I noticed that the port side lower shroud is frailed and needs to be replaced. Should I replace all the standing rigging? What type of cable is best? Also, I noticed that the prior owners used different toggles and turnbuckles for the rigging. Should they be uniform? Since I may have to remove the mast, any signs I should look for to determine if the mast needs to be replaced. Finally, the rigging is attached to plates on the deck, bolted to the inside. Is there a stronger alternative, like having the plate on the inside? Thanks.
Replacing standing rigging on a 78 ODay 23
- Thread starter Herco Dunlop
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Herco,
If your stays have different toggles and turnbuckles it's just an indication that the PO must have been doing some kind of Mickey Mouse repairs to the standing rigging. I would replace it with all new rigging. There could be hair line cracks in the turnbuckles that could be invisible to the eye. I would replace it all. I have all open turnbuckles on my stays and I prefer them to the barrel type.
All you need is have that one frayed stay to break while your sailing in a strong wind and your mast is going to wind up in the water all bent in half. It happened to my boat back in the mid 1990s. Luckily, my boat was insured at the time. I think the bill came to about $2400.00 damage.
Those plates are called tangs. Just check them out to make sure that they are secure. Tangs are supposed to be riveted to the mast. There should be about six to eight holes in each tang for the rivets.
I hope you don't need a mast. Why do you question the need for a mast? Is there any corrosion at the bottom of the mast where the tabernacle plate is attached? Any cracks in the mast or does it just look old and beat up?
I found corrosion at the bottom of my mast and right now I am in the process off constructing the mother of all Mickey Mouse mast extrusions to make up for the 2" I had to cut off the bottom of my mast last summer.
Stainless steel and Aluminum can really cause problems when they are joined together. Stainless steel hardware like mast tangs for instance shouldn't cause problems with electrolysis, but a stainless steel mast plug at the bottom of the mast can and will cause problems especially where water can collect at that combination of metals.
In short Herco, you'll need to bite the bullet to insure that you don't lose the mast which can amount to more money than just replacing the rigging. Trust me on this one.
Joe
You can always be counted on for thoughful, thorough responses. Thanks. No visible damage on the mast at the bottom, I just did not know what damage I should look for. I will look for rust at the top.
Any recommendation as to the size/brand of the turnbuckles or the rigging. I saw on a website 316 size 5/32, 1x19. If that is correct, is it the same for the stays and the shrouds?
I believe you had mentioned in one of your other posting that you had placed a piece of wood between the mast and the deck. It seems that would make the mast stronger than the two pins holding mine in place.
Should I also replace the tangs? I now noticed that the shroud tangs are connected to a metal strip attached to the wood divider inside the cabin. They look fine. The tangs (?) for the forestay and back stay appear different. Any thoughts on these?
Once again, thanks.
Any recommendation as to the size/brand of the turnbuckles or the rigging. I saw on a website 316 size 5/32, 1x19. If that is correct, is it the same for the stays and the shrouds?
I believe you had mentioned in one of your other posting that you had placed a piece of wood between the mast and the deck. It seems that would make the mast stronger than the two pins holding mine in place.
Should I also replace the tangs? I now noticed that the shroud tangs are connected to a metal strip attached to the wood divider inside the cabin. They look fine. The tangs (?) for the forestay and back stay appear different. Any thoughts on these?
Once again, thanks.
The tangs are riveted to the mast for your stay toggle connections. The metal bars that are bolted to your bulkhead are the side stay chainplates. As long as the wood is sound and you're not getting any water intrusion around those chainplates going through the deck, they should be OK. I have the same chainplates on my boat as the O'Day 25 and my lower stays are 5/32". My upper stays are 1/8". I'm not sure what they used on the O'Day 23 to be honest.
I did have a piece of Teak under my mast tabernacle up to last year and I replaced it with Trex. The only reason why I mounted a board under my tabernacle was to make up 1" that I lost when a rigger at Rig-Rite changed over my mast to a stainless steel mast hinge. He never replaced the upper stays on my boat. He only replaced the lower stays and the new mast plug and hinge turned out to be an inch shorter than that chintzy cast aluminum mast hinge that came with my mast. All the spar extrusion for Z-Diffusion spars were built in France and assembled in the states. They were located in Bristol RI at the time.
Losing my mast back then was kind of a blessing in disguise. It gave me the opportunity to get rid of that cheap cast Aluminum mast tabernacle. Add that 1" under my hinge plate on the cabin was another plus that I leaned of years later after I started using a Gin Pole to raise/lower my mast.
As for your stays, I'm not sure what they used on the O'Day 23. Give this guy a call and he can set you up with what you need.
http://www.drmarine.com/ Rudy has everything O'Day and his prices are better than Worst Marine.
