Replace section of G4 anchor chain

Rick486 · Aug 28, 2023

This seems to me like a common sense thing. You have 100 ft of chain of unknown age. 60 ft is bad. So why are we discussing ways of saving 40 ft of unknown age chain? Why aren't we instead discussing 100 ft of new chain? :facepalm:

Roland5048 · Aug 28, 2023

I'm with @Rick486 on this one. Cheap insurance. Penny wise and dollar foolish isn't worth the loss of your boat.

shemandr · Aug 28, 2023

There are connection links. You'd have to check the specs to see how much strength they are rated for - you know, chain...weak...link. Would would also have to see if the connector will go thru your windlass. Note for the Sea Fit, it specifies doesn't play nice with windlasses. If I were to do this I would try to find someone to weld a link.

Connecting Links | West Marine

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Hayden Watson · Aug 28, 2023

The rode has spent most of its life in the locker. 3-strand rope is easy to splice even when old as long as the rope is reasonably supple. When I replaced my chain recently, I reused the nylon but swapped it end-for-end. That way the unused end was in the splice, and I had no problems.

jssailem · Aug 28, 2023

The chain decision is tough. It lasts longer than couple of years. Somewhat dependent on how often you anchor, and if you choose to anchor in storm conditions. 100 ft at $500 is $100 over 5 years. That would be a couple of lattes a month for the piece of mind that your boat is secure and not dependent on the weakest link in a chain of unknown age.

The with 180ft of rode, @Hayden Watson's flip the end strategy is spot on.

Mark Maulden · Aug 28, 2023

When I need chain, I make the trip to Washington Chain in SEA. Best prices and excellent chain..

Ralph Johnstone · Aug 28, 2023

skunther said:
I've been advised I can replace the bad section with new chain via a "connecting link",

From all the connecting links you can find in a Google search :

................ it looks like the sole concern is to maintain the strength of the original links but not fit through a windlass gypsy. I can't see how it can be done unless your were to weld in a replacement link with exactly the same dimensions as the other links. Such a skilled welder would likely cost you several times the cost of a new 100' length of chain.

I think your biggest problem here is your advisers. They sound as if they're affiliated with the group of stumblebums who wander up and down our docks dispensing their pearls of wisdom to anyone who isn't fast enough to get out of earshot.

skunther said:
Though the 180’ of 9/16 3 strand anchor line I have looks fine, I’ve been advised that if I am replacing the entire chain, I should replace the rope as well instead of trying to splice the old rope to new chain.

Huboy, depends on the condition of the nylon rode. There go those advisers again. If it looks good to you, it most likely is. I like @Hayden Watson 's idea in post #6.

dLj · Aug 29, 2023

There are two fundamental problems with "just welding G4 chain" as a connector.

1) the structural integrity of the welded link.
2) the destruction of the hot dipped galvanizing creating a corrosion problem.

1) - G4 is a high strength carbon steel. In order to weld it correctly, you would have to develop a weld procedure requiring highly controlled weld parameters and to then mechanically test those resultant welds until you found the weld parameters that produced predictable output. The cost of doing this work would be far more than the cost of your chain replacement.

2) - Hot dipped galvanizing will be destroyed in the region of your weld. There is no method to repair/restore hot dipped galvanizing other then sending it to get re-hot dipped galvanized.

In my opinion, it's a fools game to go that route.

dj

dLj · Aug 29, 2023

skunther said:
I’ve also run across plenty of threads indicating newer chain isn’t lasting more than a couple years before getting fairly corroded. If we’re talking about replacing the entire rode every few years, ($500 of chain and $200 of rope before tax), it seems this could get expensive quickly. Replacing just over half the chain would cost $300, which is $400 less than replacing the whole shebang. I’d hardly call that pennies, especially if it has to be done every few years.

While I don't for certain know why the complaints of chain not lasting, I may have some insights.

With the increased EPA requirements, many hot dipped galvanizers stopped using that process and went to a newly developed process called mechanical galvanizing. Marketing folk loved to make the claim that's it's "as good as" or "just like" hot dipped galvanizing. Unfortunately, that is not technically correct, especially in anchor chain applications.

Mechanically galvanized chain is less expensive to produce so it costs less. The availability of actual hot dipped galvanized has greatly decreased so my guess is those complaining chain doesn't "last like it used to" we're comparing mechanically galvanized chain to what should have been hot dipped galvanized chain. Indeed, in that case the observation is correct.

Make sure you get hot dipped galvanized chain.

Looking at your current chain, I'd recommend replacing the entire 100 feet with bonafide hot dipped galvanized chain.

dj

CrispyCringle · Aug 29, 2023

I was researching the possibility of adding chain and getting rid of my chain/rope rode setup. Good connecting links are good for about 1900 lb WL. G4 5/16 is good for about 3900 lb WL. Those are just ball park numbers, it will depend on brand. Many people use connecting links without issue. But I find that cutting the working load in half is not worth it to me.

sailme88 · Aug 29, 2023

Electrolysis not withstanding, I'd go with a SS connecting link.. The weak link ( pun intended) are the capture pins of the connectors.. the 5/16 link is basically cut in half to create the ability to open, capture and pin shut. But the pins are the weak point. Looking at your old chain, imaging how long the thin pins might last.. at least with SS you can fend off some of the oxidation process... yes dis-similar metals..BUT !

E-Rigging.com has 5/16 SS convectors for $4.69 ea

Captain Larry-DH · Aug 29, 2023

shemandr said:
There are connection links. You'd have to check the specs to see how much strength they are rated for - you know, chain...weak...link. Would would also have to see if the connector will go thru your windlass. Note for the Sea Fit, it specifies doesn't play nice with windlasses. If I were to do this I would try to find someone to weld a link.

