I want to replace my halyards this year, does someone have them ready made for my 89 h23 , ? thanks as usual , Mike
replacement halylards
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Most any marine store.
Mike: Most any store has ready made halyards. They usually come in pre-defined lengths (longer than most of us need). They usually discount the price on the total package (line, head shackle and splice). You want to be sure that you do NOT use a larger diameter line than what is appropriate for your boat. Even it if fits the sheaves, it can cause additional friction. If you have any doubts, contact Hunter Marine and ask them for the correct measurements.
Mike: Most any store has ready made halyards. They usually come in pre-defined lengths (longer than most of us need). They usually discount the price on the total package (line, head shackle and splice). You want to be sure that you do NOT use a larger diameter line than what is appropriate for your boat. Even it if fits the sheaves, it can cause additional friction. If you have any doubts, contact Hunter Marine and ask them for the correct measurements.
Save money...buy the raw line
Why pay more for a shackle (you already have one) and an eye splice when you can do just as well by yourself? Buy twice as much low-stretch polyester line as the run to the masthead sheave and back plus some slack for handling (six to eight feet), plus ten feet extra (more on this later). With the halyard shackle on deck, splice the old and new lines together at the bitter end of the old line. I sewed mine together, but the paper clip trick is supposed to work just as well. Now pull on the old line and it will hoist the new line up the mast, over the sheave and back to the deck. Cut the shackle off the old line and tie the new line on with a buntline hitch (see Chapman's or any book on knots). This is a compact but secure knot that won't let go (it has to be cut off). Here's why you need the extra 15 feet of length...the halyard will wear at the point where it goes over the sheave when the sail is hoisted. When it starts to show signs of wear (you'll see it when the sail is lowered) cut two feet off the shackle end and re-tie the knot. You now have a halyard with no wear, essentially a new halyard. If you didn't have the extra length, you'd have to replace the entire halyard. You'll also lose the eye splice The first time you do this. Good luck. Peter H23 "Raven"
Why pay more for a shackle (you already have one) and an eye splice when you can do just as well by yourself? Buy twice as much low-stretch polyester line as the run to the masthead sheave and back plus some slack for handling (six to eight feet), plus ten feet extra (more on this later). With the halyard shackle on deck, splice the old and new lines together at the bitter end of the old line. I sewed mine together, but the paper clip trick is supposed to work just as well. Now pull on the old line and it will hoist the new line up the mast, over the sheave and back to the deck. Cut the shackle off the old line and tie the new line on with a buntline hitch (see Chapman's or any book on knots). This is a compact but secure knot that won't let go (it has to be cut off). Here's why you need the extra 15 feet of length...the halyard will wear at the point where it goes over the sheave when the sail is hoisted. When it starts to show signs of wear (you'll see it when the sail is lowered) cut two feet off the shackle end and re-tie the knot. You now have a halyard with no wear, essentially a new halyard. If you didn't have the extra length, you'd have to replace the entire halyard. You'll also lose the eye splice The first time you do this. Good luck. Peter H23 "Raven"
knots weaken the line.
Peter: While a knot is a great way to save money it is weaker than a splice. Some knots reduce the line strength by up to 80%. There was a good article in Practical Sailor on this subject in the last 2 years. A better option (if you don't want to purchase a new shackle) is to cut it off and send it to your line supplier. The other option is to do it yourself (just not my thing).
Peter: While a knot is a great way to save money it is weaker than a splice. Some knots reduce the line strength by up to 80%. There was a good article in Practical Sailor on this subject in the last 2 years. A better option (if you don't want to purchase a new shackle) is to cut it off and send it to your line supplier. The other option is to do it yourself (just not my thing).
Why I prefer a knot instead of a splice
Sending the shackle off to the line supplier is a good idea, but that would have to be done every time I shorten the halyard, and the halyard would have to unrove to go to the rigger as well. The two feet I cut off every couple of years includes the knot. Besides, the buntline hitch is supposed to be a pretty good knot for this particular application. Peter H23 "Raven"
Sending the shackle off to the line supplier is a good idea, but that would have to be done every time I shorten the halyard, and the halyard would have to unrove to go to the rigger as well. The two feet I cut off every couple of years includes the knot. Besides, the buntline hitch is supposed to be a pretty good knot for this particular application. Peter H23 "Raven"
Why do you cut it every couple of years?
Peter: We have our boat in the water year round and have only change the halyard once (13 years old) in 16 years. I must assume that the reason that you need to cut off the line is because you are using a knot instead of a splice. You are not the first person that I know that uses knots. I never thought much about it until I read the Practical Sailor Article.
Peter: We have our boat in the water year round and have only change the halyard once (13 years old) in 16 years. I must assume that the reason that you need to cut off the line is because you are using a knot instead of a splice. You are not the first person that I know that uses knots. I never thought much about it until I read the Practical Sailor Article.
K
Kevin Keen
Marlinespike Seamanship: To Knot or Not
Guys and Gals: A bowline, which is one of the stronger knots, only retains 67-75% of the original strength of the line (according to Chapman's, p. 283). No figure given for the buntline hitch, but p. 285 notes that since this hitch is its own stopper knot, it won't jam in a block as an eye splice might. The strongest of the knots and splices is the eye splice which retains 90% of the original strength of the line. Use a metal thimble with the eye splice and don't forget to seize with beeswaxed dacron small stuff. Oh, and the halyards on my 1985 are uncut originals. I'm thinking of replacing them because of the UV damage after all these years. Any suggestions for rope type and diameter. I'll go with the length recommendations already given in this article thread. - Kevin.
