i am considering making my cutter into a sloop for local sailing due to the chafe tacking back and forth in the area i sail, but will keep the inner stay for the club jib. What i want to do is make the inner stay removable with a lever type attachment and make it loose footed. My question is.... where do you place the track on the cabin top? how long are they and do you sheet them from cabin top winches that you have added? any pictures would be helpfull. thanks
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Ed Schenck
Do not understand.
Chet, are you asking about tracks for the jib? Or about how to sheet the staysail? I think tracks for the jib would be very difficult with the shrouds positioned the way that they are. Seems like you would have the blocks too far back to be able to control the leech tension. Where I have seen tracks added they were on the deck next to the cabin, not on the cabin top. If you are asking about sheeting the loose-footed staysail then why? Why would you go to the trouble and expense when you just converted it to a sloop? I like my arrangement. Raised the mid-boom so that the dinghy fits under it. Bought an oversized yankee so I seldom have to use the staysail. Staysail remains self-tacking and keeps the boat balanced when I have to reef. If I had lots of money for new winches I would consider a loose-footed staysail. But I would not remove the mid-stay, it is integral to the rig.
Chet, are you asking about tracks for the jib? Or about how to sheet the staysail? I think tracks for the jib would be very difficult with the shrouds positioned the way that they are. Seems like you would have the blocks too far back to be able to control the leech tension. Where I have seen tracks added they were on the deck next to the cabin, not on the cabin top. If you are asking about sheeting the loose-footed staysail then why? Why would you go to the trouble and expense when you just converted it to a sloop? I like my arrangement. Raised the mid-boom so that the dinghy fits under it. Bought an oversized yankee so I seldom have to use the staysail. Staysail remains self-tacking and keeps the boat balanced when I have to reef. If I had lots of money for new winches I would consider a loose-footed staysail. But I would not remove the mid-stay, it is integral to the rig.
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Edward Kennedy
One solution I saw
One boat I looked at had made put the inner forestay on a toggle lever to make it removable, but kept the staysail boom by mounting it on a short pedistal instead of on the stay. The only difference when using the staysail, was that it was loose footed to the end of the boom instead of having the foot slid theough the slot in the boom.
One boat I looked at had made put the inner forestay on a toggle lever to make it removable, but kept the staysail boom by mounting it on a short pedistal instead of on the stay. The only difference when using the staysail, was that it was loose footed to the end of the boom instead of having the foot slid theough the slot in the boom.
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chet p
to much red wine
gotta stay away from that stuff, makes me foggy. Anyway guys what i am trying to do is make the club footed jib NON club footed and use it as if it were a regular jib, by adding tracks on the cabin top to sheet it. It will no longer be self tacking and it will be a hank on rather than roller furled, but as i explained, in the area i sail a single headsail is fine for weekend sailing. As my local sailmaker stated "i'll be seeing you alot to restitch seams if you keep tacking that thru the slot". I plan on keeping the inner stay for use when i go off shore to the bahamas but want to just tie it back to the rail and sail with the 130% genoa that came with the boat on the weekends(yes i do have a yankee also). The boom on the club has already done it's thing on my shins once and that was in mild conditions. Just reciently i read an article in either CW or SAIL that was touting the plusses of the staysail and they remarked about the same thing, the first splash heard from and offshore sailor with a club boom is the splash it makes when they throw it overboard. I don't want to give up the staysail, just not use on a day to day basis. I guess what i will have to do is go to the old trial and error method and see where the sail sets without the boom and mount some tracks there on the cabin top. I hope this is clear now as i have changed to white wine cp
gotta stay away from that stuff, makes me foggy. Anyway guys what i am trying to do is make the club footed jib NON club footed and use it as if it were a regular jib, by adding tracks on the cabin top to sheet it. It will no longer be self tacking and it will be a hank on rather than roller furled, but as i explained, in the area i sail a single headsail is fine for weekend sailing. As my local sailmaker stated "i'll be seeing you alot to restitch seams if you keep tacking that thru the slot". I plan on keeping the inner stay for use when i go off shore to the bahamas but want to just tie it back to the rail and sail with the 130% genoa that came with the boat on the weekends(yes i do have a yankee also). The boom on the club has already done it's thing on my shins once and that was in mild conditions. Just reciently i read an article in either CW or SAIL that was touting the plusses of the staysail and they remarked about the same thing, the first splash heard from and offshore sailor with a club boom is the splash it makes when they throw it overboard. I don't want to give up the staysail, just not use on a day to day basis. I guess what i will have to do is go to the old trial and error method and see where the sail sets without the boom and mount some tracks there on the cabin top. I hope this is clear now as i have changed to white wine cp
Leave it alone
