replacing a mast

Status
Not open for further replies.
G

Greg

Having prepared everything I had in my mind for our Gulfstream crossing and sailing to the Bahamas I expected nothing less than smooth sailing. The weather was perfect 10-15 knots from the east/south east, few clouds, 2-4 foot waves. In all nothing that Mac cannot handle. As soon as we cleared the reefs we hoisted my new main sail from FX sails. Everything was fine, we tacked a few times to put us on the right course. We plotted the final course, tightened the main a bit more and enjoyed bueatiful night sailing. Suddenly I witnessed all the main sail slides popp out of the mast starting from the middle and going in opposite directions. With the main sail attached to the mast only at the tip the mast snapped in half and collapsed. Everything lasted maybe 5 seconds. We surgically tide everything to the deck so at the end nothing was damaged, exept the mast, and headed back to shore. Having experienced this I have some questions about what happened and need some recommendations if it goes to finding another mast. My suspission is that the slides I received with the new sail were just too small. They were smaller than the ones on my old sail. I checked if the slides held and they did but I guess not strong enough. Should the mast brake at all after all the slides popped out? Any suggestions about what happened? Another thing is the mast replacement. the original mast from macgregor is 28 foot long and 3 by 4 inches in diameter. My immediate options are to get a new mast from macgregor or to get one from Dwyer Aluminnum. They make good replacement extursions. In the mean time I already got hold of a used mast but it is 3 by 5 in diameter. Any ideas and suggestion about putting a slightly bigger mast ( not longer)? Will the weight make a significant difference? Will the weight make the boat too top heavy? Any benefits in having a bigger mast? I guess it will be a bit stronger than the original one. Any downsides in heaving a bigger mast? Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thanks......
 
G

Greg

Having prepared everything I had in my mind for our Gulfstream crossing and sailing to the Bahamas I expected nothing less than smooth sailing. The weather was perfect 10-15 knots from the east/south east, few clouds, 2-4 foot waves. In all nothing that Mac cannot handle. As soon as we cleared the reefs we hoisted my new main sail from FX sails. Everything was fine, we tacked a few times to put us on the right course. We plotted the final course, tightened the main a bit more and enjoyed bueatiful night sailing. Suddenly I witnessed all the main sail slides popp out of the mast starting from the middle and going in opposite directions. With the main sail attached to the mast only at the tip the mast snapped in half and collapsed. Everything lasted maybe 5 seconds. We surgically tide everything to the deck so at the end nothing was damaged, exept the mast, and headed back to shore. Having experienced this I have some questions about what happened and need some recommendations if it goes to finding another mast. My suspission is that the slides I received with the new sail were just too small. They were smaller than the ones on my old sail. I checked if the slides held and they did but I guess not strong enough. Should the mast brake at all after all the slides popped out? Any suggestions about what happened? Another thing is the mast replacement. the original mast from macgregor is 28 foot long and 3 by 4 inches in diameter. My immediate options are to get a new mast from macgregor or to get one from Dwyer Aluminnum. They make good replacement extursions. In the mean time I already got hold of a used mast but it is 3 by 5 in diameter. Any ideas and suggestion about putting a slightly bigger mast ( not longer)? Will the weight make a significant difference? Will the weight make the boat too top heavy? Any benefits in having a bigger mast? I guess it will be a bit stronger than the original one. Any downsides in heaving a bigger mast? Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thanks......
 

walt

.
Jun 1, 2007
3,538
Macgregor 26S Hobie TI Ridgway Colorado
slide diameter

Wow... Dont know about the mast questions but I would like to know what the diameter was on your new slides or "slugs". It looked to me like the mast could use anywhere from 5/16 to 1/2 inch diameter. Maybe the small ones ( 5/16? ) are a not a good idea...
 

walt

.
Jun 1, 2007
3,538
Macgregor 26S Hobie TI Ridgway Colorado
slide diameter

Wow... Dont know about the mast questions but I would like to know what the diameter was on your new slides or "slugs". It looked to me like the mast could use anywhere from 5/16 to 1/2 inch diameter. Maybe the small ones ( 5/16? ) are a not a good idea...
 
