Reletive cost

[Ross]

There has been much discussion of late about roller furling versus reefing. My question goes to the cost side of the equation, with either system, roller furling or slab reefing, let us start with new sails. Triple reef main, double reef jib, and roller furling main and jib. Can anyone compare the cost of the two systems? In one case new main and jib in the other case new roller furlers plus new main and new jib. For now we will can ignore the cost of maintainance on each system. Thanks for your thoughts here.Ross of Perryville, Maryland

 

[Moody Buccaneer]

No contest

For a 30 foot boat adding a boom furling system is about $8000, the Jib furler is about $3000 (installed prices in CND $)The Main sail will cost about $2500-3000The Jib about $1500-2000Add $2000 for a bat-car system and lazy jacks for the main.Sails $4000 - $6000Main handling system $2000Sails $4000 - $6000Furlers $11,000

 

[Acoustic]

I don't think the cost is worth it

It's just not worth it to add main sail furling to a 30 foot boat. I think head sail furling is certainly worth the cost though. Most used hank on head sails can be converted to a luff tape so you can further reduce cost that way. To convert a main is not really worth while in terms of cost. My boat was brand new and Catalina had a boat show special where you could buy a boat and get the RF main at the same cost as a standard main. My boat was also designed with RF as part of the design. A dutchman system can be a big help and it's a lot cheaper.Even though I absolutely love my RF main I would not add it to a used boat less than 40 feet.

 

[Larry Long]

Here's the cost

Let me say, up front, that I understand the need for a very complete suit of sails for a racing boat and can't imagine a hard-core racer trying to compete with anything other than the most effective sails available, regardless of the amount of work necessary to make the most effecient use of them.I have paid my dues of having to haul a heavy main up a 60 foot mast and I will never do that again. If I have to go back to doing all of that work without the convenience of roller furling/reefing I will find another hobby. With roller furling, I find that I am much more likely to take the boat out of the slip. Without it, I am likely to stay in the slip. If I stay in the slip enough times I start to question the wisdom of having all of that money invested is something that is rarely used. The next step is for the unused boat to go on the market. Potential buyers ask around and learn that the easier to sail boats are more likely to be used. Without roller furling, my boat is going to be viewed as too much work to sail and will have to be discounted in order to sell. The lowered price of my boat will have a negative effect on the potential selling value of all of the other boats out there (including yours). There is your real relative cost.I believe this thread was started as a troll and nothing anyone could say will change your mind about roller furling mains. It is apperent that you are viewing this from a position of ZERO experience; otherwise you would know how foolish your position is on this issue. It is akin to saying that the new-fangled roller toilet paper is no good and nothing will ever work as well as the old reliable Sears and Roebuck catalog. I have owned and lived with both systems and can see the clear advantage of roller furling. If you haven't lived with both systems I believe you have no basis for saying anything, one way or the other, about them. Ross, can you say you have personal, long-term experience with both systems? If you have, please post the details so everyone reading this can know the facts. Moody Buccaneer, can you say you have personal, long-term experience with both systems? If you have, please post the details so everyone reading this can know the facts. Why do you insist on pretending to be experts on something that you obviously don't understand?

 

[David11054]

In boom system for our 27 footer

First of all, the Admiral and I don't see much added value in a bigger boat. We can charter when we want the space for more than 2 guests. (Especially grandchildren!) But we have simply not had the need yet.The Admiral did like the in-mast furling on the Hunter 340 we chartered in the North Channel. We both enjoy handling the sails on our '77 h27. But the day may come when scrambling up on deck doesn't feel as fun, or safe. When that day comes, we would much rather add an $8,000 upgrade to our $10,000 boat that really fits our needs, than spend a lot more to get a boat we think is too big, just to get furling. Finally, I llike the current boom furlers better, because they allow a modern, roachy main with battens.DavidLady Lillie

 

[Moody Buccaneer]

