Replace aluminum water tanks with "pillow" tanks

[Old Sailor 2]

OK all, I have a handle on it I think. with much discussion with the tank company it is my understanding that they have experience with boats and boating and will work with us to design what we need in a bladder tank. So the thinking is these pillow tanks will be something like a liner for the existing tanks....a good thing. for example I asked about access to the forward tank. They told me they will epoxy in the fittings in similar locations to the original fittings and of course the same size plus fitting for Tank Tender. We would only have to cut roughly 10" x 10" hole in the existing tank, cut out the baffles, clean up the edges and slide in the new bladder. Inflate it with something like a shop vac and then areas designed for hanging will hang from the existing tank. So the concern about the fill line (and others) wont rise and fall with the tank level.

This sounds like a wonderful solution to our tank problems. Of course now the details must be worked out but i have contacted 4 different solid plastic tank companies who all say they don't do custom tanks...Ronco, Duracast (actually i have not heard back from them), Triple M (I think they are out of business but not sure), and one more. So bladders with drawings we can influence is the way I will go and we do not sacrifice capacity. Sandy

 

[Paul Cossman]

Again, Sandy, thanks for all the footwork.

Just FYI, I'm thinking of doing this only for my forward tank. My aft tank is still serviceable, and when it goes I may very well replace it with a hard tank.

Although the limited 10" x 10" hole would be nice, it seems to me that we'll need a much larger hole to get the baffling out and sharp edges ground down. But that doesn't bother me. Also, it seems like we'll need additional access so we can drill holes in the tank at the points where we put in supports for the bladder's hanging straps. Again, that doesn't bother me. (It does seem like these supports must be strong; I'm thinking of a partially or mostly full bladder repositioning itself while heeled over and banging to windward).

It all sounds optimistic!
Thanks,
Paul

 

[Old Sailor 2]

Again, Sandy, thanks for all the footwork.

Just FYI, I'm thinking of doing this only for my forward tank. My aft tank is still serviceable, and when it goes I may very well replace it with a hard tank.

Although the limited 10" x 10" hole would be nice, it seems to me that we'll need a much larger hole to get the baffling out and sharp edges ground down. But that doesn't bother me. Also, it seems like we'll need additional access so we can drill holes in the tank at the points where we put in supports for the bladder's hanging straps. Again, that doesn't bother me. (It does seem like these supports must be strong; I'm thinking of a partially or mostly full bladder repositioning itself while heeled over and banging to windward).

It all sounds optimistic!
Thanks,
Paul

Paul, please tell me who built your custom tank. I can't find anyone for the midships tank and I would prefer a custom poly tank but all have declined my inquiry so far.

As usual I agree wholeheartedly. And yes, a hole of 10 x 10 was just a suggestion for the possible size needed to insert the bladder but certainly more access will be needed for grinding the inside of the forward tank where the baffles are.

And by the way, the midships tank will have baffles in it according to the tank guys.

More as it happens.....Sandy

 

[Paul Cossman]

Paul, please tell me who built your custom tank. I can't find anyone for the midships tank and I would prefer a custom poly tank but all have declined my inquiry so far.

As usual I agree wholeheartedly. And yes, a hole of 10 x 10 was just a suggestion for the possible size needed to insert the bladder but certainly more access will be needed for grinding the inside of the forward tank where the baffles are.

And by the way, the midships tank will have baffles in it according to the tank guys.

More as it happens.....Sandy

Sandy,

I don't have a custom aft water tank; my aft tank is still the original. I was speaking about the future.... However, having said that, I DID replace my holding tank. I had a guy in Costa Mesa CA build me one from the specs I got from Hunter. I had him do it out of stainless steel, and my recollection is that it cost me about $350 to $400 about 14 years ago. He put baffles in it and he plumbed it to be either a diesel fuel tank or a holding tank. It was tedious, but not difficult, to do the remove and replace.

Paul

 

[CoolChange91-42passage]

Hey Sandy, just tried the Triple M number and got the message with the wife answering the phone. 207-985-4705. I would suggest calling during the posted business hours, Larry is the only one doing the tanks and they have reduced hours. I think if you call mid afternoon you should get someone. Tell them that you need the same tank they made for Jim Becker in Daytona Beach. Hopefully he kept design notes and if he didn't I can give you what he used for mine. He did a great job. --Jim

 

[Old Sailor 2]

Hey Sandy, just tried the Triple M number and got the message with the wife answering the phone. 207-985-4705. I would suggest calling during the posted business hours, Larry is the only one doing the tanks and they have reduced hours. I think if you call mid afternoon you should get someone. Tell them that you need the same tank they made for Jim Becker in Daytona Beach. Hopefully he kept design notes and if he didn't I can give you what he used for mine. He did a great job. --Jim

