Removing old fuel from my tanks

[Brian D]

Hi everyone!

So now that I am almost home, it is time for me to start making a list of maintenance items for the boat. First priority is to remove the year-old fuel from my tank and replace the fuel filters. I don’t want to use the old fuel in the motor. It might foul up the carburetor (motor is brand new). So the question is… how? Now this shouldn’t be too big a chore as it is less than 10 gallons I believe. The motor is a Yamaha 9.9 Outboard.

Here are some thoughts. But as a preface, I did this several years ago and it was a mess. I would like to do this right this time.

First thought, siphon. This might work but I cannot get the fill can below the tanks unless I do it outside the boat. There is a reason I do not want to put the fill cans where they will be visible. One would be minor fuel spill always clings to the source so it will be obvious it was me. But this is an option. I could also put the fill can in a trash bag, like a wine-o put the wine in a paper bag. LOL

Second thought, manual pump. This should work. Keep the fill can in the cockpit and use a hand crank pump to move the fuel from the tanks to the can. Could be messy but at least it is not visible. Problem? The arms might get tired from the constant pumping.

Third thought, fuel pump. With this I can use either water pressure or electric (probably not a good idea) to move the fuel from the tanks to the fill can. I think it would be the easiest. If I get a used outboard fuel pump that works on the raw cooling water flow, I could hook up the dock water hose and it will act as the pump. I can do this in the cockpit to keep the fumes to a low roar. Problem? I might be limited to x gallons per hour which could take some time to finish the task. But with the water hose also connected to the fresh water flush port, it looks like I am flushing the engine.

Any other ideas or thoughts? As always, the expertise on this board was well worth the admission fee.

Brian D

 

[Merlin Clark]

Unless an electric pump is rated for gasoline transfer don't go that way. Might be a way to meet your maker.
A cheap hand pump http://www.harborfreight.com/multi-use-transfer-pump-66418.html would probably do the job but I'd finish in one go because gas may ruin the pump after sitting.

 

[RichH]

Suggest you go to a tool rental store and rent a manual fuel/gasoline compatible diaphragm 'transfer pump'.
When pumping keep the 'hoses' as nearly as level to the center of the bulk of the fuel as possible ... will lessen the 'siphon effect' when you are stopping/starting and changing hoses from container to container (re: spills, etc.).

.... OR, If the boat is already on 'jackstands', etc. simply 'siphon' the fuel from the elevated tank to the ground.... using TWO people: one to monitor the amount in the receiver tank and the other to pull the hose from the elevated tank (and being mindful of the content of hose to be added to the receiver tank on the ground) when the receiver tank is nearly filled ... and you simply pull the hose out of the elevated tank to stop the flow ... and watch the hose drain to the receiver . Just use a reasonably small diameter (polypropylene) hose for the siphon transfer so that you wont be overwhelmed by the transfer rate.

Dont forget to drain the carburetor bowl (there should be a drain plug) to remove any remaining fuel in the 'carb'. I assume when you shut down the OB for the last time that you shut off the fuel supply to the running engine and simply let the engine 'starve' ... if so there wont be 'much' left in the carb bowl; yet, the little bit left in the bowl will still have to be removed.

Its always a good idea after draining a carb bowl, to take a syringe (10-25ml) full of isopropyl alcohol (IPA) and 'flush out' the carb bowl through the open drain plug. Just stick the syringe into the drain plug opening and 'squeeze'.

 

[Calif. Ted]

Sure you don't want to check with the fuel dock and see if they could handle it for a modest fee ?
Jack Stands ? This is California, what's a Jackstand?

 

[Chris Patterson]

I've got one of those cheap Harbor Freight pumps, and have used it DOZENS of times. I thought the cheap little thing would puke after job one, but wow! I still have it in my working truck for another project. Now, I'll clean it up after something horrible, like pumping out the wife's leftovers, and it comes apart easily. Best 5 bucks I've ever spent..

 

[Gunni]

You are dealing with a problem that many gas-powered boaters have these days. You need plenty of fuel in your tank for those long cruises, but you don't want it in there more than 60 days. So how do you manage your fuel? I would plumb a proper 12vdc electric marine fuel pump into the tank system with a dip tube pick-up, valve a positive shut off, and make sure your connections can't loosen and arc, everything fused. With a coiled discharge hose you can quickly evacuate your tanks as required.

 

[Brian D]

Thanks everyone for your feedback.

Gunni, would an electric fuel pump force feeding the outboard cause any issues? I think a fuel pump at the source (tanks) would ease the pressure or requirements of the outboard to siphon the fuel out of the tank. But I think the fuel filtration at the tank is doing the siphoning more or less, filling the bowl thus having the outboard just take that fuel.

Gives me room for thought. But I am still a little scared of an errant arc could blow the stern off the boat. Still, silicone the contacts. Might work.

I really would like to replace the two 30 gal tanks I have with new Moeller 12 gal tanks. then I am not required to have as much fuel on the boat at any given time unless I decide to do a long trip.

Thanks again.

 

[Dan Johnson]

Brian D...

In addition to RichH's recommendations, don't forget to spray fogging oil in the mouth of the carb while you (or helper) crank it over. It will protect the cylinder walls, rings, and valves while the engine is layed up.

 

[Gunni]

Gunni, would an electric fuel pump force feeding the outboard cause any issues? I think a fuel pump at the source (tanks) would ease the pressure or requirements of the outboard to siphon the fuel out of the tank. But I think the fuel filtration at the tank is doing the siphoning more or less, filling the bowl thus having the outboard just take that fuel.

Quite frankly, I don't know. But plenty of mobos have electric fuel pumps on their merc engines. If what you have works, KISS

Gives me room for thought. But I am still a little scared of an errant arc could blow the stern off the boat. Still, silicone the contacts. Might work.