The 'oldies' will please forgive me for reiterating this again. 1. The inner forestay is integral to the rig. It's designed to be there. Only a designer can properly reengineer your rig for you-- pieces of rigging are not like storm windows you can choose to take off or not. So remove it as you like-- but don't complain if you kink the mast above the shrouds some time during a hasty coming-about in nasty weather. 2. Racers raced cutters for years before you and I came along. There is nothing detrimental about racing a cutter. If you can tack one jib you can tack two (trim the inner one first; it's faster and easier. Better yet have two jib people). Handicap rules take care of the boat-vs-boat differences. Most cruising-boat racing entails essentially unmodified boats with a 'run what you brung' philosophy. Remove the inner stay for racing and see what PHRF will do to you (probably nothing compared to what angry clubbers yelling 'cheater!' will do if you should happen to win). I suspect you would rather have the stay fixed and the rating credit than neither. 3. In order to keep good sail shape, consider making BOTH headsails roller-furling and loose-footed. We had (and the 'oldies' will again forgive my repeating here) two loose-footed jibs on our Cherubini 44 cutter. I would make the outer jib slightly high-cut and about 135 of the outer J and the little one lower cut and also about 135-150 of the inner J. This should cover all possibilities for working-sail combinations (especially downwind in 'non-spinnaker') and look great besides. Remember under PHRF they are only measuring your jib at 100 or 110, so with two headsails you can actually 'cheat' on rating. I am not sure anyone is going to be able to give you QUALIFIED advice as to selecting an adequate quick-release fitting or in locating hardware, since this is an UN-recommended modification. Whoever does advise you is welcome to take the (legal) responsibility of 'design consultant'; don't ask me to. JC 2
The 'oldies' will please forgive me for reiterating this again. 1. The inner forestay is integral to the rig. It's designed to be there. Only a designer can properly reengineer your rig for you-- pieces of rigging are not like storm windows you can choose to take off or not. So remove it as you like-- but don't complain if you kink the mast above the shrouds some time during a hasty coming-about in nasty weather. 2. Racers raced cutters for years before you and I came along. There is nothing detrimental about racing a cutter. If you can tack one jib you can tack two (trim the inner one first; it's faster and easier. Better yet have two jib people). Handicap rules take care of the boat-vs-boat differences. Most cruising-boat racing entails essentially unmodified boats with a 'run what you brung' philosophy. Remove the inner stay for racing and see what PHRF will do to you (probably nothing compared to what angry clubbers yelling 'cheater!' will do if you should happen to win). I suspect you would rather have the stay fixed and the rating credit than neither. 3. In order to keep good sail shape, consider making BOTH headsails roller-furling and loose-footed. We had (and the 'oldies' will again forgive my repeating here) two loose-footed jibs on our Cherubini 44 cutter. I would make the outer jib slightly high-cut and about 135 of the outer J and the little one lower cut and also about 135-150 of the inner J. This should cover all possibilities for working-sail combinations (especially downwind in 'non-spinnaker') and look great besides. Remember under PHRF they are only measuring your jib at 100 or 110, so with two headsails you can actually 'cheat' on rating. I am not sure anyone is going to be able to give you QUALIFIED advice as to selecting an adequate quick-release fitting or in locating hardware, since this is an UN-recommended modification. Whoever does advise you is welcome to take the (legal) responsibility of 'design consultant'; don't ask me to. JC 2
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chet p
thanks JC II
thanks for the input. I value and respect your opinion and will keep the inner stay. As a matter of fact just yesterday (8-4) i had the boat out and tried to race her in 8-14 kts of wind. when i pruchaced the boat the PO told me the extra jib was a 150 and was "fun and made the boat go alot faster, but it was a bit much to tack the sail thru the slot"....Well as i have learned from most of the other things the PO told me, the boat wasn't any faster with the 130 (not 150)and the fact that it is a BITCH to get it to come around and thru the slot between the forward and inner stay. I never put up the club, but after this weekend the Yankee goes back on and the 130 is for sale. I may consider going with the roller furler on the inner stay but that will mean i will still have to locate tracks on both sides of the cabin top to sheet it to, along with anding another winch to sheet it in on the starbord side. I know that there is a way to make it self tending by having it pull out on the club boom but i am not sure how that works....thanks again JCII....ANYBODY INTERESTED IN A GOOD USED 130??? CONTACT ME AT 1keladi@msn.com....$550 seems fair
thanks for the input. I value and respect your opinion and will keep the inner stay. As a matter of fact just yesterday (8-4) i had the boat out and tried to race her in 8-14 kts of wind. when i pruchaced the boat the PO told me the extra jib was a 150 and was "fun and made the boat go alot faster, but it was a bit much to tack the sail thru the slot"....Well as i have learned from most of the other things the PO told me, the boat wasn't any faster with the 130 (not 150)and the fact that it is a BITCH to get it to come around and thru the slot between the forward and inner stay. I never put up the club, but after this weekend the Yankee goes back on and the 130 is for sale. I may consider going with the roller furler on the inner stay but that will mean i will still have to locate tracks on both sides of the cabin top to sheet it to, along with anding another winch to sheet it in on the starbord side. I know that there is a way to make it self tending by having it pull out on the club boom but i am not sure how that works....thanks again JCII....ANYBODY INTERESTED IN A GOOD USED 130??? CONTACT ME AT 1keladi@msn.com....$550 seems fair
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Ed Schenck
Furling staysail.
You can furl the staysail and keep the boom and traveler arrangement Chet. It is hard to explain the block/line configuration. Best option is to find a nearby cutter to look at like any Island Packet. You will have to get a new loose-footed staysail for the furler obviously. If you furl/unfurl the staysail by going forward to the mast then the rigging can be much simpler. The sheeting could remain as original. I don't like having all that line all over the boat so I also sheet the staysail at the traveler. Just add a fiddle with a cam cleat. An additional hook on the mast gives me a place to stow the extra line.
You can furl the staysail and keep the boom and traveler arrangement Chet. It is hard to explain the block/line configuration. Best option is to find a nearby cutter to look at like any Island Packet. You will have to get a new loose-footed staysail for the furler obviously. If you furl/unfurl the staysail by going forward to the mast then the rigging can be much simpler. The sheeting could remain as original. I don't like having all that line all over the boat so I also sheet the staysail at the traveler. Just add a fiddle with a cam cleat. An additional hook on the mast gives me a place to stow the extra line.
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