Replacement Head Catalina 27

Stu Jackson · Mar 3, 2009

Oh contrare

They still make them. See: http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...=true&storeNum=11&subdeptNum=209&classNum=715

In lieu of buying the preferred Raritan PHII or PHC, we've chosen to replace the Head Mate every few years. I know, I know, there's a two year payback on my investment, but I don't wanna mess with the hoses. My boat, my choice.

Peggie Hall HeadMistress · Mar 3, 2009

Wilcox-Crittenden is not out of business

Their website is here: http://www.wilcoxcrittenden.com/sanitation.asp?bid=

Your toilet is a HeadMate, which W-C still sells...and may or may not be original. Catalina has used Jabsco manual heads for a number of years...not sure if they ever used W-C. Depending on its age and its symptoms it may be worn out (average lifespan of compact toilet is only 7-9 years, less for Jabsco), or it may only need a rebuild kit and lubrication. The HeadMate is a pretty decent compact toilet that--depending on its age and symptoms--can be worth the price of a rebuild kit. Or there may be problems elsewhere in the system too.

So what ARE its symptoms?

If it does need replacement, whether a toilet will be durable, reliable and trouble-free for years of use is a lot more important than which toilet is the easiest to install. That yours will only see "light duty" can actually result in more problems than constant heavy use 'cuz seals, o-rings etc fail faster when they spend more time sitting and drying out than when they're used and lubricated a lot...kinda like our own bodies--use it or lose it.

You're gonna have to learn how to maintain your toilet, hoses and holding tank...99% of all problems can be traced back to owner neglect or error. So you might want to check out the link in my signature...it'll take you to a comprehensive "marine toilets and holding tanks 101" manual that help you prevent problems instead of fixing 'em.

sailingdog · Mar 3, 2009

Get a Raritan PH II or PHC head.

Stu Jackson · Mar 3, 2009

WC and Catalina

Peggie Hall-HeadMistress said:
Your toilet is a HeadMate, which W-C still sells...and may or may not be original. Catalina has used Jabsco manual heads for a number of years...not sure if they ever used W-C.

On our C34s, they used to use Jabsco (gag me!) but seemed to have moved to WC at least on a friend's 2005 C34. Don't know what they're using now. All of my friends with older C34s have the dreaded Js and hate them. I think my PO "upgraded" to the WC. As I've previously noted in other discussions, I agree with you that it's somewhere between the stinkers (J and G) and the PHCs.

Peggie Hall HeadMistress · Mar 3, 2009

Thanks Stu...

So his toilet may be a LOT newer than we thought...and depending on the symptoms, may not need much. I just need to know exactly what he means by "does not work"...won't bring in flush water, won't discharge...pump is so stiff he can't pump it...can't switch from wet to dry or vice versa...whatever...

So talk to me Snuffy!

Stu Jackson · Mar 3, 2009

I agree, it sure would help if folks read this

reminder found here: http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=101369

Asking Questions:

When posting a question try to proof read it from the perspective of someone who may be trying to answer it for you. It is very important to include as much information as you can possibly supply so that other forum members have what they need to properly answer your question. Some ideas of what to include; boat brand, length or model, deep or fin keel, what model engine/transmission, sailing grounds etc. etc..

If you are asking a question about something broken please also let us know what, if any, trouble shooting steps you’ve already taken. For example, if your engine is over heating let us know that you replaced the injection elbow last fall and that you’ve already replaced the thermostat. Again, the more info the better.

jimg · Mar 3, 2009

I know there are probably better quality marine toilets out there, but when I got my C27 9 years ago I replaced the disgusting thing that was in there with a new Jabsco toilet (for about $130 if I remember), which still works just fine thank you very much. I have done nothing in the way of maintenance other than use silicone grease on the pump about once a year. It is your money and your boat of course, but I'm just telling you my actual experience.

Peggie Hall HeadMistress · Mar 3, 2009

Weeellllll Snuffy...

If the boat was surveyed out of the water, that could explain why the surveyor said "inoperable"...'cuz unless it's in the water, it can't bring in any flush water. Or he considered it too grimy to try it. Or maybe the intake seacock is frozen shut. So I suggest you ask him/her what (s)he meant.

Btw...did you hire the surveyor or accept the seller's survey?

If it was just 'cuz it was out of the water, all you need to do to try it is disconnect the intake line from the thru-hull and stick it in a bucket of water. Flush the toilet. And grimy/nasty is easy to fix with a power washer and detergent.

There is plenty to recommend a nice new shiny one...I'm just trying to save you some money you may not need to spend...'cuz if the toilet is that nasty, there have to be other things in bad condition that you're gonna have to spend money on. So let's take this one step at time...try the toilet, then get back to me with what you find. If it turns out to be more trouble than it's worth to make it shiny and working again, we can pick out a good replacement.

Stu Jackson · Mar 3, 2009

Another thought

A friend wrote this many years ago:

My experience has been that a close observation of the seller and those things surrounding them can often give a clue as to the seller's approach to care & maintenance in general. Rare is the person who lets their car stay dirty, with leaking oil, grating brakes, etc., while meticulously caring for and maintaining their diesel engine & fiberglass boat.