That is why I would wire it so the the pump connections were dead until you needed them, and I would mount the pump outside a confined space where vapors could build up. Maybe even place it on a portable mount that could be quick-coupled and then removed. Leaving gasoline in tanks just doesn't work for small motors anymore.

 

[RichH]

Yes, it will have a high probability to affect the carburetor operation and cause a slightly rich mixture as well as causing the 'flaps valves' that are integral on/with the gasketing in the aux. passages to deform prematurely.
The metering (via 'float' and 'float needle valve' in the 'bowl') causes a precise 'static head' of fuel 'above' the main metering jet and which precisely results in 'correct air/fuel ratio'.
continued 'extra feed pressure', on the rubber tipped float needle valve causes higher 'static height' before the valve fully closes, plus higher internal operating pressure of the bowl (and even that its vented to the atmosphere) hence, the possibility of richer mixture ... over the long term.
Will you notice this difference? perhaps not, but then again maybe; but, you *will* be changing out that polymer tipped float needle valve more often.

 

[tommays]

I went KISS and used and outboard fuel line kit from Moeller as the primer bulb is plenty fast to deal with 10 gallons of fuel and also CHEEP AND SAFE and has enough

When not in use i drain it and keep the ends pluged with 5/16 bolts to stop and oder as it comes in handy here and there

During the10 day hurricane blackout it took all of 25 minutes to get 12 gallons out of the Cal's tank to keep the generator running

 

[jibes138]

I second Tommays suggestion. I use a standard fuel line with the squeeze bulb all the time to siphon diesel into my tank to prevent spills . The squeeze bulb makes it easy to start the siphon and they are long enough to get the outlet below the tank level as required for a siphon.
NAPA stores carry electric fuel pumps if you really want to go that route. It would be simple to rig up but this is a ZERO TOLERANCE situation. Any error and you pretty much have a bomb ready to explode and take you with it.

 

[BobM]

I'd try this

http://www.terapump.net/TRHD03-Battery-Powered-Water-Gas-Transfer-Pump-p/terlqd026.htm

Reviews are mixed, but it is supposed to be okay for gas transfers. Complaints seem to be that it is cheap, but for a one time use who cares. If it will pump when it is running dry and then inserted into liquid, start it six feet away from the source of ignition and then walk over with it, but the biggest risk is likely static...plastic can, plastic hose, plastic boat...I'd run a wire to the tank, a wire to the can and throw the other ends overboard to ground everything to the same potential. Problem may be that it only extends about 22 inches.

Oh, and an easy source for a pair of long grounding wires is a pair of jumper cables. Just need a short length of wire or some other contact to dip into the boats fuel tank.

Nice to have you back.

Bob

 

[BobM]

Perhaps not.

http://www.terapump.net/TRHD03-Battery-Powered-Water-Gas-Transfer-Pump-p/terlqd026.htm

The wand is only 14.5" so perhaps not very useful for pumping from a fixed tank. I think I could get mine about half empty if I was lucky.

A Beckson hand pump with Buna-N seals and a PVC body may work. Some effect on PVC with gasoline, but not as bad as ABS, which should be avoided.

 

[RichH]

I went KISS and used and outboard fuel line kit from Moeller as the primer bulb is plenty fast to deal with 10 gallons of fuel and also CHEEP AND SAFE and has enough

When not in use i drain it and keep the ends pluged with 5/16 bolts to stop and oder as it comes in handy here and there

During the10 day hurricane blackout it took all of 25 minutes to get 12 gallons out of the Cal's tank to keep the generator running

Agree with Tom, especially about 'safety'. A diaphragm pump as I previously recommended, is simply a 'squeeze-primer bulb' with an operating 'lever' handle. Any such manual pump system will be aided by the siphon-effect (depending on the height differences between supply container and receiving container) ... once you get the 'hosing' totally filled with liquid.
KISS is usually the best way, even for 'rocket science', and especially when working with 'hazardous' things like gasoline, etc.

 

[Steve Dion]

Brian:

Something like this should work for gasoline. You can take the old gas to your local fire department. They normally take this stuff and use it for the training camps.

http://www.harrietcarter.com/index....roductID/3C5E291D-8A55-486E-945D-0B8DF6392B83

You could also remove all of the fuel and get a Baja Filter so you can reuse it. Are you planning on removing the tank and cleaning it after the fuel removal?

 

[Stu Jackson]

Super Siphon - Google it. Great little tool

 

[Brian D]

Thanks again guys. I will look at my options when I get home at the end of the month. But the gas I have has to go. Been in there about a year. So siphon will probably be the first order of business. Then I'll come up with a more creative way later, that is, without blowing up the boat.

 

[jibes138]

Stu, Super Siphon looks like a great little tool and cheap to boot. Thanks for the tip.

 

[catsailor]

1. A pump at the tank violates USCG regulations for gasoline installation, unless you follow some very specific guidelines. The pressurized line, if it fails, is a deadly hazard. Don't do it, your insurance company will have a heart attack. In fact, there should be an anti-siphon valve on the tank draw to insure slight suction (these are somewhat prone to plugging).

2. The outboard may include a fuel pump, certainly from 6 hp and up. If it does not have an on-board tank it has a pump built-in.

3. Fuel (e-10) can keep for much longer if protected from moisture and oxygen with a vent filter. See article in next Practical Sailor.
http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/2012/11/gasoline-and-fuel-tank-vent-filters.html
These are EPA mandated on new gasoline powered boats, subject to a phase in period.

4. For 10 gallons I would just siphon. Slower, but safe. I'd put a small valve on the lower end if working alone.

Better yet, use the engine more and burn the gas. Yes, I know we are sailors, but our engines fail more from disuse than hours.