I replaced all of the rigging on my '79 Oday 23 about 10 years ago. I just called Rudy at D&R Marine, and he took care of everything as he has the original specs and dimensions. His prices were very competetive. Like Joe, I greatly prefer open turnbuckles. Much easier to inspect and adjust. And as I usually do, I echo Joe's observations about the chainplates: on the 23 they are bolted to the bulkheads. So long as the bulkheads are dry and sound, you are in good shape.
I just wanted to add that a good indication of water intrusion in the area of the chainplates is when the surrounding bulkhead wood turns black. If a gudgion or the back stay chainplate is leaking, you may see rusty water marks on the fiberglass.
I think I have water damage to the port side. The interior wall that holds the chainplate is warped. Will this involve replacing that wall? After inspecting the tang, I see the PO had placed a sealant around it. I will reach out to D&R. Thanks again.
Herco, here are the O'DAY specs for the standing rigging. This would be what Rudy at D&R will make if ordered from him.
All Standing rigging is SS 1x19 type wire and lengths are with turnbuckle (where applicable) closed, from eye to eye (most riggers measure with turnbuckles half-closed, so be sure to note this and/or bring old rigging to rigger to measure for replacement)
If your main bulkhead ("wall") is warped or shows signs of water damage, then yes, it should be replaced. Rudy may have advice about that if you ask. If you are unsure about anything structural on your boat it might be worth looking into a marine survey, cost may be around $300.00 but that might give yo ua better picture of the condition of your boat. Perhaps if you know someone local who you trust to check the boat over for you, you could have them check things instead of having a survey (less $$, but you would still need someone who really knows what to look for).
Standing Rigging Specs.
Headstay: 5/32” x 29’
Upper Shroud:5/32” x 23’
Lower Shrouds: 5/32” x 14’2”
Backstay: 5/32” x 23’8”
Backstay piece below mainsheet attachment triangle: 5/32” x ?
All Standing rigging is SS 1x19 type wire and lengths are with turnbuckle (where applicable) closed, from eye to eye (most riggers measure with turnbuckles half-closed, so be sure to note this and/or bring old rigging to rigger to measure for replacement)
If your main bulkhead ("wall") is warped or shows signs of water damage, then yes, it should be replaced. Rudy may have advice about that if you ask. If you are unsure about anything structural on your boat it might be worth looking into a marine survey, cost may be around $300.00 but that might give yo ua better picture of the condition of your boat. Perhaps if you know someone local who you trust to check the boat over for you, you could have them check things instead of having a survey (less $$, but you would still need someone who really knows what to look for).
Rudy will need you to measure that backstay tail, the last one on Sunbird's specs, indicated with a "?". They used different measurements on them over the years, which of course affects the length of the backstay above the triangle, as well.
I found the measurements I used when I had my replacement rigging made over ten years ago. With one exception (the upper shrouds), it seems to match closely Sunbird's standard specs:
Lower shrouds
14’4”
Upper shrouds
28’
Forestay
29’1”
Backstay
28’11’ to triangle; 16” triangle to chainplate
Height of mast
27’
Note the 16" length for the piece of rigging to attach the backstay/triangle to the chainplate.
I recall that when I ordered, Rudy had measurements at hand, and we compared my measurements to his. I don't recall anything like a 5 foot difference in any of those numbers. Unfortunately, this was so long ago that I can't remember the details or explain the difference between the standard specs and what I have down in my files.
However, if you use some basic geometry, you can see that 23' measurement cited in the basic specs has to be wrong. The mast height on an Oday 23 of that vintage is 27'. The shrouds attach to the mast about a foot below the mast cap, but the height of the cabin above the deck is about a foot at that point. The beam of the boat is just over 7', with the chainplates located very close to the toe rail.
If you apply Mr. Pythagoras' Theorem to a right triangle with one side of 27 feet (mast side) and another side of 3.25 feet (deck side), you get a value of just over 27 feet for the third (shroud) side. This is closer to my measurement of 28 feet than the standard spec given of 23 feet. Of course, if the mast is down, measuring for yourself is a piece of cake.
Lower shrouds
14’4”
Upper shrouds
28’
Forestay
29’1”
Backstay
28’11’ to triangle; 16” triangle to chainplate
Height of mast
27’
Note the 16" length for the piece of rigging to attach the backstay/triangle to the chainplate.
I recall that when I ordered, Rudy had measurements at hand, and we compared my measurements to his. I don't recall anything like a 5 foot difference in any of those numbers. Unfortunately, this was so long ago that I can't remember the details or explain the difference between the standard specs and what I have down in my files.