Guys and Gals: A bowline, which is one of the stronger knots, only retains 67-75% of the original strength of the line (according to Chapman's, p. 283). No figure given for the buntline hitch, but p. 285 notes that since this hitch is its own stopper knot, it won't jam in a block as an eye splice might. The strongest of the knots and splices is the eye splice which retains 90% of the original strength of the line. Use a metal thimble with the eye splice and don't forget to seize with beeswaxed dacron small stuff. Oh, and the halyards on my 1985 are uncut originals. I'm thinking of replacing them because of the UV damage after all these years. Any suggestions for rope type and diameter. I'll go with the length recommendations already given in this article thread. - Kevin.
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Rick Webb
Is Strength Really an Issue?
Couldn't we use a much smaller diameter line but do not because the larger one is easier to handle?
Couldn't we use a much smaller diameter line but do not because the larger one is easier to handle?
Halyards - for Steve and everybody else
My halyards seem to wear (chafe) the most at the upper sheave (just inside the mast a few inches from the shackle end. Because the line turns 180 degrees on the sheave, tensile stress is induced on the outside of the curve. This stress is in addition to the tensile stress that's already in the line due to halyard tension. More iportantly, the extra stress is concentrated right on that little section of line on the sheave itself...about three inches total. The halyard also saws back and forth a bit on the sheave as the jib pumps the forestay in gusts or as the boat moves through waves. The line is supposed to turn on the sheave, but when was the last time you checked your sheaves to make sure they were turning as freely as they should? Also, most sheaves won't turn as easily when they're under load from a tensioned halyard. So that's why I cut off a foot or so every couple of years. I first used this method with the jib sheets then extended it to the mainsheet and halyards. The $2 worth of line I discard is a small price to pay for not breaking any lines...and you know when lines break, right? Under the wost conditions, when they are loaded the most. As far as line size, 5/16" is strong enough but 3/8" is easier on the hands. Sta-Set, Sta-SetX or any low-stretch polyester double-braid will work fine. As Kevin mentioned, the buntline hitch won't jam in the halyard exit like an eye splice, it is more compact than a bowline and I find it easy to tie. I also color-coded my lines; white with blue flecks for the jib halyard, white with red flecks for the main halyard. Jib sheets are solid blue, mainsheet is solid white. Vang and backstay adjuster are solid red, but they're at opposite ends of the cockpit. It helps a lot when sailing with inexperienced guests. Peter H23 "Raven"
My halyards seem to wear (chafe) the most at the upper sheave (just inside the mast a few inches from the shackle end. Because the line turns 180 degrees on the sheave, tensile stress is induced on the outside of the curve. This stress is in addition to the tensile stress that's already in the line due to halyard tension. More iportantly, the extra stress is concentrated right on that little section of line on the sheave itself...about three inches total. The halyard also saws back and forth a bit on the sheave as the jib pumps the forestay in gusts or as the boat moves through waves. The line is supposed to turn on the sheave, but when was the last time you checked your sheaves to make sure they were turning as freely as they should? Also, most sheaves won't turn as easily when they're under load from a tensioned halyard. So that's why I cut off a foot or so every couple of years. I first used this method with the jib sheets then extended it to the mainsheet and halyards. The $2 worth of line I discard is a small price to pay for not breaking any lines...and you know when lines break, right? Under the wost conditions, when they are loaded the most. As far as line size, 5/16" is strong enough but 3/8" is easier on the hands. Sta-Set, Sta-SetX or any low-stretch polyester double-braid will work fine. As Kevin mentioned, the buntline hitch won't jam in the halyard exit like an eye splice, it is more compact than a bowline and I find it easy to tie. I also color-coded my lines; white with blue flecks for the jib halyard, white with red flecks for the main halyard. Jib sheets are solid blue, mainsheet is solid white. Vang and backstay adjuster are solid red, but they're at opposite ends of the cockpit. It helps a lot when sailing with inexperienced guests. Peter H23 "Raven"
K
Kevin Keen
Strength and Line Diameter
In response to Rick: I am considering the diameter issue too. With the modern cores, like Spectra, Technora, or Vectran, it is possible to obtain a halyard of smaller diameter and weight that is stronger than Dacron (polyester) double braid. Less weight aloft is good for stability. Also these new fibers will not absorb water. Anyone have an experience in this regard? - Kevin
In response to Rick: I am considering the diameter issue too. With the modern cores, like Spectra, Technora, or Vectran, it is possible to obtain a halyard of smaller diameter and weight that is stronger than Dacron (polyester) double braid. Less weight aloft is good for stability. Also these new fibers will not absorb water. Anyone have an experience in this regard? - Kevin
Halyards
Thanks for all of the posts, I talked to my rigger , last year he replaced my uppers , this year doing lowers, next year , fore and back stays, I have a lot of faith in him and he asked why I wanted to replace halyards, I told him just thought it was time, he suggeted halyards were good for up to 20 years, , he makes his living selling this stuff and talked me out of buying, , for what it is worth, Mike
Thanks for all of the posts, I talked to my rigger , last year he replaced my uppers , this year doing lowers, next year , fore and back stays, I have a lot of faith in him and he asked why I wanted to replace halyards, I told him just thought it was time, he suggeted halyards were good for up to 20 years, , he makes his living selling this stuff and talked me out of buying, , for what it is worth, Mike
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