Relays

Oct 2, 2008
3,807
Pearson/ 530 Strafford, NH
Hi all,

I have been working on getting my Kohler generator to get it running, one problem being the old 1510 series relays. Since Kohler says they’re out of production, I was wondering who might have some sitting on a shelf. I found a maybe relay on line, but not quite sure if they all work the same. Do they just connect wire A to wire B directly across from each other, or could they also connect diagonally? I’m in contact with someone who might be able to help in a week, but I’d like to sound intelligent on the phone.
Here’s one of the three relays.
.3F184211-A66C-4EA9-B3C8-0C03B81F0E67.jpeg
 

RitSim

.
Jan 29, 2018
406
Beneteau 411 Branford
A 1-pole relay has 5 contacts, 2-pole relay has 8 contacts, a 3-pole relay has 11 contacts. You should be able to replace your relay with any like-pole relay of the same voltage coil. You can use a 3-pole relay as a 2-pole relay with one set of contacts unused. Each relay pole has three contacts- a common, a normally closed, and a normally open contact. Two contacts are for the coil.
Your first task is to make a connection diagram and mark the existing wires. Determine the two coil contacts ( some relays have a diagram on the cover). One of these coil contacts will be a ground. Disconnect the other wires (possibly leaving the coil wires connected) Then use a continuity tester to determine which wire is connected to the common and normally closed. Energize the coil and use the continuity tester to locate the common and the normally open contacts- the common will be in BOTH scenarios. Repeat for the second ( and third) pole. Note that 12-volts (+ and -) is only found on the coil. Usually, all of the other wires will be 12 volt +, In some cases both the + and - are switched through the relay.
 

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Mar 6, 2008
1,078
Catalina 1999 C36 MKII #1787 Coyote Point Marina, CA.
Your diagram indicates what is known as "C" type contacts and is easily available from anywhere including Digi-key where they provide a large number of electrical devices on line as well as electronic. Call them up and they will help you find a match. You are using the normally open contacts.
Good luck. Let us know how it goes.
 
Oct 2, 2008
3,807
Pearson/ 530 Strafford, NH
I just found this thread again so I’m searching the web with your info.
 
Oct 2, 2008
3,807
Pearson/ 530 Strafford, NH
A 1-pole relay has 5 contacts, 2-pole relay has 8 contacts, a 3-pole relay has 11 contacts. You should be able to replace your relay with any like-pole relay of the same voltage coil. You can use a 3-pole relay as a 2-pole relay with one set of contacts unused. Each relay pole has three contacts- a common, a normally closed, and a normally open contact. Two contacts are for the coil.
Your first task is to make a connection diagram and mark the existing wires. Determine the two coil contacts ( some relays have a diagram on the cover). One of these coil contacts will be a ground. Disconnect the other wires (possibly leaving the coil wires connected) Then use a continuity tester to determine which wire is connected to the common and normally closed. Energize the coil and use the continuity tester to locate the common and the normally open contacts- the common will be in BOTH scenarios. Repeat for the second ( and third) pole. Note that 12-volts (+ and -) is only found on the coil. Usually, all of the other wires will be 12 volt +, In some cases both the + and - are switched through the relay.
I was chatting with an old sailor who suggested the sensors might be bad on the motor causing the relays to not allow the generator to start. He had to disconnect his one at a time to find the bad one. I counted six possible sensors.
 
Oct 2, 2008
3,807
Pearson/ 530 Strafford, NH
1575960408833.jpeg



[/QUOTE]
Apply 12v to each relay coil to test. You should hear each one click
So in the above diagram connect 1 to 3, then 1 to 4?
Here’s one of my relays.
It looks like the diagram above if the middle row of contacts aren’t used,,,,which mine aren’t.
217E5D28-4D38-4439-933C-B38BD7441E0E.jpeg
 
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RitSim

.
Jan 29, 2018
406
Beneteau 411 Branford
This relay from McMaster Carr (Mcmaster.com) should do the trick. When I tried Newark.com they listed your relay at $300+, other sites show this part number as discontinued.
 

