Since the vinyl coating on my lifelines are cracked and look horrible, i have decided to replace them. I've been looking around on how to do it. So far, I've come across a tool that swags the wire into the swag. Is there a tutorial online with pictures, or has someone done this before, any help would be greatly appreciated. I've seen the West Marine swagging tool for $214, is that what i need to do the job?
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Have it done
I sent my old line to WM and they made new ones. You can buy the swaging tool, but unless you are going into the business or several of you are going in together, why spend the money for a tool that's going to gather dust after that? Any rigger can make them, doesn't have to be WM.
I sent my old line to WM and they made new ones. You can buy the swaging tool, but unless you are going into the business or several of you are going in together, why spend the money for a tool that's going to gather dust after that? Any rigger can make them, doesn't have to be WM.
I'd suggest you ask the store manager
if you could use the store's swage tool. It might cost more to buy the parts at WM but you'd save alot if he/she said yes. They make the sale - you do with labor - good deal for both parties and someone there should be able to show you how to do it
if you could use the store's swage tool. It might cost more to buy the parts at WM but you'd save alot if he/she said yes. They make the sale - you do with labor - good deal for both parties and someone there should be able to show you how to do it
I'm not sure
...if all West Marine/Boat US stores have rigging stations, but all the ones in this area do. When I replaced the lifelines on my old C&C, I measured the old ones a million times, bought the wire at BoatUS, together with the Hayn's end fittings, and swaged them in the store. Their rigging station had everything needed: cutters, swagers, crimps, etc. I think it cost about half what it would have cost to have West or Defender do it for me. BTW, the next time I do this job, I plan to buy uncoated plain wire. I will cover the wire that surrounds the cockpit with those PVC snap on shroud covers.
...if all West Marine/Boat US stores have rigging stations, but all the ones in this area do. When I replaced the lifelines on my old C&C, I measured the old ones a million times, bought the wire at BoatUS, together with the Hayn's end fittings, and swaged them in the store. Their rigging station had everything needed: cutters, swagers, crimps, etc. I think it cost about half what it would have cost to have West or Defender do it for me. BTW, the next time I do this job, I plan to buy uncoated plain wire. I will cover the wire that surrounds the cockpit with those PVC snap on shroud covers.
I don't mind doing it myself....
Nor do i mind paying for it, i know some other people could use it to. I've been looking around and the hand swagging tools are for copper or aluminium only, while some of the fitting are for hand swagged, I'm confused as heck. Plus, the closest West Marine store is over an hour and half from where i live, i'd hate to be making trips back and forth.
Nor do i mind paying for it, i know some other people could use it to. I've been looking around and the hand swagging tools are for copper or aluminium only, while some of the fitting are for hand swagged, I'm confused as heck. Plus, the closest West Marine store is over an hour and half from where i live, i'd hate to be making trips back and forth.
Commercial Rigging guys
Look in the yellow pages. I used a commercial rigging guy for headstay and many other swagging stuff. They make heavy duty hoisting, lifting and worker safety stuff. Not too expensive for about $20-$30 a joint depending on size. WM can only do nicopress by yourself but not inline swagging which requires a lot of pressure to squeeze SS cable ends.
Look in the yellow pages. I used a commercial rigging guy for headstay and many other swagging stuff. They make heavy duty hoisting, lifting and worker safety stuff. Not too expensive for about $20-$30 a joint depending on size. WM can only do nicopress by yourself but not inline swagging which requires a lot of pressure to squeeze SS cable ends.
Swage or Nicopress
Lifeline fitting designed to be attached with a nicopress tool instead of a swager do not develop the full strength of the wire. One popular brand of that style goes by the name of Seacure. Because I think lifelines need to be as strong as possible I would make them using a swage instead of anything else. All the best, Robert Gainer
Lifeline fitting designed to be attached with a nicopress tool instead of a swager do not develop the full strength of the wire. One popular brand of that style goes by the name of Seacure. Because I think lifelines need to be as strong as possible I would make them using a swage instead of anything else. All the best, Robert Gainer
Be careful
I recently had to have a lifeline modified and went to the local West Marine who had what I thought was a proper swage tool. They informed me that there are two different swage tools used. One for critical components such as lifelines and rigging, the other for non stress bearing needs. Apparently it's difficult to ensure a reliable swage with any of the handheld tools. They would have allowed me to use their tool but were clear to state they would not be liable for any failures/accidents as a result. I chose to have Fawcett's in Annapolis do the job which came to $9 for a new end fitting and the labor. A pretty good deal and much safer too. There are a number of rigging shops that will give you estimates if you provide them with the specs. I did this with my last boat and was very satisfied with the cost and work. Good luck
I recently had to have a lifeline modified and went to the local West Marine who had what I thought was a proper swage tool. They informed me that there are two different swage tools used. One for critical components such as lifelines and rigging, the other for non stress bearing needs. Apparently it's difficult to ensure a reliable swage with any of the handheld tools. They would have allowed me to use their tool but were clear to state they would not be liable for any failures/accidents as a result. I chose to have Fawcett's in Annapolis do the job which came to $9 for a new end fitting and the labor. A pretty good deal and much safer too. There are a number of rigging shops that will give you estimates if you provide them with the specs. I did this with my last boat and was very satisfied with the cost and work. Good luck
I'm with Steve O.
