Replacing bilge/ drain hoses - project questions

[Ebbing Lattitude]

Hi all,

Balmy northeast weather has allowed me to get a start early on my spring projects. I have a few updates I'm making and looking for guidance/ suggestions. This is all on a 1984 Freedom 32, no bilge box, but does have a shower sump with pump in floor, and separate power and manual bilge lines. I'm hoping to get the lines in the bilge a little better organized to take advantage of the small amount of space, and if possible, eliminate 1 or more thru hulls.

Being over 30 years old, we are replacing all of the below waterline hoses, which today comprise the head and galley basin drains to a single 1.5 through hull. Also replacing both bilge lines which pump to aft, exiting through 2 separate thru hulls.

If possible, I'd like to connect the shower bilge line to the head basin drain. Is this OK to do, as long as the connection is above water line? This would eliminate one thru hull. I'm considering replacing the pump in the shower bilge with a remote mounted gulper or similar pump as well. Did some searching, but didn't find this specific config. Thinking about the tee into head intake as well, and wondering if all 3 can work together?

Second question: both main bilge lines pump to aft with a loop in lazarette, can I combine them after the loop with a wye in order to eliminate one of the thru hulls? Desire for This change in particular is the manual bilge thru hull is mounted so it pumps onto the swim platform.

Likely will have more questions, but this is where I'm at so far.

 

[Ebbing Lattitude]

It may not be entirely clear that I'm asking about shower/basin drains as one question and main bilge hoses as another. Stream of thought as I typed...

 

[kappykaplan]

Second question: both main bilge lines pump to aft with a loop in lazarette, can I combine them after the loop with a wye in order to eliminate one of the thru hulls? Desire for This change in particular is the manual bilge thru hull is mounted so it pumps onto the swim platform.

Do not combine the bilge lines to a single through hull. The two different through hulls are for redundancy, so that if one becomes blocked you can still get water out of the bilge. The through hulls should be above the water line in this application.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Thinking about the tee into head intake as well, and wondering if all 3 can work together?

Teeing the head intake into the head sink drain is a great plan, but not the shower sump because sumps drain above the waterline.

 

[Ebbing Lattitude]

Thanks Kappy and Peggy,

So looks like I won't be reducing through hulls, but this is helpful input. I haven't had luck finding any diagram, or description in detail as to where to make the connections between the basin drain and head intake. Should this connection be above water where the basin drain exits below water level?

One other thought, I'm guessing maybe more of a preference point. I have not used the through hull for head out to open water as I sail almost exclusively coastally where I can't do so. The through hull, however is located where it could potentially simplify the head basin drain connection. Any reason besides the future potential that I'd want to keep the head connected to through hull?

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

I haven't had luck finding any diagram, or description in detail as to where to make the connections between the basin drain and head intake. Should this connection be above water where the basin drain exits below water level?

There are descriptions all over the net! But one more won't hurt....
Tee the head intake line into the head sink drain line BELOW the waterline, as close to the seacock as possible. This will allow you to flush with sea water normally. To rinse the sea water out of the WHOLE system before the boat will sit, after you've closed all the seacocks (you DO close them???), fill the sink with clean fresh water...flush the toilet. Because the thru-hull is closed the toilet will pull the water out of the sink through the WHOLE system--the intake line, pump, channel in the rim of the bowl AND the discharge line. Pouring water into the bowl only rinses out the discharge line because nothing poured into the bowl is recirculated through the intake (and aren't you glad doesn't!), it just goes out the bottom of the pump,

On some boats it may be necessary to keep a plug in the sink to prevent the toilet from pulling air in, preventing the pump from priming.

 

[Ebbing Lattitude]

Thanks Peggie!

Follow-on questions. New basin drain hoses are much heavier than originals, with wider bend radius. I'm using Shields 148. Is an elbow below water line acceptable in line? Original hose had a 90 degree turn through stringer that the new hose won't bend tight enough to make.

If an elbow is ok, material wise, IS PVC barbed fitting ok double clamped?

 

[C lectric]

I'll take a stab. If the elbow is below the water line, absolutely NO!
Use a MARELON elbow which is fiberglass reinforced nylon.

PVC fittings of any kind have no business in any hose where the fitting will be close to or under the water line.

I would not use a pvc elbow at all unless it is WAY above the waterline at all times. Even then use the Marelon.