Roger that Jim! Thanks for the input. I really do think I would rather a solid poly tank BUT I have read things about taste leaching out of the plastic. You ever had any issues with that? But to tell you the truth, I do NOT enjoy the idea of taking the setee and the cabinet apart in order to get the tank out...but I would rather a solid tank so perhaps i need to prepare for the worst. My hot water heater and my valves are all right there at the curved part of the setee. and i hear that I will also have to remove the refrig/freezer compressors under the stairs to get that corner of the tank in place. NOT FUN! aActually I have considered getting a new tank and have it built an inch shorter so I might be able to lift the fittings and rotate the tank into place. But I am not sure I want to sacrifice that little space to get an easier installation when I am not sure it will work. do you have experience with replacing the midships tank and removing all the apparatus in order to install it? Just curious!! Sandy

 

[Old Sailor 2]

I am in San Diego for the next week and probably away from a computer for a while. I will check my stuff every once in a while. I am extremely interested in the midships replacement because I am convinced the bladder is the only way to deal with the forward tank. I want to deal with them both only once and then call it good and move on to the next project in my wonderful but 22 year old boat!

 

[CoolChange91-42passage]

Yup, experience I got, money not so much. It's actually quite easy to remove the stuff and then re-install. I replaced the water heater since I had friends with the same age boat tell me theirs was leaking so I just did it since I had it out anyway. The cabinet next to the chart table comes out, start by removing the top first. The settee can remain but the base has to come out so use something to hold up the seat itself. Screws are under the edge of seat easy to get to and there are a couple of screws in the floor, slide it out. Pick up the piece of floor that's over the tank, dig out the foam, remove tank - will need help for that, Clean the compartment, drill in a drain to the bilge, set in the new tank, foam it in place, redo the hookups, I took this opportunity to re-plumb the water system, reverse the disassemble process and bingo, you're done.

 

[Old Sailor 2]

Thanks Cool! This sounds like the solution for the mid ships tank. A lot of work and detail but not difficult.

I continue my correspondence with the bladder tank folks but found some info that might not be good. The cost for the tanks is $1075 for each instead of the initial impression that te $1075 was for both. At least the set up fee is a one time fee. This still might be viable for the forward tank but we will have to compare bladder cost and effort to other solutions.

More as I think of it! Sandy

 

[Old Sailor 2]

Hey Sandy, just tried the Triple M number and got the message with the wife answering the phone. 207-985-4705. I would suggest calling during the posted business hours, Larry is the only one doing the tanks and they have reduced hours. I think if you call mid afternoon you should get someone. Tell them that you need the same tank they made for Jim Becker in Daytona Beach. Hopefully he kept design notes and if he didn't I can give you what he used for mine. He did a great job. --Jim

Jim, I did call and voila, they answered. Thanks for the number. And suddenly this seems to be the best option for the midships tank adding a drain to the bilge. I am not sure if this is foolish but I plan a preemptive strike before my tank fails! Thanks again, Sandy

 

[Old Sailor 2]

Hey Sandy, just tried the Triple M number and got the message with the wife answering the phone. 207-985-4705. I would suggest calling during the posted business hours, Larry is the only one doing the tanks and they have reduced hours. I think if you call mid afternoon you should get someone. Tell them that you need the same tank they made for Jim Becker in Daytona Beach. Hopefully he kept design notes and if he didn't I can give you what he used for mine. He did a great job. --Jim

Jim, i was finally able to get in touch with Triple M and they seem very accommodating. Their quote for the midships tank was something like $1100 which rivals that of the bladder tank without the concerns.. I will continue to pursue the bladder for the forward tank because that job seems unruly but my search for a viable alternative to simple replacement of the midships tank I think has ended. I was wondering two things; one is did you get an inspection port in your tank from Triple M? It is not expensive and if it doesnt leak it might come in handy one day but I don't know when. this should be the final tank insstalled and if I filter the water going in then that should be that....but.... and second what do you think about cutting an inch from the total height of the tank? I am thinking to get under the stair sole plate holding the compressors or under the cabinet on the port side it might help and it only calculates to a loss of about 5 gallons. Your thoughts since you have done this job?? Sandy

 

[CoolChange91-42passage]