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Sep 24, 2018
2,549
O'Day 25 Chicago
The coil in the below diagram is on pins 2 and 7
1575960408833.jpeg


Check this site out for info on relays in general. He usually does an excellent job of explaining things. Feel free to PM me and I can explain further over the phone if that's easier
Relays
 
Oct 2, 2008
3,807
Pearson/ 530 Strafford, NH
I’m starting to get the idea of what happens when it’s energized. The coil pulls the contact turning on the switch to, lets say, the starter. One relay controls two switches.

What could be on the switch when it’s not energized, my curiosity can’t think of a purpose for that?

I‘m going to read the circuit analysis page in the user’s manual again, maybe I’ll get the Devine intervention.

I opened the controller box and stared at the relays this afternoon , they didn’t even flinch. I read the starter analysis page from the user manual, wish it was color coded. Maybe this was when everything was in black and white. I did determine a hot wire from the battery and the ground. Maybe I’ll clean the ground contacts tomorrow. I noticed the other day in the cruisers lounge that Spock had the same issue on the Enterprise.
 
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Sep 24, 2018
2,549
O'Day 25 Chicago
I’m starting to get the idea of what happens when it’s energized. The coil pulls the contact turning on the switch to, lets say, the starter. One relay controls two switches.
It sounds like you have the basic idea

What could be on the switch when it’s not energized, my curiosity can’t think of a purpose for that?
Not every "switch" or terminal on the relay has to be used. They may have used the same relay in multiple applications to make things easier in the factory, save money on a bulk purchase or for supply chain logistics.
 
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LloydB

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Jan 15, 2006
805
Macgregor 22 Silverton
The first problem is a lack of a circuit diagram. Next is lack of a VOM and readings from it. About the only time I been able to tell if a relay was bad by looking at it was when it smelled worse than it looked.
 
Oct 2, 2008
3,807
Pearson/ 530 Strafford, NH
Well after reading all the material on relays I got checking mine and found them to be OK. Next step was finding why the thermal switch popped out stopping the engine. I found the water sensor near the thermostat looking dirty so I figured a cleaning was in order. I stripped the connection for the wire so I need a new one. Then my friend read my schematic and said that the water sensor and low oil pressure went to that thermal switch. Might as well change them both while I’m buying sensors.
 
Dec 2, 2003
751
Hunter 260 winnipeg, Manitoba
Where is the thermal switch mounted and does it have a push button to reset? Only way I’ve ever had a thermal switch trip was from excessive heat. When it cools they will usually either reset automatically or with the push reset depending on type. I’d be looking for what could cause an overheat in the part that the switch is mounted to. (Thermal switches can go bad but most seem to be from too frequently being tripped. )

model of generator would help troubleshoot.
 
Oct 2, 2008
3,807
Pearson/ 530 Strafford, NH
ED6AE8E8-0FEA-4626-B689-065AE66D6EAD.jpeg
1D4EE4FF-7CBF-4CFD-BB79-98AD3F6E9969.jpeg
Its there in the lower right hand corner, I had my friend help me follow the line backwards to the sensors.
 
Sep 24, 2018
2,549
O'Day 25 Chicago
I'm glad to hear your relays are working properly. Now might be a good time to pickup a spare just in case the inevitable happens.

A quick and easy way to test your sensors is to bypass them. Assuming they are a simple two wire (in/out) connection that interrupts the flow of electricity, you can use a small jumper between the two terminals. Alternatively you can remove the wires and connect them together
 
Oct 2, 2008
3,807
Pearson/ 530 Strafford, NH
I'm glad to hear your relays are working properly. Now might be a good time to pickup a spare just in case the inevitable happens.

A quick and easy way to test your sensors is to bypass them. Assuming they are a simple two wire (in/out) connection that interrupts the flow of electricity, you can use a small jumper between the two terminals. Alternatively you can remove the wires and connect them together
Yep, I now have two spare relays plus an old one a mechanic replaced last year. After changing the single wire water temperature sensor, the generator ran for about two minutes. I then disconnected the two wire water sensor and it was running longer but made an odd noise so I shut it down until I can get this sensor replaced. The local Napa is very helpful. I also noticed that the temperature gauge isn’t returning to zero, another thing to add to the list. My wife got so upset she went out and bought another pair of shoes .
 
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