Reefing

[Don Guillette]

There is thread going on about reefing at Ask All Sailors. There are so many different views on the subject that I got confused and decided not to get involved. Reefing is pretty simple. The first sail you raise (generally the main) is the last sail you take down. Why I was thinking about that is a freind of mine called me yesterday and told me he ruined his reefed mainsail and that he had 2 rips running from the bottom to the top. I said don't tell me but what did you do with the reefing ties? I already knew the answer. He told me he securely tighten them. He then told me he remebered what I said about using them loosely to just "tidy" up the sail as the reef cringles are not built to absorb the strees and as a result they just give way and the sail rips. I asked him when he remembered the conversation. He said after the sail ripped!! He told me he wanted a new sail anyway - good way to look at it. He told his wife the sail was old and she suggested he call North Sails. How many mates would like to steal that wife!?!

 

[Bruce]

Home-made reefing

With all this talk about reefing and systems, does anyone out there have experience with the Jiffy-Reefing system that is sewn on by the owner? My previous boat had the grommets sewn in, but my current one doesn't. The sailmaker that did my sailcover and converted my jib to roller furling tells me that the do-it-yourself version is not the way to go. My sails could be original at about 30 years old and have some 'snap' left to them but i'm reluctant to spend extra $$ on an old sail.

 

[David W]

I do not understand your question...

What is a "Jiffy-Reefing system that is sewn on by the owner"?What does your sailmaker mean by the "do-it-yourself version"? I have the ability to put two reefs in my main.On my main there are four grommets for each reef, one each at the luff and the leech and two each in the "body" of the sail which are used to tidy up the baggy part of the sail when the luff and leech are pulled down (although I never do that for the very reason Don described above)

 

[Anchor Down]

Clarify

______Don posted:Reefing is pretty simple. The first sail you raise (generally the main) is the last sail you take down.______I agree: under main only you can still point to weather decently (allowing for more leeway) unlike under headsail only. So if you're down to just one sail, normally that would be the main. No problem there.BUT, (here's my question)if one of the symptoms of being over-canvassed, beyond extreme heel, is building weather helm, and the constant rounding up it causes, wouldn't one normally want to throw a reef in the main first, to balance the Center of Effort again and relieve the WH? Does this vary according to the boat? Am I confused on this point?The main on my old C22 had no reef points, so all I could do was to douse & secure the jib, and crab along under main. I'm a reefing neophyte.The only time I can see reducing headsail area first is if you're a masthead rig flying a very large genoa: like 150%, or maybe even a 135%. But even then, there's only so much you can roll in before the shape is shot. But that's a different problem.

 

[Anchor Down]

David

I'm guessing the reefing kit is an off-the-shelf package that the owner buys and then uses to install the grommets & other necessary pieces himself, instead of having a loft do it. It's not surprising that a sailmaker would turn his nose up at the idea, if only to preserve his business (but I sure wouldn't know what I was doing, and would consider the money I paid the loft for the service to protect my sail from ripping down money well-spent).

 

[Don Guillette]

Anchor Down: Here is my reefing sequence for a masthead rig. Now , what I do is not for everyone. In other words, a mate has to do what he thinks best in the situation he is in. Refer to the articles on the "ask all Sailors" section on reefing and you'll see what I mean. Some of those folks would scare the crap out of me if I was on their boat. The problem is your going to live - or die - with your decision so it better be logical.The second I think about reefing (generally this is preceeded by my rear end starting to pucker!!) is when I start the process as normally things are not going to get any better. They will probably get worse. First,I start by inducing as much twist as the main and jib will take. I'm spilling power. If I determine I can't safely get back to the marina I might consider heaving to and riding it out. You can't heave to with a rolled up sail. Assume I decide to fight my way back. I will then flatten the sails as much as possable. Flat sails do not generate power. If that does not work, then I start rolling up the jib. The jib is the engine and I'm trying to kill the power. Once I start rolling up the jib, sail trim goes out the window. My effort is not for a great looking sail. I could care less about it as I'm trying to control the boat. While I'm messing with the jib at some point I would have come up to a "fishermans reef" (luffed up the boat) and slapped a the first reef in the main.Eventually, the jib will be completely rolled up and I am focusing my attention on the main, which is now acting like a giant rudder or a big barn door. Lets assume things are getting worse. Since I have 2 reef points I would come up to a fishermans reef and slap in a second reef. After that the alternative is bare poles. While all this is going on, I would have stated the engine. Trying to start the engine when your sails are down is not a good time. In other words, if I could not start the engine for some reason I have to depend on my ability to sail out of the situation. If I'm under bare poles I'll motor back to the marina. Fortunately, I've never had to go that far in So Ca but the point I'm trying to make is that I've thought through a plan that works for me. As skipper, you are responsible for the well fare of your crew. In a tough situation, when the crew turns around and looks at you and you realize that you have no one to turn to and look at you better be prepared and have thought through a plan. Developing a plan in 35 to 45 knots of wind with rising seas is not the best time to formulate a plan!!

 

[RichH]

Bruce ----

In all probablility the sailmaker was referring to a system that has several layers of reinforcement patches under where the rings/grommets are. These reinforcements are necessary to prevent the rings/grommets from pulling out if the strain on the reef points gets too great. A good reefing system will include several layers of reinforcement cloth stitched (or glued) to the sail, a ring is then hand-sewn in with stout waxed sailmakers twine .... and then a brass grommet pressed in over top the the sewn ring to protect the sewing. Such primary reefing points are at the tack and clew of the reefing position. Actually a novice can easily install such a reef system by simply using FLEXIBLE 3M 5000 adhesive, sail cloth, etc. ... of course you need a 'die' to set the rings. All these components would be available from a sailmakers supply .... or from Sailrite.com, etc. .... and a good sailmakers/canvasmaker 'apprentice' manual. If you have any digital 'pics' of your 'reefing system' you can send to me direct (rhmpL33ATattDOTnet) and I'll give you my objective opinion.Hope this helps.

 

[Anchor Down]

A Plan, A Plan; My Kingdom for a Plan!

I completely agree with the philosophy of preparedness. And there may be several roads that all lead to Rome. And the hull design, rigging, and sail plan of an individual boat will influence its skippers decisions.I very much like the idea of pinching up into the eye of the wind to reef the main. TGF autopilots.And yeah, some of the advice I read on the other thread made me shudder.Much of this discussion depends on what the rest of us think of when anyone describes the wind building. You try to contextualize that by beginning with inducing twist and working up from there. Thanks for the effort at rationality.The advent of roller reefing has brought compromise along with its convenience. Now, everyone carries a genoa permanently attached to the headstay. That in turn delimits one's options once the wind freshens. Instead of hanking on the No.2 jib and getting it to set sharply, it's okay (unavoidable) now to roll in a percentage of the genny, sail shape be damned. Foam luffs are not the ultimate solution.I'm not saying wrestling sails on the foredeck is preferable, or that rollers are bad per se. I'm saying the roller furler has changed the way we do things, and we've accepted some compromises in the deal.Balancing the need for the sail to actually generate decent drive (or to be able to de-power) with the nicety of working from the cockpit will continue to vex sailors and drive more innovation as time goes on.