Jim, i was finally able to get in touch with Triple M and they seem very accommodating. Their quote for the midships tank was something like $1100 which rivals that of the bladder tank without the concerns.. I will continue to pursue the bladder for the forward tank because that job seems unruly but my search for a viable alternative to simple replacement of the midships tank I think has ended. I was wondering two things; one is did you get an inspection port in your tank from Triple M? It is not expensive and if it doesnt leak it might come in handy one day but I don't know when. this should be the final tank insstalled and if I filter the water going in then that should be that....but.... and second what do you think about cutting an inch from the total height of the tank? I am thinking to get under the stair sole plate holding the compressors or under the cabinet on the port side it might help and it only calculates to a loss of about 5 gallons. Your thoughts since you have done this job?? Sandy

I didn't get an inspection port, never thought to ask, but I don't think it's necessary to have it. You mentioned you are filtering the water going into the tank so that would be 50 years before you might need such a thing. As far as making it smaller, mine fit perfectly with the height no problem and an inch to inch and a half around the sides. I used the cans of insulating foam from Home Depot to secure it back into the hole from wince it came. I vented the tank into the sumps near the compressors because you can't put the vent high enough to use the old vent. They forgot to tell me about lowering the vent and I got a crack in the top seem when I over filled the tank to the original vent height. Easy to fix with the welder they sent me to fix it. Actually very interesting to weld the plastic something else to put on my list of experiences. Anyway, vent has to be lower and so can't go overboard, has to go to the shower sump near the refrigerator compressors. I bought all new brass fittings to put on the tank, didn't reuse any of the old ones, not that expensive. I relocated all my water stuff, pump and reverse osmosis filter in the cabinet next to the chart table, didn't put the bottom back in the cabinet. Also since the reverse osmosis wastes so much water in the final stage, I put the waste water from the filter into the water tank since it's been filtered and purified with charcoal, hated to send it overboard, good enough to shower and use for other things, just don't use it to drink unless it's all I have. Can't stand the taste of dock water with out the four stage filtering. Did they keep the dimensions to my tank? Hope so, fit was perfect. Jim

 

[CoolChange91-42passage]

Thought I would include the photos of the Triple M tank before I installed it. And after if I can find them.

 

[Old Sailor 2]

I didn't get an inspection port, never thought to ask, but I don't think it's necessary to have it. You mentioned you are filtering the water going into the tank so that would be 50 years before you might need such a thing. As far as making it smaller, mine fit perfectly with the height no problem and an inch to inch and a half around the sides. I used the cans of insulating foam from Home Depot to secure it back into the hole from wince it came. I vented the tank into the sumps near the compressors because you can't put the vent high enough to use the old vent. They forgot to tell me about lowering the vent and I got a crack in the top seem when I over filled the tank to the original vent height. Easy to fix with the welder they sent me to fix it. Actually very interesting to weld the plastic something else to put on my list of experiences. Anyway, vent has to be lower and so can't go overboard, has to go to the shower sump near the refrigerator compressors. I bought all new brass fittings to put on the tank, didn't reuse any of the old ones, not that expensive. I relocated all my water stuff, pump and reverse osmosis filter in the cabinet next to the chart table, didn't put the bottom back in the cabinet. Also since the reverse osmosis wastes so much water in the final stage, I put the waste water from the filter into the water tank since it's been filtered and purified with charcoal, hated to send it overboard, good enough to shower and use for other things, just don't use it to drink unless it's all I have. Can't stand the taste of dock water with out the four stage filtering. Did they keep the dimensions to my tank? Hope so, fit was perfect. Jim

Wow Jim, great looking job. It looks like you did something like a barametric loop for the vent line then ran it back to the shower tank. The other thing I noticed is it appears they provided a thickened area for threaded connections into the tank. that is where you put on your new brass fittings. but the pick up had a fitting on it already and I assume that is for the line that goes to the opposite lower corner for the full use of the tank. Did they provide that or did you do that portion of it. And do you remember how long from start to finish it took you to complete the job? Interestingly, my water pump is on the other side of the shelf wall. I am really getting excited about this project so excuse me if I ask too many questions! Sandy

 

[CoolChange91-42passage]

Actually, I took that picture before I rerouted the tube to the shower sump. The pickup tube was already installed in the tank, you have to furnish the rest of the fittings. I relocated the pressure pump because it was too crowded by the water heater. Put in new heater and rerouted all the water lines. I enjoyed doing it, like I said earlier, lots of experience, money not so much. Anyway it wasn't an impossible project like some can be. I ended up using the cabinet you see for the water pump and filter system. If you have any questions, just ask. If you would like to speak, cell is 386-451-2494 or email to gm@harbourbeachresort.com Jim

 

[Paul Cossman]

Jim,

Thanks for the great information and AWESOME photos. Really excellent job at detailing how to perform a major job. The photo of the new tank sitting underneath the settee is worth a thousand words.