I had WM do new ones years ago for a Catalina 25. You send them the old ones and presto, get new ones. God forbid someone roll overboard through your homemade's.
I had WM do new ones years ago for a Catalina 25. You send them the old ones and presto, get new ones. God forbid someone roll overboard through your homemade's.
WM is SOOOO Easy!
1. Take off the old lifelines 2. Wrap 'em up/coil them. 3. Bring them to WM 4. Tell them to make another set "just like these" 5. Pick 'em up from WM 6. Install. Any questions?
1. Take off the old lifelines 2. Wrap 'em up/coil them. 3. Bring them to WM 4. Tell them to make another set "just like these" 5. Pick 'em up from WM 6. Install. Any questions?
Sampson Amsteel Dyneema
First: I want to be very clear that I am NOT recommending Amsteel dynama for life lines. What I am wondering is why not? It is significantly stronger than lifeline cable for a given diameter and WM claims it can outlast wire. I suppose the chafe issue would have to be dealt with where it passes through a stanchion, but you also get damage to wire at the same place once it wears through the plastic. Since the stuff is easy to splice, it would be a piece of cake to splice in a thinble and attach to normal lifeline fittings. It is also less expensive than coated wqire of the same size.
First: I want to be very clear that I am NOT recommending Amsteel dynama for life lines. What I am wondering is why not? It is significantly stronger than lifeline cable for a given diameter and WM claims it can outlast wire. I suppose the chafe issue would have to be dealt with where it passes through a stanchion, but you also get damage to wire at the same place once it wears through the plastic. Since the stuff is easy to splice, it would be a piece of cake to splice in a thinble and attach to normal lifeline fittings. It is also less expensive than coated wqire of the same size.
If for appearance only, cover them with the tubes
used to cover the shrouds ! The tubes come in 6' lenght of various diameter. Maybe a couple of bucks per lenght ! Much cheaper than re-doing the whole thing. But again, this will not give you a brand new SS wire ! Good luck
used to cover the shrouds ! The tubes come in 6' lenght of various diameter. Maybe a couple of bucks per lenght ! Much cheaper than re-doing the whole thing. But again, this will not give you a brand new SS wire ! Good luck
Don't even think about it ... please
Samson Amsteel is wonderful suff no doubt, but not for lifelines on a boat. C Sherman Johnson has a line of fittings for using 1/4" Amsteel for lifelines. From their Catalog: "Johnson now offers its popular Life Line Fittings with eye ends for today's high-tech, low stretch line. Johnson recommends and sells 1/4" dia. AmSteel in grey from Samson. This line is a 12 strand single braid, 1/7th the weight of 1/4" 1x19 cable, offering the same strength for about the same cost. Johnson recommends changing out the line at three year intervals. Professional splicing recommended." Note two highlights, *change out at three year intervals* and *Professional splicing recommended* Cost Comparison: Amsteel: $147 Hardware, $70 Amsteel, 6 Splices @ $20 (if you can get a pro to do it for that) $120 = $337 for 1 lifeline on a 30-35 foot boat. Every 3 Years, you spend another $190 for line and splicing. 3/16" 1x19 SS Cable: $160 Hardware, $39 Cable, 6 swages $60 = $259 The Amsteel system works out to $78 more than SS Cable. The Cable will go 10 years. So after 10 years, the Amsteel option is $648 more PER lifeline. If anyone still thinks that it is a good idea (you do save 70% of the weight of the wire), consider this: 3.14.6 Lifeline Minimum Diameters, Required Materials, Specifications a) Lifelines shall be stranded stainless steel wire of minimum diameter in table 8 below. Lifelines shall be uncoated and used without close-fitting sleeving. ** Notwithstanding 3.14.6 (a), temporary sleeving may be fitted provided it is regularly removed for inspection ** b) Grade 316 stainless wire is recommended. ** c) A taut lanyard of synthetic rope may be used to secure lifelines provided the gap it closes does not exceed 100 mm (4 in). ** d) All wire, fittings, anchorage points, fixtures and lanyards shall comprise a lifeline enclosure system which has at all points at least the breaking strength of the required lifeline wire. Note that coated lifelines are not legal for racing, neither is Amsteel. Don't even think about it, they are Life Lines. Randy
