different hole centers than your current gudgeons. This, as noted earlier, was the case for me, and as I subsequently understand is apparently not a unique case. So, if you find the Catalina Direct ½ inch upgrade four hole pattern hole centers do not line up with yours, you will need to plan to rectify the situation. You can enlarge the holes on the upgrade gudgeons. However, as a process it is a poor course, although it should work well and is far simpler than alternatives. If you find that after removing the old gudgeon the tapped metal plate stays in place inside the transom, you may decide that dickering around with that metal plate would be such a hassle, that hole enlargement is the wisest course. You can fill the old holes and drill new holes into your transom. However, you will then need to remove the old strap for holding the screws on the upper gudgeon and make up a new tapped strap for holding the screws on or cut an inspection hole in the cockpit transom wall to reach nuts that hold the gudgeon screws. This is considerable more work than just enlarging the holes. Further, as the new holes must line up perfectly to afford smooth rudder operation, one must take great care in the drilling operation. After you put in the new gudgeons, you can make up whatever inserts you wish of whatever materiel you wish to your heart’s content. I think the metal hole in these new gudgeons is about 5/8 inch in diameter. The hole in the delrin insert is, of course, ½ inch. However, you could experiment with your own insert with a 3/8 inch hole. So I hop all this beneficial to Aldo. Good luck in your projects, and keep ‘em floating.
 
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Bayard Gross

Link error in Bayard Gross post

Of course, the edit function for replies seems to have vanished. Nevertheless, the post written just before this one contains an error in the third instance of "Link submitted by author" Below is the correct link for the Dennis and Pan Slaton Article about rudders.
 
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Bob B.

Thanks guys for all the info on C22

I have been following your discussion closely & feel like I have just completed a diploma course in C22 rudder/gudgeon/pintle. I sail a 1980, hull #9102, swing keel, kick up rudder. My 3/8" pintles are the original. There is some wear but not excessive & works OK for me. One comment I will make. The pintle shank where it fits into the aluminum rudder head is 5/16" with NC thread. (not 3/8") Is the 1/2" upgrade also 5/16" on the shank? On mine, the top pintle is longer with the leaf spring keeper. Without thinking of the consequences, I always leave my rudder in the down position when parked. I have kept the finish paint coat in good shape & feel there is no water in the rudder. The alumnum head & rudder weighs 28 pounds. Does this weight sound correct? I made a 1/4" thick, soft rubber washer approx 6" in diameter to fit between the aluminum rudder head & the rudder to provide more friction. It never kicks up except when needed. I think a few months ago, I saw the C22 parts manual on-line but can't find it now. This illustrated manual showed every nut & bolt on the boat. Do you know where this is on-line or is this just wishful thinking? Thanks again for your contributions to this board. Bob B.
 

Aldo

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Jan 27, 2005
152
Catalina 22 Middle River, MD
Will it Float???

Thanks again Bayard and Bob. Bob: I had the bolt that my rudder pivots on snap one time while I was motoring back to my slip several years ago. I didn't realize it at first, but the tiller felt really sloppy. I have plastic shims on each side of my rudder, between the fiberglass blade and the aluminum housing. I was never successful with using just the clamp to keep the rudder blade from rotating back when sailing. That's why I added the nylon shear pin. Even if the blade moves back an inch, it greatly multiplys the force on the tiller. I'm always amazed at how many C-22 sailors haven't figured this out yet. Anyhow, back to my story. When the rudder broke, the locking handle, of course, went into the water. I made a new handle from a piece of 3/4 inch hex stainless steel. I have used this handle ever since, and it is fine. I actually like it better than the original handle. I replaced the bolt with a high strength stainless bolt. So Bob, you might want to replace your bolt in the rudder too, since you are depending on your clamping force to keep the rudder from kicking up, and since you are probably putting plenty of force onto the bolt. As they ask on the David Letterman Show, "Will it Float", that is, will the blade of the rudder float if it comes out of the housing? I really don't know, but I would bet that it would sink. I glad you wrote with your solution to the kick-up issue. This is about the forth solution that I know of. The first is Catalina's with a detent pin. The second involves bungie cord pulling up on the rudder blade, in front of the pivot point. Using a shear pin is the third, and now your solution with a big rubber pad is the fourth. Aldo
 
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Bayard Gross

For Bob B

I will attempt to address your questions to the best of my knowledge. Please keep in mind, I do not have a kick-up rudder and I have no experience with it. I have a standard rudder, which at least for the pintles, is quite different from the pintles on a kick-up rudder. I do not know the diameter of the threaded part on the pintles for the kick-up rudder. However, I understand that Aldo has made his own replacement pintles, so he would be the definitive expert here. Nevertheless, based upon the pictures and information in the link in the previous post, I would think the Catalina Direct ½ inch upgrade would have 5/16 on the shank as these pintles are supposed to replace the 3/8 inch pintles that you currently have. Nonetheless, your question is a good one that perhaps Ken Palmer who did the Catalina Direct 1/2 inch upgrade with a kick-up rudder with 3/8 inch pintles originally may best answer. Regarding pintle length, for all boats, not just the Catalina 22, with a transom mount rudder, kick-up or standard, the shorter pintle almost universally always goes on top. The rational for this is that it should be easier to install and remove the rudder when the upper pintle is shorter than the lower pintle and therefore enters its gudgeon after the lower pintle starts to enter its gudgeon and helps to align the upper pintle into its gudgeon. Your pintles are backwards. However, I do not think this is necessarily bad, but as it does not follow convention, you may wish to switch your pintles around and see if installation and removal are easier. The metal head in the kick up rudder makes it heavier than the standard rudder. If you read the article by Dennis and Pam Slaton that I mentioned earlier with a link (and link correction), I think you will draw the same conclusion as I and decide that twenty-eight pounds sounds correct for your kick-up rudder. However, you need better expert advice on this than I can provide. If you want to know what happens to a rudder when it gets soaked and breaks, please see http://catalina22fleet20.home.comcast.net/news/rpts/200306/200306.htm#WhatsInsidetheRudder While this article refers to a standard rudder, the same should apply to the blade on a kick-up rudder. So after looking at this, you may decide it is not too much an inconvenience to ship your rudder into your cabin following sailing. Keep in mind, a new blade from Catalina Direct is more than $300 and has heavy shipping charges to boot. That’s USA dollars, Canadian would be higher, although the way things are going, maybe it will be cheaper in the future. Your solution to the kick-up rudder problems appears meritorious in its simplicity. There are many solutions to the friction problem, and if you like yours, then so be it. Again as stated earlier, I have no experience with these kick-up rudder issues. A C-22 parts manual? Thinking that I would know anything about that is wishful; however, maybe its back to the old search engine routine. Well, Bob, enough said at this time. Stay warm
 
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Bayard Gross

Bad Link Bob

Sorry for the incorrect link in the just prvious post. The lack of the edit function, that used to be here, drives me crazy. Nevertheless, the link you want is: http://tinyurl.com/4j2vl
 
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Bayard Gross

How about, Will it break???, Aldo

Aldo, floating may be only half the issue. As I provided in the just previous post, you too might want to see what happens when a C-22 rudder breaks, and then you too may decide that inconvenience of shipping into the cabin is less than more than three hundred dollars for a new blade. Not to mention a possibly ruined summer excursion. If the rudder blade floats, then maybe you could watch it float away when it breaks. If it sinks, then perhaps the heartbreak and wide-eyed wonder of watching it float away will be mitigated by its perpetual disposal into Davy Jones locker. On the other hand, this could give you a wonderful excuse to get a new standard rudder and be done with all those annoying slipping kick-up rudder problems forever.
 
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