May 16, 2007
1,509
Boatless ! 26 Ottawa, Ontario
terrible news

Greg, what terrible news. I know you must have worked hard and invested both financially and emotionally to put this trip together. I hope you were able to salvage something out of it all. I think FX sails should have some responsibility for this disaster. Do you know the size of the slides (slugs) used in your sail ? From your description it sounds like the slides pulled right through the mast slot. My old sail (the original sail) used 1/2" slides but the new main I bought last spring has much smaller slides. I'm heading for the Florida Keys next week and your story is making me nervous. I have been using my new mainsail since last spring in some heavy winds on the river here without a problem. Was this the first time you used this sail ? Please let us know what FX sails has to say about this problem. Regards, Bob
 
May 16, 2007
1,509
Boatless ! 26 Ottawa, Ontario
terrible news

Greg, what terrible news. I know you must have worked hard and invested both financially and emotionally to put this trip together. I hope you were able to salvage something out of it all. I think FX sails should have some responsibility for this disaster. Do you know the size of the slides (slugs) used in your sail ? From your description it sounds like the slides pulled right through the mast slot. My old sail (the original sail) used 1/2" slides but the new main I bought last spring has much smaller slides. I'm heading for the Florida Keys next week and your story is making me nervous. I have been using my new mainsail since last spring in some heavy winds on the river here without a problem. Was this the first time you used this sail ? Please let us know what FX sails has to say about this problem. Regards, Bob
 
May 4, 2005
4,062
Macgregor 26d Ft Lauderdale, Fl
OMG!

a brand new main, and new undersize slugs? sounds like you may have a case here. Suggest you take lots of photos, and contact the sail mfg. thank God no one was hurt when the mast came down! Greg are you still in town? you could borrow my mast for a week.
 
May 4, 2005
4,062
Macgregor 26d Ft Lauderdale, Fl
OMG!

a brand new main, and new undersize slugs? sounds like you may have a case here. Suggest you take lots of photos, and contact the sail mfg. thank God no one was hurt when the mast came down! Greg are you still in town? you could borrow my mast for a week.
 
May 16, 2007
1,509
Boatless ! 26 Ottawa, Ontario
trying to figure this out

Greg, I'm thinking about this and wondering how it happened. Did the mast break in the middle ? below the spreaders ? or above the shrouds ? I guess if the mast is being pulled back (aft) the slot would be forced closed, helping to keep the undersized slugs in the slot. If the mast was pulled forward then that could bend the mast forward and open the slot perhaps allowing the undersized slugs to pull out. Was the genoa up ? how big was the genoa ? I assume you were on a beam reach ? Any other information about the conditions ? If I had to replace my mast I don't think I would use a heavier mast. I might look at buying an M mast from MacGregor, but using one would depend on what modifications I would have to make to the boat to install an M mast. Do you think your insurance company would pay for a new mast ? One of our club members here in Ottawa had the mast on his Mac 25 broken in a racing accident with another boat, his insurance company replaced his mast with a new one from Dwyer. He was given a slightly heavier mast than the original Mac 25 mast. He has raced the boat for a number of years since then and found it works quite well. He had to drill the mast blank and transfer all the old the rigging over. Because he did that the insurance company ate the deductible, I think it was $500. regards, Bob
 
May 16, 2007
1,509
Boatless ! 26 Ottawa, Ontario
trying to figure this out

Greg, I'm thinking about this and wondering how it happened. Did the mast break in the middle ? below the spreaders ? or above the shrouds ? I guess if the mast is being pulled back (aft) the slot would be forced closed, helping to keep the undersized slugs in the slot. If the mast was pulled forward then that could bend the mast forward and open the slot perhaps allowing the undersized slugs to pull out. Was the genoa up ? how big was the genoa ? I assume you were on a beam reach ? Any other information about the conditions ? If I had to replace my mast I don't think I would use a heavier mast. I might look at buying an M mast from MacGregor, but using one would depend on what modifications I would have to make to the boat to install an M mast. Do you think your insurance company would pay for a new mast ? One of our club members here in Ottawa had the mast on his Mac 25 broken in a racing accident with another boat, his insurance company replaced his mast with a new one from Dwyer. He was given a slightly heavier mast than the original Mac 25 mast. He has raced the boat for a number of years since then and found it works quite well. He had to drill the mast blank and transfer all the old the rigging over. Because he did that the insurance company ate the deductible, I think it was $500. regards, Bob
 
