I am about to undertake replacment of the fixed ports on our 83-H34. The outside frame is held in place with several screws and appears to be bonded with a white sealant. Does anyone have any suggestions regarding removing the fixed ports? Any ideas as to what would help soften the sealant? Any suggestions as to the best sealent to use? Once the frame is out I would then remove and replace the window. It appears to be bonded to the frame with a black sealant. Again, any suggestions that may assist removal and replacement will be welcome. Thanks, Scott 83-H34 Island Hops IslandHops@DuraLan.com
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John
Dow Sealant
The sealant Hunter has been using for years is Dow 795 and 995 (not positive about the first digit but the Hunter parts people would be happy to clarify; they also sell it). One of these is the sealant used in places such as the ports, hatches, fixed skylights, screw penetrations into the fiberglass, etc. The other (995?) is used for stantion screws, wire/cable penetrations, etc. It is 'non-hardening', similar to what is used in refrigeration. The ports on our '88 H-35 are the same or similar to yours and the old ones are out of the boat as I write this and the new ones are stacked up inside ready to be put in. Caulking: only need to caulk the outside of the coach roof/port joint. Putting sealant on the inside does nothing except prevent you from finding where the leak is comming from. Any leak water will surely travel somewhere else and drip where you don't want it (nav station, & galley storage for me). This is a major disadvantage of a liner boat. Recommendation: The factory cut out the port openings and inserted the ports. To maximize sealant contact area, take a file or grinder and bevel the outside of the port opening, say, 45 or 60 degrees, as much as possible. Beckson ports have a trim ring that has a bevel on the side that faces the coach roof. The combination of these two bevels will provide a large contact area with the new port. The greater the gap the better the seal will be. Dow recommends 2:1 for the width:thickness ratio. This allows the sealant to act like a rubber band vice rigid glue. If the outside is held in place with screws (mine aren't), recommend both the coach roof and the back of the port or trim ring be counter sunk to the maximum extent possible to provide more room for the sealant. My ports are held in place with screws on the inside for which I will use no sealant. Black sealant has more UV resistance than white. The same tends to be true for wire insulation. Bayliner also uses Dow sealant but for some reason it is not sold in marine stores. The new ports are going to really look great!
The sealant Hunter has been using for years is Dow 795 and 995 (not positive about the first digit but the Hunter parts people would be happy to clarify; they also sell it). One of these is the sealant used in places such as the ports, hatches, fixed skylights, screw penetrations into the fiberglass, etc. The other (995?) is used for stantion screws, wire/cable penetrations, etc. It is 'non-hardening', similar to what is used in refrigeration. The ports on our '88 H-35 are the same or similar to yours and the old ones are out of the boat as I write this and the new ones are stacked up inside ready to be put in. Caulking: only need to caulk the outside of the coach roof/port joint. Putting sealant on the inside does nothing except prevent you from finding where the leak is comming from. Any leak water will surely travel somewhere else and drip where you don't want it (nav station, & galley storage for me). This is a major disadvantage of a liner boat. Recommendation: The factory cut out the port openings and inserted the ports. To maximize sealant contact area, take a file or grinder and bevel the outside of the port opening, say, 45 or 60 degrees, as much as possible. Beckson ports have a trim ring that has a bevel on the side that faces the coach roof. The combination of these two bevels will provide a large contact area with the new port. The greater the gap the better the seal will be. Dow recommends 2:1 for the width:thickness ratio. This allows the sealant to act like a rubber band vice rigid glue. If the outside is held in place with screws (mine aren't), recommend both the coach roof and the back of the port or trim ring be counter sunk to the maximum extent possible to provide more room for the sealant. My ports are held in place with screws on the inside for which I will use no sealant. Black sealant has more UV resistance than white. The same tends to be true for wire insulation. Bayliner also uses Dow sealant but for some reason it is not sold in marine stores. The new ports are going to really look great!
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Jim Oursler in Rockwall
Fixed or opening ports
I was confused as to whether John was referring to fixed or opening ports. The bedding in my 83 opening ports was atrocious, so I replaced that with 3M 4200, and adhesive sealant that is weaker than 5200. I have yet to remove the fixed ports, but would probably again bed with 4200. This job can be a mess. After years of acetone, I discovered 3M adhesive remover, which makes clean-up as easy as removing water drops (almost). My philosophy after seeing all the damage caused by poor sealants is to err toward the strongest rather a more forgiving sealant which hastens repair and then having to fix the rot.