Hope that was the ONLY dirty thing on the boat. Good luck.

Peggie Hall HeadMistress · Mar 5, 2009

For not much more $$ than a new Headmate...

You can upgrade to a Raritan PHC, which has the same pump as the PH II http://www.raritaneng.com/products/toilets/manual/ph_2.html but on a compact base and with a shorter handle, to fit in the same space as a compact.

The PH II and PHC use the same bowl as your HeadMate. So all you need to buy is the pump and base (part # PHCLBA). You'd prob'ly have to clean up the bowl, but you'll save about $!00 compared to the price of a complete PHC and save a BUNCH in shipping 'cuz bowls are heavy!

The PH II has been rated the best toilet < $500 for at least a couple of decades...average lifespan is about 20 years with just minimal maintenance. A lot of others here have bought 'em will tell you they LOVE it!

Almost all toilets use a bowl that has a 4-bolt mounting pattern, so anyone interested in upgrading to the full size PH II can also do so by buying only the "lower base assembly (part # PHIILBA). The sbo.com chandlery's price for it is $269...the PHCLBA is a bit less.

Otoh, Snuffy...a new HeadMate would be a "plug and play" drop in that should fit the same mounting bolt pattern...but you'd be settling for a much lower quality toilet to save very little money and elbow grease. Whichever toilet you choose, PLEASE read and follow the installation instructions, especially the instructions pertaining to a vented loop in the intake.

Btw...you said the hoses are old. Old hoses become very hard, dry and brittle...prone to cracking, leaking and even slipping off fittings. You'd be VERY wise replace 'em when you replace the toilet. Yes, I know you want to minimize the amount of work needed to get the boat ready to enjoy on the water...but a little extra work now will prevent a lot more down time and expense for repairs later. Prevention is always cheaper and easier than cure.

atom · Mar 5, 2009

Re: For not much more $$ than a new Headmate...

Peggie,
Wow, thanks for that bit of information.

The PH II and PHC use the same bowl as your HeadMate. So all you need to buy is the pump and base (part # PHCLBA). You'd prob'ly have to clean up the bowl, but you'll save about $!00 compared to the price of a complete PHC and save a BUNCH in shipping 'cuz bowls are heavy!

I only wish I had known this two months ago when I was standing in Raritan's Fort Lauderdale shop, agonizing over the price of a new PHC, and how it will fit into the backseat of the rental car.
My Catalina 310 still has the original head, a WC headmate. So if I don't mind the work, you're saying that I can just swap the base and pump.
Amazing!
Need to do some shopping now. You truly are the HeadMistress.
Thank you.

sailingdog · Mar 5, 2009

Peggie—

That is great to know, since I have a headmate unit on my boat and was thinking of upgrading to the Raritan PHC at some point in the future.

Head Master18695 · Mar 5, 2009

Re: For not much more $$ than a new Headmate...

Atom, 2 months ago Raritan didn't offer the PHC lower base assembly. It had been only available as a complete toilet. The PHC lower base unit was just (very) recently added as a saleable product - at Peggie's suggestion. Don't be unhappy with Raritan's guys in Ft. Lauderdale, because it wasn't available at that time. But now it is, so hopefully others won't have to deal with that large, bulky box should they choose to pick it up in person.

atom · Mar 5, 2009

Re: For not much more $$ than a new Headmate...

Head Master,
Thanks need to go to Peggie for suggesting that they sell just the base unit.
For the record Raritan's guys in Ft. Lauderdale were great, they even offered to build a PHC while I waited.
I did not buy a PHC at the time, partially due to the need to carry it around for a few days in a compact rental.
Being the tightwad that I am, the opportunity to only buy the base unit and swap out the bowl, could make my day.

Shooter II · Apr 7, 2009

Joe Snuffy said:
Peggie, thanks so much for all of the good advice. I took the head apart this weekend. The bowl cleaned up like new. I have decided to go with the Raritan PHC, but only the base/pump. You stated that the part numer is PCHLBA. I have looked online with several vendors, but can't find just the base/pump, but looking at the other posts, this is a brand-new option. Any suggestions as to what vendor will carry this option? I have looked at SBO,West, Defender, and Hamilton, but the base/pump is not listed as an option.
Cheers

Daggone! Wouldn't you know!
I, too, have a WC Headmate. My boat, '83 H31 is old and so is the head (and me). I decided that I would replace the old toilet with "like for like" to keep it simple and the bolt pattern would be the same. Also, the price of replacement was in the portapottie range ($149). I figured, if I got 7-10 yrs, I was doing great. My searches caused me to call Thetford, the manufacturer, today. They told me they discontinued the model in January. My local Westmarine located one in the "in-store inventory" for the chain. (something like 80 left) The price was reduced by I pay shipping to the store of $15.00. I still saved a nice bit. Hope to have it by the weekend. Wish I'd known about the Raritan parts that would fit without have to drill new mounting holes. Oh well...
At least I'll have a new head and hoses and maybe get rid of some stink. I know my wife sure hopes so.
After having the boat for almost a year, I'm growing rather fond of her (the boat. been fond of the wife for a few years more than that).

Replacement Head Catalina 27

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