Greetings, I’m aboard a hunter 460 and wish to replace the grunert single 110v compressor pushing fridge and separate freezer holding plate system with twin 12 v systems. Any positive testimonies appreciated.
Replace grunert 110v with 12v system testimonies
- Thread starter Cruising Spirit
- Start date
I have a 2003, 466 with Adler Barbour fridge freezer. It has worked well for me but I have nothing else to compare it to. I think it is power hungry but have not measured the consumption.
Thanks Mikem, so is it a spillover set up from freezer to fridge using just the one compressor and one plate, or the Adler Barbour “box” shaped evaporator?
Or, do you run two compressors, each running a plate, or box. One in fridge and one in freezer? Thanks!
Or, do you run two compressors, each running a plate, or box. One in fridge and one in freezer? Thanks!
That's what I've been thinking of doing, two units. Gives options, you wouldn't have to run both if just doing day sails, but kick the second unit up for an extended journey.
One other question. I believe the Glen Henderson 466 version is the same set up as the 460 version/set up when it comes to placement of the 16k btu air conditioner against the hull under the settee forward of the freezer. If that is so in your boats case, did you place the compressors forward of the air conditioner under middle of settee or someplace else?
One other question. I believe the Glen Henderson 466 version is the same set up as the 460 version/set up when it comes to placement of the 16k btu air conditioner against the hull under the settee forward of the freezer. If that is so in your boats case, did you place the compressors forward of the air conditioner under middle of settee or someplace else?
My compressors are under the center of the port settee. I don’t have air conditioning.
Mikem, thank you for your help. When you mentioned absence of air conditioning on your 466, I noticed your base is Bremerton. Mine being Florida, we are always fighting heat. It's a reason I'm hesitant to place the compressors under the settee. I'm trying to figure a way to place them aft so I can vent the heat to the cockpit. I'm in a larger effort to improve the boats modus operandi regard energy and heat. Here's the problem. Grunert 110v must run twice a day for about 2 hours each episode. Grunert does operate on the inverter, but both create much heat and knock down the batteries. So, run the generator to run Grunert and eliminate load on inverter and batteries. Now, the generator is on and it's hot, so run the air conditioning. Its a recurring cycle where more and more generator hours are consumed. We put 13,300 hours (!) on the Northern Lights M-673 (we cruised 6 straight years, so, that boiled down to 6 generator hours per day) to run the Grunert. I must say, the Northern Lights and the Grunert are awesome but their middle name is energy and fuel. I think back to simpler days (different boat) when we ran a 12 v fridge evaporator type system...lasted years with little fuss. So, Here is the solution: replace the still running Northern Light and the Grunert with low heat solar driven refrigeration. I'm joking a little here, but we all know it's true, "Comfy wife, happy sailing life"!!! No doubt, I'm putting in a new Northern Lights generator because there will be times we want air conditioning on, but it will be by choice rather than saying, "well, we gotta run the fridge anyway".
SG, thanks for your question. I'm guessing you might be a proponent of Sea Frost and so elaborated my situation above. I've got questions and I've got answers...but I'm always interested in more answers. I've been looking at the range of available 12v fridge/freezer units. Water cooling solves a lot of heat problem. Based on price, I'm a little motivated toward Adler Barbour and the air plus water option of the Super Cold Machine. But Adler Barbour is "Dometic" and my observation is Dometic's acquisition of Adler Barbour means I'm probably not getting the same quality unit I had in that other boat years ago. So, if I may ask, what is your experience with Sea Frost? Our fridge box is 9 cubic feet and the separate freezer box is 6 cubic feet. Insulation is very good but could be better--but I'm not going there right now. Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
SG, thanks for your question. I'm guessing you might be a proponent of Sea Frost and so elaborated my situation above. I've got questions and I've got answers...but I'm always interested in more answers. I've been looking at the range of available 12v fridge/freezer units. Water cooling solves a lot of heat problem. Based on price, I'm a little motivated toward Adler Barbour and the air plus water option of the Super Cold Machine. But Adler Barbour is "Dometic" and my observation is Dometic's acquisition of Adler Barbour means I'm probably not getting the same quality unit I had in that other boat years ago. So, if I may ask, what is your experience with Sea Frost? Our fridge box is 9 cubic feet and the separate freezer box is 6 cubic feet. Insulation is very good but could be better--but I'm not going there right now. Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
We've had, on our prior and current boat, Sea Frost equipment. We had a 12v/110 V model originally on our Sabre 42 decades ago. Then, when we got our current J/Boat over 20 years ago, we went with a different holding plate system which drew (like your Grunnert) huge loads for an 1/2 to hour. That's very tough on even a large bank of 12V DC batteries. Finally, I'd had it and replaced the system with a dual compressor 12 VDC Sea Frost system over 12 years ago.