G

Greg

thank god

Hi Bill I know we were very lucky noone got hurt. The mast came down pretty slow so we were sort of ready for it. Thanks for your offer but we already left Florida. Since the weather was so nice we stayed on the reef for a couple of days and pulled the boat out on wednesday when the front came. Can you explain your suggestion in regards to "I could have a case"? What is that the manufacturer can do? Why should the manufacturer care? It is true that they sold me equipment which did not meet specifications. Do you think it is their fault that I had a mishap? Isn't it my responsibility to check all the equipment and consider it safe or unfit? Naturally , since the sail came from a manufacturer I considered it safe (I was wrong) Do you have any suggestion about putting a bigger mast, 3 by 5? Thanks again.
 
G

Greg

thank god

Hi Bill I know we were very lucky noone got hurt. The mast came down pretty slow so we were sort of ready for it. Thanks for your offer but we already left Florida. Since the weather was so nice we stayed on the reef for a couple of days and pulled the boat out on wednesday when the front came. Can you explain your suggestion in regards to "I could have a case"? What is that the manufacturer can do? Why should the manufacturer care? It is true that they sold me equipment which did not meet specifications. Do you think it is their fault that I had a mishap? Isn't it my responsibility to check all the equipment and consider it safe or unfit? Naturally , since the sail came from a manufacturer I considered it safe (I was wrong) Do you have any suggestion about putting a bigger mast, 3 by 5? Thanks again.
 

walt

.
Jun 1, 2007
3,538
Macgregor 26S Hobie TI Ridgway Colorado
M vs C mast

If you buy an M mast, it has the same width as the C mast (3 inch) but is 5.25 inches "deep" rather than 4 inches. Seems like it shouldnt be a problem and stronger but the backstay probably wont do as much to open up the leach as with the stock C mast. If you bought an M mast, I wonder what the additinal cost would be go rotating? (but your new main isnt cut right for the rotating mast.. maybe getting too complicated).. Boat / mast depth / mast width (inches) --------------------------------- 26M / 5.25 / 3 (rotating mast) 26X / 4 / 3 (fixed mast) 26S / 4 / 3 (fixed mast) I have a new main on order for a C so certainly appreciate the heads up on this...
 

walt

.
Jun 1, 2007
3,538
Macgregor 26S Hobie TI Ridgway Colorado
M vs C mast

If you buy an M mast, it has the same width as the C mast (3 inch) but is 5.25 inches "deep" rather than 4 inches. Seems like it shouldnt be a problem and stronger but the backstay probably wont do as much to open up the leach as with the stock C mast. If you bought an M mast, I wonder what the additinal cost would be go rotating? (but your new main isnt cut right for the rotating mast.. maybe getting too complicated).. Boat / mast depth / mast width (inches) --------------------------------- 26M / 5.25 / 3 (rotating mast) 26X / 4 / 3 (fixed mast) 26S / 4 / 3 (fixed mast) I have a new main on order for a C so certainly appreciate the heads up on this...
 
G

Greg

slugs diameter

Hi Walt Thanks for your suggestions. First about the slugs. Now that I measured them the slugs on the new sail are 3/8 plus they are flattened in the middle. This is almost invisible but so essential. In all the only parts that held the sail were the tips of undersized slugs. The slugs I have on my old sail are 1/2". I don't know how I could have missed that. If it goes to the mast. I think I won't be getting an M mast, not necessary. I got hold of a 29' 5" deep mast from a boat of no name. It is very sturdy and it seems its wall is pretty thick. I just wonder if it won't be too heavy for mac 26D. Hope this helps
 
G

Greg

slugs diameter

Hi Walt Thanks for your suggestions. First about the slugs. Now that I measured them the slugs on the new sail are 3/8 plus they are flattened in the middle. This is almost invisible but so essential. In all the only parts that held the sail were the tips of undersized slugs. The slugs I have on my old sail are 1/2". I don't know how I could have missed that. If it goes to the mast. I think I won't be getting an M mast, not necessary. I got hold of a 29' 5" deep mast from a boat of no name. It is very sturdy and it seems its wall is pretty thick. I just wonder if it won't be too heavy for mac 26D. Hope this helps
 