Samson Amsteel is wonderful suff no doubt, but not for lifelines on a boat. C Sherman Johnson has a line of fittings for using 1/4" Amsteel for lifelines. From their Catalog: "Johnson now offers its popular Life Line Fittings with eye ends for today's high-tech, low stretch line. Johnson recommends and sells 1/4" dia. AmSteel in grey from Samson. This line is a 12 strand single braid, 1/7th the weight of 1/4" 1x19 cable, offering the same strength for about the same cost. Johnson recommends changing out the line at three year intervals. Professional splicing recommended." Note two highlights, *change out at three year intervals* and *Professional splicing recommended* Cost Comparison: Amsteel: $147 Hardware, $70 Amsteel, 6 Splices @ $20 (if you can get a pro to do it for that) $120 = $337 for 1 lifeline on a 30-35 foot boat. Every 3 Years, you spend another $190 for line and splicing. 3/16" 1x19 SS Cable: $160 Hardware, $39 Cable, 6 swages $60 = $259 The Amsteel system works out to $78 more than SS Cable. The Cable will go 10 years. So after 10 years, the Amsteel option is $648 more PER lifeline. If anyone still thinks that it is a good idea (you do save 70% of the weight of the wire), consider this: 3.14.6 Lifeline Minimum Diameters, Required Materials, Specifications a) Lifelines shall be stranded stainless steel wire of minimum diameter in table 8 below. Lifelines shall be uncoated and used without close-fitting sleeving. ** Notwithstanding 3.14.6 (a), temporary sleeving may be fitted provided it is regularly removed for inspection ** b) Grade 316 stainless wire is recommended. ** c) A taut lanyard of synthetic rope may be used to secure lifelines provided the gap it closes does not exceed 100 mm (4 in). ** d) All wire, fittings, anchorage points, fixtures and lanyards shall comprise a lifeline enclosure system which has at all points at least the breaking strength of the required lifeline wire. Note that coated lifelines are not legal for racing, neither is Amsteel. Don't even think about it, they are Life Lines. Randy
Revised concept
Lifelines "should" be able to keep people on board and hold "stuff" in. In my experience, most lifelines on our recreational boats are too low to begin with. Most recommendations are 30 to 36 inches. Most I've seen, even on larger 36-40 foot boats are still only 24 inches. I use ours just for handholds going fore and aft on deck. I also doubt if our stanchions would hold the weight of a hard pressed body if in a man overboard during offshore sailing. By "our" I mean the general type of stanchion seen on coastal cruisers, through bolted but one inch stainless. Lots of us have read about ocean going and designed vessels and their lfieline systems, and perhaps mistakenly apply those concepts to our recreational boats. I'd suggest a new approach: the lifelines may not, can not, and probably shouldn't be relied upon, for those kinds of things that people generally ascribe them to be able to perform. So, if the stanchions are gonna crack when even lightly loaded because of the way they were built originally, and the lifeline is suspect to begin with or may even have a load bearing capacity in excess of the stanchions, perhaps it's time to simply consider them just as light weight handholds for use when moving about on deck. Then it becomes a choice of: 1. coated lifelines with their inherent tendency to rot the stainless under the plastic 2. uncoated stainless 3. line, needing replacement more often than stainless 4. stainless with the shroud plastic on top or any combination of covering either completely or partially. Just another approach.
Lifelines "should" be able to keep people on board and hold "stuff" in. In my experience, most lifelines on our recreational boats are too low to begin with. Most recommendations are 30 to 36 inches. Most I've seen, even on larger 36-40 foot boats are still only 24 inches. I use ours just for handholds going fore and aft on deck. I also doubt if our stanchions would hold the weight of a hard pressed body if in a man overboard during offshore sailing. By "our" I mean the general type of stanchion seen on coastal cruisers, through bolted but one inch stainless. Lots of us have read about ocean going and designed vessels and their lfieline systems, and perhaps mistakenly apply those concepts to our recreational boats. I'd suggest a new approach: the lifelines may not, can not, and probably shouldn't be relied upon, for those kinds of things that people generally ascribe them to be able to perform. So, if the stanchions are gonna crack when even lightly loaded because of the way they were built originally, and the lifeline is suspect to begin with or may even have a load bearing capacity in excess of the stanchions, perhaps it's time to simply consider them just as light weight handholds for use when moving about on deck. Then it becomes a choice of: 1. coated lifelines with their inherent tendency to rot the stainless under the plastic 2. uncoated stainless 3. line, needing replacement more often than stainless 4. stainless with the shroud plastic on top or any combination of covering either completely or partially. Just another approach.