I was confused as to whether John was referring to fixed or opening ports. The bedding in my 83 opening ports was atrocious, so I replaced that with 3M 4200, and adhesive sealant that is weaker than 5200. I have yet to remove the fixed ports, but would probably again bed with 4200. This job can be a mess. After years of acetone, I discovered 3M adhesive remover, which makes clean-up as easy as removing water drops (almost). My philosophy after seeing all the damage caused by poor sealants is to err toward the strongest rather a more forgiving sealant which hastens repair and then having to fix the rot.
J
John
Opps- Jim is correct
Jim is correct - I misread the post. I responded as though the problem was about opening ports. Okay! With regard to the "fixed ports" some of the comments will still apply. Huner uses Dow sealant and the jist of a few other items still apply Last summer (the only time one can do sealant work in the Northwest - requires a dry surface, you know!), I removed my skylights (fixed ports) and rebeded them. After LEAKING FOR 10 YEARS (yes, I'm yelling), they have not leaked since, nary a drop!!!! The secret to this success has to do with providing room for the sealant to expand and contract. The 2:1 ratio I mentioned earlier. The factory had some clearances less than 0.003 inches, way too small for 1/2-inch plexiglass. By the formula the clearance should be one inch. I found that even 3/8-inch worked adequately so far. The othe secret is to countersink the screw holes in the gel-coat and on the bottom side of the plexiglass (where the screws go through the plastic. Details of this should be in the archives somewhere as I wrote up a detail on all this last year. Also, a recent issue of Sail magazine (June or July?) had an article that said pretty much the same thing (they must have read my post!). Oh, and don't forget to drill out the screw holes where the screws go through the plexiglass. Same principle applies, give clearance around the screw for the sealant. The factory had the screw holes barely large enough for the screws to fit - way too small. Use bump-ons! Order these from Hunter, cheap- a buck? Keeps the plexiglass off the gel-coat. Used on the newer XX.5 models. Same principle, give clearance for the sealant. Only apply sealant around the primiter of the skylight; don't put any where it rests on the coach roof (except at screw hole locations). Need to allow movement of the plastic and also, if you ever need to remove it you'll still be able to. When removing the skylights be very careful NOT TO APPLY EXCESSIVE FORCE! If it breaks, and it will easily, it cannot be replaced!!!! Take it easy! Don't force it. The plastic can't be glued, either. Although my skylights were originally installed with white sealant, I used black as it is more UV resistant. I masked a standard width (use green or blue tape, not that tan stuff) around the top and it looks good. Keep the lines and sheets out of the sealant for a day or two until it cures. Hope this helps. Like I said, no leaks for a year!!
Jim is correct - I misread the post. I responded as though the problem was about opening ports. Okay! With regard to the "fixed ports" some of the comments will still apply. Huner uses Dow sealant and the jist of a few other items still apply Last summer (the only time one can do sealant work in the Northwest - requires a dry surface, you know!), I removed my skylights (fixed ports) and rebeded them. After LEAKING FOR 10 YEARS (yes, I'm yelling), they have not leaked since, nary a drop!!!! The secret to this success has to do with providing room for the sealant to expand and contract. The 2:1 ratio I mentioned earlier. The factory had some clearances less than 0.003 inches, way too small for 1/2-inch plexiglass. By the formula the clearance should be one inch. I found that even 3/8-inch worked adequately so far. The othe secret is to countersink the screw holes in the gel-coat and on the bottom side of the plexiglass (where the screws go through the plastic. Details of this should be in the archives somewhere as I wrote up a detail on all this last year. Also, a recent issue of Sail magazine (June or July?) had an article that said pretty much the same thing (they must have read my post!). Oh, and don't forget to drill out the screw holes where the screws go through the plexiglass. Same principle applies, give clearance around the screw for the sealant. The factory had the screw holes barely large enough for the screws to fit - way too small. Use bump-ons! Order these from Hunter, cheap- a buck? Keeps the plexiglass off the gel-coat. Used on the newer XX.5 models. Same principle, give clearance for the sealant. Only apply sealant around the primiter of the skylight; don't put any where it rests on the coach roof (except at screw hole locations). Need to allow movement of the plastic and also, if you ever need to remove it you'll still be able to. When removing the skylights be very careful NOT TO APPLY EXCESSIVE FORCE! If it breaks, and it will easily, it cannot be replaced!!!! Take it easy! Don't force it. The plastic can't be glued, either. Although my skylights were originally installed with white sealant, I used black as it is more UV resistant. I masked a standard width (use green or blue tape, not that tan stuff) around the top and it looks good. Keep the lines and sheets out of the sealant for a day or two until it cures. Hope this helps. Like I said, no leaks for a year!!
J
John
Frame question
Mention was made of a frame on the fixed port - on our '88 there is no frame, rather, the fixed port (I call a skylight) is held in place with screws and sealant. We'll be going to a Hunter rendezvous in Port Townsend this weekend and maybe I'll see if we're talking about the same/similar thing. I don't remember the 34 having skylights and I thought all the ports opened. I tried to buy a 34 in '87 - they're a really nice boat!