My Creds

I'm a professional Yacht Rigger. I've spent time dealing with more different kinds of furlers than most of the posters here. Where does that put you, Mr "I've owned one of each"? How many days have you spent repairing furlers that don't work? How many times have you had to explain how to use a furler to a Mr. "Know-it-all because I have one"?How mant masts have you built? How many rigs have you designed?Since *I* "obviously don't understand", please don't tell my boss. Acoustic is right on, the cost of adding a RF main system on a 30 ft boat is not worth it.Also correct that a RF headsail is probably a good investment. While it does not take the place of several headsails, it does make sailing easier and less time is spent at the dock fussing with sails.Furling boom systems are an easier retro-fit than furling mast systems.For boats with mains 400 sq ft or less, you owe it to yourself to look at the Harken bat-car system. For not much money (compared to a boom furler) you can take much of the effort out of raising the sail. Compared to the systems of just 5 years ago the new systems are smaller and less expensive. You can add the system to your existing main and then have a new main built to take full advantage of the system another season.While I'm name dropping, the ForeSpar in boom system is my favourite of the boom furling systems. You have to have a new sail made to fit the furler and it has to be *exactly* right. I've seen lofts have to do more than one re-cut to get the sail to work correctly.I hope I haven't insulted anyone.

 

[Ross]

Larrylong, My question was an

honest quest for information. I sail an old boat with very conventional rigging. No boom car, no genoa tracks, only one head stay. My sails are not too heavy for me to hoist by hand and tighten with a winch. I have watched folks sailing with jib furling and with jib and main furling and I was wondering about the cost of a complete furling system as compared to a set of reefing sails. I feel that your response was defensive and somewhat hostile. I personally don't care what a person prefers for a car, or a boat, or a house. Some people like dogs and some like cats. Some people like one and hate the other. I don't try to change any minds or opinions.

 

[Bob]

Hey Moody

I hope you have insulted someone. Larry Long seems to be long on wind. If Ross was an expert on furling systems, then he wouldnt have asked the question.Larry needs to check out anger management. Since Ross' question was about cost and that is exactly what Larry Longwind didnt answer, maybe he also ought to checkout a course on reading comprehension.Gee, i hope i didnt insult anyone.

 

[Ross]

There's that Bob

Again.

 

[Doug H-36]

I have sailed with both.

I can remember too many times being on the fore deck in a blow.This is even less fun solo. A jib furler is worth the price to eliminate fore deck time.On a thirty foot boat I don't think any main furling system is worth it. On my H-36 the RF main is great.No sail cover, ease out and in and reef to suite the wind.A boom furing main still requires cranking sail up the mast. On a larger boat a lot of us (not all) would want a powered winch. If you want cost savings keep reading the magazines and sail on OP's boats.

 

[Larry Long]

Doug H-36

I believe Doug said it as well as it can be said.Ross, you have my apologies. I believe Doug has provided a good answer by saying that it probably isn't worth it on a 30 foot boat. The sails just aren't heavy enough to warrant the added cost. Moody Buccaneer, does your boss know that you spend so much time playing on the internet? I am surprised that you can find the time. With all of the demand for repairing roller furling systems you keep talking about, I would think you would not have the time.

 

[John]

CDI Main sail reefing

I have seen a CDI RF main it looks OK it sits behind the mast and looks like a head sail furler.I think the cost was around 1100 and it lists for 1800 or so.I think that raiseing a main sail up in 25kts of wind then reefing is not fun . I sail alone alot and have auto helm4000 but i think its possable to fall off.I allso hate puting the sail cover on when not sailing.On sunday night it would nice to have one less thing to do.I think for 1100 dollers it mite be cool. John

 

[Capt Ron;-)]

Roller-fooler-spooler

Moody, your input is always good to see here and these folks are indeed fortunate to have your input.NOw I will have zero in agreement with me, but I am quite comfortable with that; you thought the earth was falt too.They ahve come a long way, true, and the idea 'sounds' good, too good; a window blind rolling up so easily...I will not go into my experience here, but I used many, many roler furlers, and they have one thing in common: THEY WILL LET YOU DOWN! Now, I will admit I have a few 'perfect' trips when I used a roller to geed effect, but a snarled drum, too much friction when wet, crew going ford in a blow, and many, many times they ahve let me down, and I am the soul of caution; reef early, reef before sundown etc I would not own one, and I like a rig screw on the forestay to tune. To depower I have a block with a 1/2" down haul attached to Jib, runs to cockpit, leave sheets on, pull the jib down onto the deck.Good enough for Joshua,"Spray" good enough fer me.