Connecting Links | West Marine

Check out our Connecting Links and more from West Marine!

www.westmarine.com

If buying connecting links IMHO the best choice is Crosby Missing Link G335 sized for your chain. It’s high quality and a trustworthy brand. I would not trust WestMarine Seafit brand chain or connectors (of unknown original manufacture). I used one to add chain to the back of my current setup. It will go through the windlass without issue, and must be peened for full rated strength, but there is some loos of strength compared with G4 chain.
In my case, I added 125’ of 3/8” G4 on the back of 175‘ of 3/8” G4. In most cases I never use the entire first shot of chain.
I‘m with @Rick486 on this one - IMHO the OP should replace all 100’, as the good 40’ of 5/16 isn’t worth that much. It could be upcycled as rode on a rope/chain secondary, or sold or donated.

dLj · Aug 29, 2023

sailme88 said:
Electrolysis not withstanding, I'd go with a SS connecting link.. The weak link ( pun intended) are the capture pins of the connectors.. the 5/16 link is basically cut in half to create the ability to open, capture and pin shut. But the pins are the weak point. Looking at your old chain, imaging how long the thin pins might last.. at least with SS you can fend off some of the oxidation process... yes dis-similar metals..BUT !

E-Rigging.com has 5/16 SS convectors for $4.69 ea

Dissimilar metals corrosion would not be my concern here but rather the notable decrease in link strength it would represent along with the different wear characteristics between the two chains.

Really, if cost is the main driver, then simply buy 60 feet of replacement chain and discard the old chain. It's a rode/chain anchor system anyway. I have two anchor systems on my boat, an all chain system and a chain/rode system. My chain/rode system uses 50 feet of chain with 200 feet of rode. There is nothing particularly magical about running 100 feet of chain over 60 feet. Keeping your inspection points to a minimum in my opinion would be preferred. With the rode/chain you have the connection of chain to anchor, connection of chain to rode. And of course you have general state of both chain and rode. Why add in an additional point through a weak link?

Just my 2 cents...

dj

Ralph Johnstone · Aug 29, 2023

With everyone so concerned about the addition of a weaker connecting link to a chain rode, has anyone ever come across any testing to failure reports of a chain to nylon rope connection, otherwise known as a crown splice ?

Rope manufacturer's always advise us not to bend a rope around a tight radius in an eye, but include a thimble :

And then then they turn around and teach us how to do this :

It's enough to drive you to a 100% chain rode

.

Rich Stidger · Aug 29, 2023

I will wade into this snake pit with my 2 cents of opinion.

I have always used ACCO brand G4 5/16" chain for 25 years. I've never had a problem and I pretty much anchor exclusively in salt water in the northeast. I have a Simpson Lawrence windlass with the correct sized gypsy for 5/16" G4 chain.

In most anchoring locations I only use 120-130 feet of chain. I have a total of 175 feet and no rope rode. My experience is that the chain will last 5-7 years before the corrosion level dictates replacement. So now I have 40 feet of chain that is in good shape, and 135 feet that need replacement.

I buy a half barrel of 5/16" G4 (275') and cut it in half giving me two pieces that are 135 feet each- one to use now and one to use 6 years from now. I use a Crosby G-335 connecting link to join the new 135' with the barely used 40'. The pins are peened over carefully. I believe that the size of the Crosby link is 3/8", or one size greater than the chain. The working load of this Crosby G-335 link is 2750#. The working load of ACCO 5/16" G4 is 3900#.

So in using the Crosby link, I am loosing 1150# of working load. I am OK with this reduction. YMMV.

But let me ask-
1- If you use a rope to chain splice, what is the working load of that splice?
2- What is the real maximum load you could expect from wind and waves on your particular boat in a storm condition? If anyone has data from a study on this I would be interested to see it.
3- At what load do cleats on your boat fail?

Now I do inspect the connecting link whenever I see it. And it runs through my gypsy just fine.

tfox2069 · Aug 29, 2023

When adding a connecting link, there's one issue I didn't see discussed - sorry if I missed it: The connecting link (and thimble) may not run through your gypsy.

I added a length of chain to an older boat I once owned when the 25 feet of chain proved not enough to reliably hold in some of the thunderstorms we get on the Chesapeake Bay. A friend gave me 50 feet of chain he was looking to get out of his garage, which I wanted to add to the existing chain. I looked at commercial connectors, and none would work through my gypsy, so I found a local welder who said he could weld the chain together. I paid him a small sum and he knocked it out in short order. I would inspect that particular link from time to time and never saw any significant corrosion or any cracking or separation of the weld. I did wire brush that link and spray it with cold galvanizing spray paint to help reduce corrosion, though I'm not sure how long that lasted. I do realize it might have failed under strain without giving an outward sign. But that chain only got into the brackish water of mid-bay probably 15 nights a year and sat in the chain locker the rest of the time. It held through some pretty sporty squalls just fine for years after, and I sold the boat with the welded chain still in use and looking fine.

I probably could have just cut off the old 25 feet and used the "new" 50 feet in its place, and spliced it to the rode. That might have been the smartest thing to do (very practical thought @dLj ), but like the OP I was hoping to have all the chain on hand whenever I anchored. If I were anchoring in high risk places a lot I probably wouldn't accept the risk of a known "weak link", but a captain needs to make that call.

Replace section of G4 anchor chain

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SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John

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