G

Greg

Some answers

Hi Bob. Financial investment is rather long lasting so I don't worry about that. Whatever I bought for this trip will be there for the next one so I don't worry about that. Emotional effect of failure and loss of time are rather priceless. Actually we salvaged everything and nothing was damaged even slightly. We have been sailing/boating on great lakes for some time so I wasn't surprized how calmly we dealed with the situation. It took us over an hour to get the boat ready for motoring. In the mean time we were carried north by the current at least 5 miles. The slides on the sail are 3/8, too small. I used the sail for the first time but I hoisted it once before and the slugs did not come out. Now to answer your other questions. The mast broke right at the spreaders where the bolt holds the spreaders (the weakest point). We used a working jib (10" at the foot) and were sailing north/north east close hauled. The conditions were great (to my standards) 15 K winds, 4'waves, maybe a bit more, little sea spray, really nothing unusual or scary. We were about to reef just to avoid a possible weather helm. I am thinking to do the same thing, just to transfer all the riging to a different mast. No big deal. I will let you know what FX sails say about the incident. Greetings.
 
G

Greg

Some answers

Hi Bob. Financial investment is rather long lasting so I don't worry about that. Whatever I bought for this trip will be there for the next one so I don't worry about that. Emotional effect of failure and loss of time are rather priceless. Actually we salvaged everything and nothing was damaged even slightly. We have been sailing/boating on great lakes for some time so I wasn't surprized how calmly we dealed with the situation. It took us over an hour to get the boat ready for motoring. In the mean time we were carried north by the current at least 5 miles. The slides on the sail are 3/8, too small. I used the sail for the first time but I hoisted it once before and the slugs did not come out. Now to answer your other questions. The mast broke right at the spreaders where the bolt holds the spreaders (the weakest point). We used a working jib (10" at the foot) and were sailing north/north east close hauled. The conditions were great (to my standards) 15 K winds, 4'waves, maybe a bit more, little sea spray, really nothing unusual or scary. We were about to reef just to avoid a possible weather helm. I am thinking to do the same thing, just to transfer all the riging to a different mast. No big deal. I will let you know what FX sails say about the incident. Greetings.
 
May 4, 2005
4,062
Macgregor 26d Ft Lauderdale, Fl
Greg, your case (IMHO)

my position is the sail manufacturer was neglegient in using undersize sail slugs, and the undersize slugs were the cause of the mast failure. The sail mfg should have know the load that would be on the slugs, and known the boat make and model. I would think a call or letter to the sail mfg along with damage photos and a request for say 4k to replace the mast (if thats what it costs). and a agreement to not see further damages would be met faviorably. It sure sounds like larger sail slugs would have avoided this failure, and the sail mfg's cost savings in using the smaller slugs was the cause. the sail mfg can go after the slug mfg is they are under spec, but thats not your problem. the sail caused the failure, and the sail mfg should have known better than use undersize equipment. -just take lots of photos, and start off nice.... you can hire an atty and get mean later. $2-4k seems cheap on a product liabiltiy / neglegence issue (IMHO, of course) best of luck!
 
May 4, 2005
4,062
Macgregor 26d Ft Lauderdale, Fl
Greg, your case (IMHO)

my position is the sail manufacturer was neglegient in using undersize sail slugs, and the undersize slugs were the cause of the mast failure. The sail mfg should have know the load that would be on the slugs, and known the boat make and model. I would think a call or letter to the sail mfg along with damage photos and a request for say 4k to replace the mast (if thats what it costs). and a agreement to not see further damages would be met faviorably. It sure sounds like larger sail slugs would have avoided this failure, and the sail mfg's cost savings in using the smaller slugs was the cause. the sail mfg can go after the slug mfg is they are under spec, but thats not your problem. the sail caused the failure, and the sail mfg should have known better than use undersize equipment. -just take lots of photos, and start off nice.... you can hire an atty and get mean later. $2-4k seems cheap on a product liabiltiy / neglegence issue (IMHO, of course) best of luck!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.