 

[Ross]

Larry, I think that

you will find that Moody Buc is self empolyed. In engineering terminolgy they speak of mean time before failure. This means that if you have a devise that will run for a thousand years before failing and there are ten thousand of these devises in service you can count on ten failures per year. The mystery is which ten.

 

[NYSail]

Wow

It really is time to splash a few boats......Moody, thanks for your professional input. I was also wondering about these items as I am currently completely upgrading my new 1986 P36-2. Look forward to hearing your first hand opinion regarding rigging and sails again.

 

[NYSail]

And I

will say, pulling a sail up a 60 foot mast is well worth the love, passion and excitement I have/get from sailing......So be it, I am willing to work for my love....more satisfaction (and I stay trim and fit for the admiral!). Beats the hell out of sitting in my easy chair, with chips on my belly watching other perople sail....

 

[Moody Buccaneer]

Peace, please?

Let's let the who knows more about what thing drop. My response was more confrontational than it should have been. I am sorry for that.I am the first to admit that I don't know all there is to know about boats and rigs. I learn something new almost every day. I hope I always understand that I will always have something to learn.I'm here because I like to talk about boats, learn something, and help others. If I insult people and make enemies, this wonderful site will be less enjoyable for me as well as others that don't need to see p*ssing contests.Thanks for putting up with me.

 

[Moody Buccaneer]

Reasons for RF?

One on the things that gets mentioned often is the effort it takes to raise large sails. I'm with Larry, I don't want to fight 60 feet of luff either.If effort is the main issue, retro fitting in-boom furling won't help. With in-boom furling you still have to grind the sail up. Some systems actually add friction and effort when raising the sail. There needs to be some friction in the luff to get the sail to furl properly in the boom. In many cases adding a powered winch for the main halyard should be considered when adding in-boom furling.When you get to the 60 foot luff sails, the foot is in the 20 foot range and dropping 600 ft^2 of sail and stowing it is quite a bit of work for small crews. A battcar system and lazy jacks or a Dutchman system will help, but that size sail is still a handful unless you have a good sized crew to deal with it. On rigs in that size range the added weight of in mast furling is a much smaller percentage of total rig weight and the penalty is small. Another consideration is that furling systems for sails that large are not built to a price (as many of the smaller systems are). The components are better and the installations are usually engineered well.In my opinion, RF mains start making some sense somewhere above the 3-400 ft^2 size. Below that my personal preference is for battcars and lazyjacks.

 

[Ross]

It is difficult

To respond gently when someone challenges your experience. There was once a man telling a story and one of his listeners declared that what was being related was impossible! To which the story teller responded "Were you there , Charlie?"We all have a tendency to base all of our knowledge on our own experience. When the broad fact is that there is much that we can learn from the mishaps of others. I have never sailed in the open ocean but have sailed in soft winds and near gales on the Chesapeake bay. My friends tell me that twenty knots on the open ocean is much more comfortable than on the bay. Should I doubt them? No! They have been out there.Will a Whisker pole be useful to me? Perhaps. Should I spend $$$$$ to find out or make one of bamboo and try it for a season? My friends say make one and see if it serves my needs. Maybe I won't need to buy a ready made. Let's all try to realize that my experience will not be the same as your experience but that doesn't make invalid either of our experiences. They are different, not wrong, not invalid. Someday you may find yourself where I have been and what I have related will be useful, and someday I may be where you have been, and I will be glad to remember what you warned of when you passed this way.

 

[Ross]

There was a time when

sails had to be hoist no matter what size. If they were too heavy for the crew then a two or three part tackle was used to hoist the sail. The old gaffers always used multi part tackle to raise the sails. It meant a lot of line to deal with but it did work.. Here on the Chesapeake the Skipjacks have very large sails and long booms and small crews so multi part tackle was always used. There is always more than one way to solve a problem. However if we go back to my original question, what I had in mind was to learn how much it costs to add this convenience to a moderm boat.Each owner has to decide whether or not it is worth the price.