Good point Stu
The week links in the lifeline system are 1/4" diameter pins that attach the lifelines to the boat. Spectra lashing is stronger. In the days when Radio Direction Finders were more common, lashing the lifelines was common practice to break up the loop made by the pulpit, lifelines, and stern rail. The loop was said to interfere with RDF operation. I agree that 24" is too low for real security, if a boat carries passengers for hire I think the requirement goes to 30" or so in Canada. On race boats, the lifelines have been turned into hiking aids, and are not really designed with security as the first priority. None the less, a 3600 pound test wire has a pretty good chance of holding you on or close to the boat, even if you bend the stanchions on your way over the side.
Proper jacklines, harness and tether provide much more security than the lifelines. As far as I'm concerned the only option that makes sense is bare 1x19 SSAC. 3/16" is a minimum for my piece of mind, although the offshore rules allow 1/8" on boats under 28ft, and don't require 3/16" until the boat is over 43ft. They may not be the best, but lifelines on 24" stanchions is what most of us have. I just can't see making them any less reliable by using components and methods (like HandiCrimps or coated wire) that are known to reduce their strength.
The week links in the lifeline system are 1/4" diameter pins that attach the lifelines to the boat. Spectra lashing is stronger. In the days when Radio Direction Finders were more common, lashing the lifelines was common practice to break up the loop made by the pulpit, lifelines, and stern rail. The loop was said to interfere with RDF operation. I agree that 24" is too low for real security, if a boat carries passengers for hire I think the requirement goes to 30" or so in Canada. On race boats, the lifelines have been turned into hiking aids, and are not really designed with security as the first priority. None the less, a 3600 pound test wire has a pretty good chance of holding you on or close to the boat, even if you bend the stanchions on your way over the side.
Proper jacklines, harness and tether provide much more security than the lifelines. As far as I'm concerned the only option that makes sense is bare 1x19 SSAC. 3/16" is a minimum for my piece of mind, although the offshore rules allow 1/8" on boats under 28ft, and don't require 3/16" until the boat is over 43ft. They may not be the best, but lifelines on 24" stanchions is what most of us have. I just can't see making them any less reliable by using components and methods (like HandiCrimps or coated wire) that are known to reduce their strength.
Learn to splice wire
Go buy a roll and of SS wire the right size, a wire fid, and splice your own. This is one of those skills that you may not need very oftern but when you do you really don't have any other option. You can use the same argument for purchasing a swag tool.
Go buy a roll and of SS wire the right size, a wire fid, and splice your own. This is one of those skills that you may not need very oftern but when you do you really don't have any other option. You can use the same argument for purchasing a swag tool.
Splicing may not be the best way
Gee, I always thought a fid for wire was called a marlinspike. In this day and age with stainless wire splicing may not be the best way to go. You need to cover the area of the splice with something like leather or marline and that keeps out the oxygen so the stainless has an opportunity to suffer corrosion without your noticing it. Also if you want to start splicing wire its better if you have a riggers vise. Another expensive (I paid a lot for mine) tool that see very little use. But as they say different ships different long splices. A swager is quite an investment and I don’t know anybody else (I own two and a nicopress tool also) crazy enough to own one for personal use. All the best, Robert Gainer
Gee, I always thought a fid for wire was called a marlinspike. In this day and age with stainless wire splicing may not be the best way to go. You need to cover the area of the splice with something like leather or marline and that keeps out the oxygen so the stainless has an opportunity to suffer corrosion without your noticing it. Also if you want to start splicing wire its better if you have a riggers vise. Another expensive (I paid a lot for mine) tool that see very little use. But as they say different ships different long splices. A swager is quite an investment and I don’t know anybody else (I own two and a nicopress tool also) crazy enough to own one for personal use. All the best, Robert Gainer
I went with wire
Two years ago I decided to have the lifelines on my Hunter 33.5 replaced by our boatyard crew. The vinyl coating had cracks and abrasions and looked just terrible. I had my choice of going with duplicate vinyl coated, or try uncoated wire. I decided to use wire because there is virtually no maintenance and no hidden problem that can exist under a vinyl coating. They used 106 ft. of uncoated wire, 3/16" 1X9. They re-used the old turnbuckles. Total cost for parts and labor was $300. I am not sure what the competive prices would have been.
Two years ago I decided to have the lifelines on my Hunter 33.5 replaced by our boatyard crew. The vinyl coating had cracks and abrasions and looked just terrible. I had my choice of going with duplicate vinyl coated, or try uncoated wire. I decided to use wire because there is virtually no maintenance and no hidden problem that can exist under a vinyl coating. They used 106 ft. of uncoated wire, 3/16" 1X9. They re-used the old turnbuckles. Total cost for parts and labor was $300. I am not sure what the competive prices would have been.
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