replacing a mast

[Greg]

FX sails opinion

Hi BillThanks for your suggestions. I have never thought about going this way, that is going the legal way.You are giving me different ideas. I finally got to speak to someone from FX sails. I explained the situation and then listened attentively. The man was very deffensive and hardly let me speak. However, he was not rude. He told me they make a lot of Macgregor sails, always put 3/8" slugs on them and never had any complains or requests to put bigger slugs. I spoke to him before I read your suggestion so I did not mention anything about a possible compensation. In a way I just wanted to hear what he had to say. He said if I wanted I could send him the sail back and he would put bigger slugs on it. I suggested he send me the slugs if he offered them and he agreed. Further he said the size of the slugs did not realy matter since there is really no load on the slugs. As long as they fit in the mast rail and don't come out they should stay there no matter what wind conditons there are. The slugs are only there to keep the sail in place. He also said that even if the slugs came out the mast should not break since when flyng a big spinnaker the tip of the mast is under a lot more stress. In conclusion the man said that mostlikely the slugs came out because my mast was either already weak or improperly rigged, it bent too much and caused the rail to open thus releasing the slugs. (it is interesting why this never happend with my old sail) I called the office of macgregor and I was told their original sails don't come with slugs, they only have 3/8" bolt rope ( plus the dacron that covers it). This really makes no sense. I told them I still have the original macgregor sail with 1/2" slugs. They were puzzled. It is very interesting that even the manufacturer doesn't know any details. I spoke to a number of older mac owners who told me they also have 1/2" slugs on their old sails. I am curious what will be the conclusion of this.Please let me know what you think. Any suggestions would be appreciated.Greetings.PS. what is IMHO?

 

[Greg]

FX sails opinion

Hi BillThanks for your suggestions. I have never thought about going this way, that is going the legal way.You are giving me different ideas. I finally got to speak to someone from FX sails. I explained the situation and then listened attentively. The man was very deffensive and hardly let me speak. However, he was not rude. He told me they make a lot of Macgregor sails, always put 3/8" slugs on them and never had any complains or requests to put bigger slugs. I spoke to him before I read your suggestion so I did not mention anything about a possible compensation. In a way I just wanted to hear what he had to say. He said if I wanted I could send him the sail back and he would put bigger slugs on it. I suggested he send me the slugs if he offered them and he agreed. Further he said the size of the slugs did not realy matter since there is really no load on the slugs. As long as they fit in the mast rail and don't come out they should stay there no matter what wind conditons there are. The slugs are only there to keep the sail in place. He also said that even if the slugs came out the mast should not break since when flyng a big spinnaker the tip of the mast is under a lot more stress. In conclusion the man said that mostlikely the slugs came out because my mast was either already weak or improperly rigged, it bent too much and caused the rail to open thus releasing the slugs. (it is interesting why this never happend with my old sail) I called the office of macgregor and I was told their original sails don't come with slugs, they only have 3/8" bolt rope ( plus the dacron that covers it). This really makes no sense. I told them I still have the original macgregor sail with 1/2" slugs. They were puzzled. It is very interesting that even the manufacturer doesn't know any details. I spoke to a number of older mac owners who told me they also have 1/2" slugs on their old sails. I am curious what will be the conclusion of this.Please let me know what you think. Any suggestions would be appreciated.Greetings.PS. what is IMHO?

 

[walt]

opinion only

Id say tough call.. I dont beleive the you will find any "specification" from the manufacture which says what size slugs can be used and the mast is possibly at least 18 years old and who knows if it was abused previously. I think if the manufacture keeps using 3/8 on Mac sails, they could be on the evil side but seems they have not heard of a previous problem in the past. My sail has a combination of slugs - some which are 3/8..Also, I dont think the people at the sail manufacture are quickly becoming billionairs. Maybe they are already wondering why they are in this business anyhow (are FX sails made local or do they come from China)Id say things get broken sailing and thats the risk we all take. Thankfully no one got hurt and hopefully both the manufacture and the communinity here learned something..Note.. its possible that the back stay bending the mast back would have some tendancy to open up the slug track?? Only my .02 - and worth even less than that.