It's been much better, quieter, and functions fine. The system allows us to use a air- or water for removing the heat of rejection. The compressors are in the main cabin under a seatee. You can hear the compressor humming when on air-mode and on -- when the Surflo pump is working you can here it in the background.
SeaFrost has been under the same ownership and management for over 3 decades by it's founder. It's based in the Northeast US. Give Cleave Horton a call.
We have, on our J/Boat very large boxes with three lids in the refrig; and one in the freezer. Your boxes sound much more reasonably sized :^))).
We sail mostly in the Chesapeake, except when we go to New England for about 6 weeks most summers. We know HOT and HUMID too. The Seafrost isn't a noticable problem with the compressor to me. If you have AC and a generator, you'll not be using it more because of the refrigeration, in my opinion.
It's been much better, quieter, and functions fine. The system allows us to use a air- or water for removing the heat of rejection. The compressors are in the main cabin under a seatee. You can hear the compressor humming when on air-mode and on -- when the Surflo pump is working you can here it in the background.
SeaFrost has been under the same ownership and management for over 3 decades by it's founder. It's based in the Northeast US. Give Cleave Horton a call.
We have, on our J/Boat very large boxes with three lids in the refrig; and one in the freezer. Your boxes sound much more reasonably sized :^))).
We sail mostly in the Chesapeake, except when we go to New England for about 6 weeks most summers. We know HOT and HUMID too. The Seafrost isn't a noticable problem with the compressor to me. If you have AC and a generator, you'll not be using it more because of the refrigeration, in my opinion.
Nice reply SG, thanks. Sounds like you’ve walked in similar shoes. So, when you do your 6 week stints, are you anchoring or marinas? The point of my question, how many amps are they pulling in 24 hours, what’s your bank, and how are you replenishing?
First, I wouldn't call our situation as "normal".
- We have about 9 CF of freezer with a single lid; and about 13 CF of refrigerator with a lid plus two "side" doors.
- When underway we have 2 Furuno 12" MFD's, 2 B&G 9" Displays, a slew of B&G H5000 instruments, radar, AIS, Sirius Weather, a Furuno and a B&G electronic compasses, and a PC running Nobeltec.
- There are iPads, iPhones, Kindles, and iPods that are usually charging, etc.,
- Most of the Nav lighting is LED and most of the interior lighting are retrofitted LED's.
- Unless something weird happens, we might be drawing between 22-30 amps a 12VDC (nominal)
- The radar doesn't run in anchorages (except of putz around); and, I put a bunch of the displays on standby, if I can.
- We have an 200 Amp Mastervolt Combi - Inverter Charger System
- There is about 600 AH's of Lithium Io ReLion batteries for the house bank, and Optima generator and main engine start batteries.
- We have a 250 Amp Alternator on the Yanmar to charge the house banks (and a 50 Amp Delco to charge the engine start battery). On the generator, we have a 50 amp alternator for the engine start battery.
We used to have 800+ AH of Lifeline AGM's. But I got tire of replacing them when they sulfated-up. (The first set lasted 7 years, then (because I thought: They don't owe me anything, I replaced them). Then three years later, I replaced them because the sulfated up. Three more years later, same thing. Then two years, then.... Finally I said enough and went with the Lithium batteries a couple of seasons ago. If you want, you can draw them down and use the AH's. With AGM's we almost NEVER drew them down below 45%.
With regard to our Maine trips, about 50% at marinas -- otherwise on a hook or mooring for the nights. In the Chesapeake - 75%-85% at anchor when cruising.
That’s an awesome yacht you have there SG! And not just so well outfitted, but to be a J so equipped must be joyful to sail! I’ve been on a number of boats and yachts that don’t have near the number of energy redundancies you do.
But I’m thinking I would use under 150 a/h per day running 2 units. Do your Seafrosts run continuously or do they cycle? Being a J Yacht, you probably have highly affective insulation from original manufacture. So, I’m guessing they cycle. If so, any guess on what percentage in 24?
But I’m thinking I would use under 150 a/h per day running 2 units. Do your Seafrosts run continuously or do they cycle? Being a J Yacht, you probably have highly affective insulation from original manufacture. So, I’m guessing they cycle. If so, any guess on what percentage in 24?
