Replacement of Hunter Legend 45 keel bolts

KD3PC · Jul 11, 2014

Search here, it has been done. The easy way and the hard way. It is not a trivial task or inexpensive if you have some one else do it for you.

Hard way - block the boat, dig hole from beneath keel to allow it to drop enough to work on it. Hope that PO did not use snot of satan (3M 5200) to "seal" it. IF he did, then you have about a week of prying, cutting, heating, cussing, drinking, etc to get the keel to separate from the boat. Hopefully it drops enough that you can remove/replace the bolts. Sometimes you can other times you need to cut new slots for j-bolts, or sister in the new bolts, etc. Then fair and refair the surfaces, jack up the keel and replace the washers and nuts in the bilge, fair the boat, paint bottom and good to go.

Your keel is most likely not steel. It may be iron, but not steel. Were it me, I would need a second and third opinion such that I am not "thinking of replacing" keel boats, but have a compelling reason to do so. I don't see the usual signs of failed/failing keel bolts...what I see is fairing around the keel and hull joint. What do the washers and nuts in the bilge look like? While there in the bilge, what do the studs look like?

Oh I forgot the easy way...have the yard do it. The have labor, travel lift, jacks and experience, or should have.

All the best,

rufus1138 · Jul 11, 2014

CaptainMacBudgie said:
Thanks KD3PC.

I've done 4 transatlantic crossings. It's just after what happened to the Cheeky Rafiki, I'm a bit cautious.

It's not my boat (yet). I will get an opinion during the survey.

You didn't say - but presuming I now have 4 tons of keel sitting in a pit under my boat... how do I get it back on again

+1 on the cheeky rafiki thing, i know im not a big boat owner but after seeing that i would run, not walk from this situation, big boats are for big boys with big money, saving a few bucks on a fixer upper is not the way to go here. not after what we saw with rafiki.

KD3PC · Jul 11, 2014

CaptainMacBudgie said:
You didn't say - but presuming I now have 4 tons of keel sitting in a pit under my boat... how do I get it back on again

there is the real work....the two I have been involved with, one we used 4x4 oak, steel beam pieces and old fashioned bottle jacks - 4 inches at a time. We had timber to go in the hole before we dropped the keel, to jack against and an old guy rigger who had moved houses using similar "technology". The cost was minimal, we were all volunteers....and it took almost a week of long days to drop the keel, prep it and the hull and then put it all back.

the second one, we did it the smart way. We rented the travel lift for a half day, had them pick up the boat and set her back down on the prepared keel. Cost was $250 for the travel lift, but less than a day, no one worried, and actually pretty easy. Downside, dock mates were disappointed that we no longer provided great entertainment value.

I was told that a lot of money changed hands on the first one, both for finishing and for no one getting hurt. Good experience, though.

artboas · Jul 12, 2014

Not sure what you're trying to do

CaptainMacBudgie said:
The Legend 45 I am looking at buying has a 6 inch stain/mark in the anti foul right around the keel (above and below the keel joint). The boat has been standing on its keel on the hard for at least 4 years.

View attachment 78143

I am thinking of replacing the keel bolts. Has anyone any experience of this. Can anyone tell me what the keel is made of (steel, encapsulated or lead).

Thanks
Captain Mac

This boat will have a lead keel. 99% sure.
Hunter was one of the last companies to still use lead keels.
The keel bolts are stainless rods which are set into the molten lead when it's cast.
Not sure how you would ever replace these, and don't think there is a valid reason to do so.
If you want to drop your keel & re-bed it, that's a different matter.
Is there water leaking into the hull??

dehler25 · Aug 1, 2014

Re: Not sure what you're trying to do

Spot on! Lots of lead keels on the 45's the J bolts are cast in, but they can be cut off and a furrow cut in to allow a coupling with new rod to be loaded on, if there is corrosion it will only be at the surface and it beats the hell out of the other options. Lars Bergstrom, the "B" in B&R rigs changed keels on full blown race boats using the technique. It is possible there would be no corrosion or one replacement. If it is pulled and inspected it removes the nagging question when the weather is up.

artboas · Aug 3, 2014

I'm dubious

dehler25 said:
Spot on! Lots of lead keels on the 45's the J bolts are cast in, but they can be cut off and a furrow cut in to allow a coupling with new rod to be loaded on, if there is corrosion it will only be at the surface and it beats the hell out of the other options. Lars Bergstrom, the "B" in B&R rigs changed keels on full blown race boats using the technique. It is possible there would be no corrosion or one replacement. If it is pulled and inspected it removes the nagging question when the weather is up.

The bolts are pretty beefy stainless. While I have the luxury of being in fresh water, I've sailed a lot in salt.
With good stainless bolts, I just can't see them corroding out.
I gather you are looking at using a threaded coupling if you plan on replacing these. I'm just concerned it will be a brittle connection.
Allow me to explain:
Years ago, I helped replace the toerail on a cal 48. About 100 bolts going through the deck, and they were all too long.
Our goal was to put on a fender washer, lock washer, nut, and acorn nut.
As the hull thickness varied, etcetera, the bolts were not all consistent excess thread, if you get my drift.
So, this looked like 2 weeks with a hacksaw, and then fixing the thread.
Then someone showed me the BEST TRICK IN THE UNIVERSE.
To shorten stainless fasteners, (this works up to 1/2"), do the following.
Install the bolt
Put on a flat washer,
Then lock washer
And a nut. If you want the thread left longer, put on 1 or more nuts.
Make sure the nuts are on real tight.
Then, take a pair of really good quality vice grips.
Clamp them securely into the thread.
Now give it a sharp deflection one way,
Then back the other. On the third wiggle, the excess thread snaps clean off, and no thread damage.
This works incredibly well. The secret is that stainless is very brittle, and will fracture easily.
So, getting back to your keel bolts.
I'm concerned that a coupling won't be supported around itself as the previously lead encapsulated bolts are.
Perhaps you want to think about this