 

[walt]

opinion only

Id say tough call.. I dont beleive the you will find any "specification" from the manufacture which says what size slugs can be used and the mast is possibly at least 18 years old and who knows if it was abused previously. I think if the manufacture keeps using 3/8 on Mac sails, they could be on the evil side but seems they have not heard of a previous problem in the past. My sail has a combination of slugs - some which are 3/8..Also, I dont think the people at the sail manufacture are quickly becoming billionairs. Maybe they are already wondering why they are in this business anyhow (are FX sails made local or do they come from China)Id say things get broken sailing and thats the risk we all take. Thankfully no one got hurt and hopefully both the manufacture and the communinity here learned something..Note.. its possible that the back stay bending the mast back would have some tendancy to open up the slug track?? Only my .02 - and worth even less than that.

 

[Schoolhouse Steve]

IMHO

My guess, In My Humble Opinion?

 

[Schoolhouse Steve]

IMHO

My guess, In My Humble Opinion?

 

[Bob 04 H260]

slug sizes

Greg, I checked the slugs sizes in my old sail and new sail. My old sail has 1/2" slugs on the original UK sail. They were installed by a sail loft for the original boat owner. They always worked very well, never any jambs. I bought a new full batten sail last winter. I've used this sail all last summer in winds heavy enough that I have had to reef the sail numerous times. There were a few occasions when I should have reefed sooner but did not. I just flattened things out and waited to see if the winds would settle down a bit and enjoyed the ride with the rail in the water. I was just able to actually measure the slugs in my new sail. They are only 5/16" ! They must be similar to yours, they have a smaller diameter in the middle an so only touch the slot at the ends. I will be changing them before heading out sailing on my trip to Florida. I was down at the local chandlery and one person there advised me that smaller slugs would have less friction and less chance of jambing. I'm still leaning towards 1/2" slugs. I'm still puzzled how your accident happened and why. Was this the first time the sail was used ? How big is the gap in the back of your mast ? I have not measured the gap in mine but I think it is less than 1/4".Bob

 

[Bob 04 H260]

slug sizes

Greg, I checked the slugs sizes in my old sail and new sail. My old sail has 1/2" slugs on the original UK sail. They were installed by a sail loft for the original boat owner. They always worked very well, never any jambs. I bought a new full batten sail last winter. I've used this sail all last summer in winds heavy enough that I have had to reef the sail numerous times. There were a few occasions when I should have reefed sooner but did not. I just flattened things out and waited to see if the winds would settle down a bit and enjoyed the ride with the rail in the water. I was just able to actually measure the slugs in my new sail. They are only 5/16" ! They must be similar to yours, they have a smaller diameter in the middle an so only touch the slot at the ends. I will be changing them before heading out sailing on my trip to Florida. I was down at the local chandlery and one person there advised me that smaller slugs would have less friction and less chance of jambing. I'm still leaning towards 1/2" slugs. I'm still puzzled how your accident happened and why. Was this the first time the sail was used ? How big is the gap in the back of your mast ? I have not measured the gap in mine but I think it is less than 1/4".Bob

 

[Joe]

My slugs are 3/8"

I measured the slugs on what I believe to be the original main for my 1990 26S. They measured 3/8" with a tape measure. I will check them again with calipers and also measure the mast slot.

 

[Joe]

My slugs are 3/8"

I measured the slugs on what I believe to be the original main for my 1990 26S. They measured 3/8" with a tape measure. I will check them again with calipers and also measure the mast slot.