The efficiencies of the quality units in AH (BTU’s, etc) are a much narrower band then you’d think.
go for a system that is reliable, quiet, good controls, and support from a manufacturer you can deal with.
Depending on how much you are in and out of the boxes, how good the insulation and doors/lids are sealed, and the ambient temps, etc. have a lot to Dow with how many AH you use.
The units do cycle; and, they don’t run continuously. 150 AH could be about right per day for refrigeration. (If you try to keep the freezer so the ice cream won't be soft ;^)))
Hey @Cruising Spirit , I just picked up a 2001 Hunter 460 and am grappling with the same issue, looking to replace the 110v compressor for the fridge/freezer. I am converting to LiFePo4 and stay on the hook frequently, so need to get WAY more efficient with the cold box...
If you're still on here, would you share what you ended up doing, how you did it, and how it's working out? I'd be very grateful for any advice/thoughts!
-Nick
If you're still on here, would you share what you ended up doing, how you did it, and how it's working out? I'd be very grateful for any advice/thoughts!
-Nick
NotCook
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- Dec 29, 2008
- 806
Nick, about 5 years ago we also replaced our Grunert 110V refrigeration with a Sea Frost 12V system, and have been exceedingly satisfied with it. In our case, we only implemented one compressor and plate for the refrigerator, and have never converter the freezer. cleave Horton and his staff were very helpful in the process, and I did the entire installation myself. It is virtually silent, versus the horrendous sound the Gruber made, especially at startup. We found the storage plates for the Grunert did not maintain the cold as effectively as claimed. We had to run the generator 4 times a day to keep them cold. Our solar keeps out SeaFrost system running plus our batteries charged on the hook 24x7. We couldn’t be happier. If we decided to use the freezer, we would add a second compressor and 2 smaller plates in the freezer compartment. As is, we make ice cubes using ice cube trays, supplied by SeaFrost, which hang on the cold plate.
We couldn’t be happier.
Hey NotCook - thank you so much for the reply!
Not sure if it's better to connect via PM or other means, but I'd love to learn more about the nitty-gritty details of the parts, plumbing, install process, etc. E.g. did you go with air or water cooling? If the latter, how was it plumbed? How much amp usage when running/how much per day overall, etc.?
I sent an inquiry to the SeaFrost email box a couple weeks ago, but no reply yet - would love to get their direct contact info if possible.
Looks like you have a very different vessel vs. my simple Hunter, but I'm sure most of your learnings will still apply!
Best,
Nick
No help to you on your request but...
I am putting back my Grunert with new 404r refrigerant, because I have a friend in the AC business.
I got the Info from Dometic for all the components.
1) Compressor
2) Expansion Valves
3) refrigerant filter
Also another vendor makes a replacement exactly like the Grunert.
We would have to rip out our Corian Counter top for another Unit.
Jim...
I am putting back my Grunert with new 404r refrigerant, because I have a friend in the AC business.
I got the Info from Dometic for all the components.
1) Compressor
2) Expansion Valves
3) refrigerant filter
Also another vendor makes a replacement exactly like the Grunert.
We would have to rip out our Corian Counter top for another Unit.
Jim...
Does anyone have the volume figures for the refrigerator and freezer on a Hunter 460? I tried a word search on a pdf copy of the manual, to no avail.
We're in the process of replacing our Grunert with Technautics CoolBlue Refrigeration System: https://www.cruiserowaterandpower.com/coolblue-marine-refrigerator-system/custom-cold-plate-systems/
also see
Refrig and freezer coldplate sizing depends on volume and I haven't been able to find those stats anywhere, so far. Any info would be greatfully accepted.
We're in the process of replacing our Grunert with Technautics CoolBlue Refrigeration System: https://www.cruiserowaterandpower.com/coolblue-marine-refrigerator-system/custom-cold-plate-systems/
also see
One more thumbs up for SeaFrost. I replaced the factory installed Adler Barbour spillover unit with a SeaFrost unit. Awesome performance and excellent service from Cleave and his team. My boat is housed in Texas with months of 100 degree, high humidity environment. My smart controller allows for automatic or user selected run time-operates in cycles, not continual. Cannot say enough positive about the system and support. SeaFrost number is 603-868-6720
Time to get out the measuring tape and calculate the volume, length x width x height.
The volume doesn't need to be that precise, so don't worry about small curves and tapers in the box.
Just replaced my Grunert with a Sea Frost, great company to work with.