 

[Chris & Lenore]

There are descriptions all over the net! But one more won't hurt....
Tee the head intake line into the head sink drain line BELOW the waterline, as close to the seacock as possible. This will allow you to flush with sea water normally. To rinse the sea water out of the WHOLE system before the boat will sit, after you've closed all the seacocks (you DO close them???), fill the sink with clean fresh water...flush the toilet. Because the thru-hull is closed the toilet will pull the water out of the sink through the WHOLE system--the intake line, pump, channel in the rim of the bowl AND the discharge line. Pouring water into the bowl only rinses out the discharge line because nothing poured into the bowl is recirculated through the intake (and aren't you glad doesn't!), it just goes out the bottom of the pump,

On some boats it may be necessary to keep a plug in the sink to prevent the toilet from pulling air in, preventing the pump from priming.

I was also planning to T the sink and head intake. I'm curious how people have actually done this? I cannot find a marine bronze hose T, there are no Marelon T's and a Google search for images turns up nothing.
I finally found one picture that showed a threaded T attached to the thru-hull valve with a coupler and then two bronze hose barbs threaded into the other two holes. Looked pretty "clunky" but regardless, the four local marine stores I checked do not have any threaded bronze T's (nor did they know where to get them). Not sure how to properly do this?

Chris

 

[Stu Jackson]

I cannot find a marine bronze hose T, there are no Marelon T's and a Google search for images turns up nothing.

When in doubt, check WM or Defender.

http://www.westmarine.com/buy/seafit--nylon-hose-tees-barbed--P011_332_002_517

 

[Ebbing Lattitude]

I'll take a stab. If the elbow is below the water line, absolutely NO!
Use a MARELON elbow which is fiberglass reinforced nylon.

Thanks C. I ultimately did go with nylon, although as Chris noted, there appear to be no Marelon elbows made that are barbed on both sides, they all seem to be threaded on one side, which doesn't help with connecting two sections of hose to each other.

I had found some other references to Nylon being acceptable, and Stu pointed to same (elbow vs T in my case) and as I always close seacocks when not in use, and the elbow is pretty accessible, I'm comfortable I'm good to go

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

I was also planning to T the sink and head intake. I'm curious how people have actually done this? I cannot find a marine bronze hose T, there are no Marelon T's and a Google search for images turns up nothing.
I finally found one picture that showed a threaded T attached to the thru-hull valve with a coupler and then two bronze hose barbs threaded into the other two holes. Looked pretty "clunky" but regardless, the four local marine stores I checked do not have any threaded bronze T's (nor did they know where to get them). Not sure how to properly do this? Chris View attachment 120495

Wow! That photo just confirmed that any time there's a way to over-engineer and overproduce something, someone will have done it!
All you need is a 3/4" PVC tee or wye. (and contrary to CL's and EL's opinions, PVC is just fine for this application...but if you're happier with Marelon, use that). Nor is there any reason why you HAVE to buy it at a marine store...The plumbing departments at Home Depot, Lowes and at least a dozen other online sources have the same sch 40, sch 80 and ABS fittings the marine sources have.

Break the sink drain line below the waterline, as close to the seacock as possible. Install the tee or wye in the drain and connect the toilet intake line to it, double clamping all connections...and you're done.

 

[Ebbing Lattitude]

and contrary to CL's and EL's opinions,

Truth be told, I tried to install the PVC in the 148 Hose, and just couldn't get it to go in. The Nylon elbow, along with the KY, inserted just fine without any additional loss of knuckle skin. Double clamped and done...

I'm holding off right now on the T to attach to head intake, primarily because there's just no room left to run another hose.

 

[Chris & Lenore]

Wow! That photo just confirmed that any time there's a way to over-engineer and overproduce something, someone will have done it!
All you need is a 3/4" PVC tee or wye. (and contrary to CL's and EL's opinions, PVC is just fine for this application...but if you're happier with Marelon, use that). Nor is there any reason why you HAVE to buy it at a marine store...The plumbing departments at Home Depot, Lowes and at least a dozen other online sources have the same sch 40, sch 80 and ABS fittings the marine sources have.

Break the sink drain line below the waterline, as close to the seacock as possible. Install the tee or wye in the drain and connect the toilet intake line to it, double clamping all connections...and you're done.

I was under the assumption that plastic fittings below the waterline were not a good idea. There are no Marelon T or Y fittings either (only elbows), so that's not an option.
Guess that's why I could only find that one image of a "bronze solution".

Chris

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

I was under the assumption that plastic fittings below the waterline were not a good idea.

That's true for some applications, but PVC or even nylon is ok for this one. Search the archives for posts from people who've done this, all with plastic fittings...you're likely to find 'em in a whole bunch of forums other than this one.