 

[Bob 04 H260]

open questions

I'm having trouble trying to understand why the mast on Greg's boat folded. If the sail applied all of the force of the wind to the top of the mast at the halyard would this have been any different than pulling the boat on to it's rail using the main halyard as shown in the Mac videos ? As I'm sure we have all seen, the boat is held on it's rail by the top of the mast and then released. If the boat was traveling in a forward direction then most of the force on the mast would be towards the bow of the boat, was the mast failure because of the backstay ? Is it possible one of the spreaders failed when the slugs came out. I don't know if Greg's boat had the rigid spreader conversion kit installed or not. I've seen Mac's sailed with large spinnakers flying from the top of the mast and they did not have a problem. If anyone can explain this I would feel much better the next time I take my boat out in strong winds, otherwise I'll always be wondering what happened.Bob

 

[Bob 04 H260]

open questions

I'm having trouble trying to understand why the mast on Greg's boat folded. If the sail applied all of the force of the wind to the top of the mast at the halyard would this have been any different than pulling the boat on to it's rail using the main halyard as shown in the Mac videos ? As I'm sure we have all seen, the boat is held on it's rail by the top of the mast and then released. If the boat was traveling in a forward direction then most of the force on the mast would be towards the bow of the boat, was the mast failure because of the backstay ? Is it possible one of the spreaders failed when the slugs came out. I don't know if Greg's boat had the rigid spreader conversion kit installed or not. I've seen Mac's sailed with large spinnakers flying from the top of the mast and they did not have a problem. If anyone can explain this I would feel much better the next time I take my boat out in strong winds, otherwise I'll always be wondering what happened.Bob

 

[Greg]

some answers to Bob's questions

Hi Bob.Don't worry much about breaking your mast. Just enjoy your sailing. We all make one or two mistakes and when you make one you will see it. Hopefully you will make no mistakes but we will never know when it happens. Backstay......rather not. I always keep it a little hanging.Spreaders did not break, they are all in good shape and will be installed on the new mast, and they are not rigid.Sailing the boat in strong winds actually diminishes the possibility of braking the mast since in anythign above 10-15K the main should be reefed thus lowering the center of firce.From all of this I learned that we should never trust in what we buy ( even a most reputable manufacturer) untill we test things ourselves and make finall decision if the equipment is suitable. Any suggestions?

 

[Greg]

some answers to Bob's questions

Hi Bob.Don't worry much about breaking your mast. Just enjoy your sailing. We all make one or two mistakes and when you make one you will see it. Hopefully you will make no mistakes but we will never know when it happens. Backstay......rather not. I always keep it a little hanging.Spreaders did not break, they are all in good shape and will be installed on the new mast, and they are not rigid.Sailing the boat in strong winds actually diminishes the possibility of braking the mast since in anythign above 10-15K the main should be reefed thus lowering the center of firce.From all of this I learned that we should never trust in what we buy ( even a most reputable manufacturer) untill we test things ourselves and make finall decision if the equipment is suitable. Any suggestions?

 

[MrBill_FLL]

write a letter to sail mfg

well, I can understand why the sail rep would be defensive. his brand new sail bent your mast almost hurt someone, and ruined a vacation.... What are they going to about that? I'd ask an attorney if you have a case. just saying.. worth a call.. Did the slugs pull out of the channel or snap? Are they the round type or flat ones? who specified the slugs? I have the round type... and there is some pressure on them. just try to lower it when sheeted in...BTW, fractional rigs fly the spinnaker from the jib halyard, not the top of the mast.. theres no stays above the jib halyard, but front / rear. he should know mac's are fractional.and yeah, mac's have the bolt rope typically from the factory... dealers probably added slugs... mine had them.sorry about the accident.. best of luck!

 

[MrBill_FLL]

write a letter to sail mfg

well, I can understand why the sail rep would be defensive. his brand new sail bent your mast almost hurt someone, and ruined a vacation.... What are they going to about that? I'd ask an attorney if you have a case. just saying.. worth a call.. Did the slugs pull out of the channel or snap? Are they the round type or flat ones? who specified the slugs? I have the round type... and there is some pressure on them. just try to lower it when sheeted in...BTW, fractional rigs fly the spinnaker from the jib halyard, not the top of the mast.. theres no stays above the jib halyard, but front / rear. he should know mac's are fractional.and yeah, mac's have the bolt rope typically from the factory... dealers probably added slugs... mine had them.sorry about the accident.. best of luck!