Mention was made of a frame on the fixed port - on our '88 there is no frame, rather, the fixed port (I call a skylight) is held in place with screws and sealant. We'll be going to a Hunter rendezvous in Port Townsend this weekend and maybe I'll see if we're talking about the same/similar thing. I don't remember the 34 having skylights and I thought all the ports opened. I tried to buy a 34 in '87 - they're a really nice boat!
J
Jim Oursler
34 fixed and opening ports
In response to the person who didn't know port types on the H34. The 34 has both fixed and opening ports on the coach roof sides. The fixed are the ones that cloud up.. hence so much discussion on polishing with the motorcycle type scratch removers. The opening ports were made by Grey, now bomar, and leak due to bad caulk and due to worn seals (Bomar has the seals, which surprising look like they won't fit when you get the roll from your distributor on special order, buy really do).
In response to the person who didn't know port types on the H34. The 34 has both fixed and opening ports on the coach roof sides. The fixed are the ones that cloud up.. hence so much discussion on polishing with the motorcycle type scratch removers. The opening ports were made by Grey, now bomar, and leak due to bad caulk and due to worn seals (Bomar has the seals, which surprising look like they won't fit when you get the roll from your distributor on special order, buy really do).
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Scott Johnston
Fixed Port Replacment - Thanks John & Jim
Thanks for the wealth of information. As Jim stated the 83-H34 has 2 large fixed ports on each side of the coach roof. Unlike the newer models these are held inside of metal frames. This leaves 2 areas prone to leaks - Where the frame is attached (screwed/sealed) to the outside, and where the plexiglass/lexan pannel is sealed into the frame. On our boat the plexiglass had even crazed and cracked in places. Whenever we took a large wave or during a thunderstorm water would drip inside onto the nav station. Drove our 'liquid gold addict' first mate crazy. 'Oh no - Water on the teak!!!'. For saftey reasons I will be replacing all 4 ports. I will score some 3m adhesive remover, Dow 795 (black), and all the other goodies needed for the job. I have found a plastics company here in GA that will cut the plexi to my specs. It is difficult to estimate the precise size so will over compensate and then take the wonder-dremel with me. Will probably do the job next weekend weather permitting. I will take plenty of photos and when developed, scan them for posting on the site. Thanks again for all your assistance. Scott. 83-H34 Island Hops.
Thanks for the wealth of information. As Jim stated the 83-H34 has 2 large fixed ports on each side of the coach roof. Unlike the newer models these are held inside of metal frames. This leaves 2 areas prone to leaks - Where the frame is attached (screwed/sealed) to the outside, and where the plexiglass/lexan pannel is sealed into the frame. On our boat the plexiglass had even crazed and cracked in places. Whenever we took a large wave or during a thunderstorm water would drip inside onto the nav station. Drove our 'liquid gold addict' first mate crazy. 'Oh no - Water on the teak!!!'. For saftey reasons I will be replacing all 4 ports. I will score some 3m adhesive remover, Dow 795 (black), and all the other goodies needed for the job. I have found a plastics company here in GA that will cut the plexi to my specs. It is difficult to estimate the precise size so will over compensate and then take the wonder-dremel with me. Will probably do the job next weekend weather permitting. I will take plenty of photos and when developed, scan them for posting on the site. Thanks again for all your assistance. Scott. 83-H34 Island Hops.
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Ed
H34 ports
Replaced a fixed port on my 34 yesterday. Unless you have a leak, it is not necessary to remove the aluminum frames to replace the glass. the glass is bedded in silicone and held in place by the rubber molding. Whether you remove the frame or not, I would cut the plexiglaass with a saber saw and pull the peices out of the rubber/silicone. then scrape out the silicone bedding with a screwdriver, work the new glass into the rubber frame and rebed with silicone. I removed the frames but found it to be completely dry behind it. It was not an easy job. I cut the bedding on the exterior frame with a utility knife on the top and sides and used an open hose clamp to get at the bottom because it is so close to the deck.
Replaced a fixed port on my 34 yesterday. Unless you have a leak, it is not necessary to remove the aluminum frames to replace the glass. the glass is bedded in silicone and held in place by the rubber molding. Whether you remove the frame or not, I would cut the plexiglaass with a saber saw and pull the peices out of the rubber/silicone. then scrape out the silicone bedding with a screwdriver, work the new glass into the rubber frame and rebed with silicone. I removed the frames but found it to be completely dry behind it. It was not an easy job. I cut the bedding on the exterior frame with a utility knife on the top and sides and used an open hose clamp to get at the bottom because it is so close to the deck.
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