However, if you use some basic geometry, you can see that 23' measurement cited in the basic specs has to be wrong. The mast height on an Oday 23 of that vintage is 27'. The shrouds attach to the mast about a foot below the mast cap, but the height of the cabin above the deck is about a foot at that point. The beam of the boat is just over 7', with the chainplates located very close to the toe rail.
If you apply Mr. Pythagoras' Theorem to a right triangle with one side of 27 feet (mast side) and another side of 3.25 feet (deck side), you get a value of just over 27 feet for the third (shroud) side. This is closer to my measurement of 28 feet than the standard spec given of 23 feet. Of course, if the mast is down, measuring for yourself is a piece of cake.
I know that the 78 and the 79 O'Day 23's have a Kenyon mast. I spoke to Rudy some time ago, looking for a mast step which he does not carry for the models with that mast. I was wondering if those specs were for that mast, or if they are standard for all the 23's?
Thanks for the information in any case.
The older I get, the more I become aware of what I don't know! And here I thought it was going to be the other way.
MikeB
Thanks for the information in any case.
The older I get, the more I become aware of what I don't know! And here I thought it was going to be the other way.
MikeB
Mike,I know that the 78 and the 79 O'Day 23's have a Kenyon mast. I spoke to Rudy some time ago, looking for a mast step which he does not carry for the models with that mast. I was wondering if those specs were for that mast, or if they are standard for all the 23's?
Thanks for the information in any case.
The older I get, the more I become aware of what I don't know! And here I thought it was going to be the other way.
MikeB
If you can't find a mast plug to fit into the bottom of your mast, you may have to go the same route I'm taking.
I haven't finished it yet but I'm using 1" Trex for the plug and a 1/4" Aluminum plate for the mast to sit on. I'm also using PVC Foam Board between the 1/4" Aluminum plate and the top tabernacle hinge plate. I intend to use two stainless steel bolts to hold it to the hinge plate and wood screws going through the side of the mast and into the Trex plug. It should work. The PVC FB is lighter than Trex and it can be glued and painted. It's pretty tough stuff.
Joe
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If your forestay has toggle fittings at both ends and your mast has tangs for the stay attachments,--I would say no.
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I installed a CDI roller furler over my new headstay; I did not need to replace the headstay with a shorter version.
I was working on retyping that old 1979 O'DAY Rigging Specs memo that is posted elsewhere on this site..... and spotted that "strange" figure for the upper shroud on the 23. With a deck-stepped (and actually, it's cabin-top-stepped) there is no way the upper shroud on a 27' masthead rig could be 23' long! I must have been more than half-asleep when I posted that?? I rechecked it today...... should have been 28'. Sorry for the error!
Thank you to HukilauMike, I have now updated/corrected my copy of the specs.
O’DAY 23 RIGGING SPECS FOR 1977-85 MODELS
(Taken from a 1979 O’DAY memo)
All Standing rigging is SS 1x19 type wire and lengths are with turnbuckle (where applicable) closed, from eye to eye (most riggers measure with turnbuckles half-closed, so be sure to note this and/or bring old rigging to rigger to measure for replacement)
Thank you to HukilauMike, I have now updated/corrected my copy of the specs.
O’DAY 23 RIGGING SPECS FOR 1977-85 MODELS
(Taken from a 1979 O’DAY memo)
Running Rigging Specs.
All Lengths and specifications are approximate and are subject to change without notice
All Lengths and specifications are approximate and are subject to change without notice
Main Halyard: 5/16” x 56’
Jib Halyard: 5/16” x 57’
Mainsheet: 3/8” x 53’
Jib Sheet: 3/8” x 40’ (20’ each side)
Mainsail Outhaul: ¼” x 9’
Boom Downhaul: ¼” x 3’
Topping Lift: ¼” x 27’
Spinnaker Halyard: 5/16” x 56’
Spinnaker Pole Lift: ¼” x 35’
Spinnaker Pole Downhaul: ¼” x 23’
Spinnaker Sheets: ¼” x 44’ (2x)
Genoa Sheets: 3/8” x 60’ (30’ each side)
All running rigging is typically double-braid Dacron (Polyester) rope
Standing Rigging Specs.
Headstay: 5/32” x 29’
Upper Shroud:5/32” x 28’
Lower Shrouds: 5/32” x 14’2”
Backstay: 5/32” x 28’8”
Backstay piece below mainsheet attachment triangle: 5/32” x 16"
Upper Shroud:5/32” x 28’
Lower Shrouds: 5/32” x 14’2”
Backstay: 5/32” x 28’8”
Backstay piece below mainsheet attachment triangle: 5/32” x 16"
All Standing rigging is SS 1x19 type wire and lengths are with turnbuckle (where applicable) closed, from eye to eye (most riggers measure with turnbuckles half-closed, so be sure to note this and/or bring old rigging to rigger to measure for replacement)
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