Reefing ...

[catalanc]

Hi All,
I have a Catalina 22 MK II (currently under wraps) and have been thinking about how to set up my reefing system. I have only one set of reef points on the sail and have a "jiffy" reefing system. I set it up towards the end of last summer and ultimately it seems like a pain to have installed. It interferes with hoisting the sail and not particularly easy to use; cinches the fore and aft points but I still need to cinch the two center reefing points with separate lines. Of course, that could easily be my ignorance on how to use it. So the question is how many of youse guys use this system? It seems to me that it might be easier to just have single lines installed at each reefing point and cinch each of the four lines individually as needed. Thoughts?

 

[capta]

The two center points are not to be tied tight, they are only to control the bag in the sail left by reefing. They don't even need to be tied. I think I saw you have the foot of your sail in a groove on the boom, so this forces you to tie the middle lines around the boom, which is not the best system. Normally they are tied under the foot bolt rope.
The tack and clew lines, on the other hand, need to be as tight as you can get them, taking the place of the ones on the foot of the sail. However, when not in use these lines need to be loose enough to put up the sail unhindered. I've seen many a sail needlessly torn because the reefing lines were too tight, and the sailors too inattentive.
If all this is too much bother, perhaps for the sailing you do you can sail under jib or main alone and not bother with the reefing. Our boat sails like a demon under Yankee jib alone when the wind gets up, but we still reef the main almost every time we set sail. It's a lot easier to shake out a reef than to tuck one, when conditions change.

 

[Kings Gambit]

Forgive me, but it appears that you have no line from your reef cringle on the leech of your mainsail to the boom. There should be a line attached to the boom just aft of a vertical from the reef cringle that goes up through the cringle, to the other side of the boom, through a cheek block on the boom opposite the attachment point, then led fwd to a cleat near the gooseneck. Do you have that? You pull on this at the cleat when reefing to bring down the shortened clew of the mainsail to the boom and tighten it there. Those ties in the center are there only to help you gather the bagged up part of the sail and tie it to the boom to keep it out of the way. They should experience no strain; tie with square knots--a.k.a., reef knot.

 

[Chief RA]

KG: Your spot on as the block is hanging down with no line! With a 22' it might be simplest to just do as Capta suggests and reef first. Let out later if not needed and just straight boom ties could work fine. Merry Christmas, Chief

 

[justsomeguy]

the block is hanging down with no line!

This block?

I don't think that's his reefing tackle. Looks like there might be a cheek block on the starboard side of the boom, however, to go along with the padeye on the port side.

 

[Kings Gambit]

This block?
View attachment 131241
I don't think that's his reefing tackle. Looks like there might be a cheek block on the starboard side of the boom, however, to go along with the padeye on the port side.

Yeah, I saw that too, later. So, what's the question then? I guess I don't know. What are we supposed to see here?

What could be happening is that he's dropping the mainsail to the cringle on the luff of the mainsail, securing it, retensioning the normal clew and then tensioning the main halyard. The belly of the sail does not get down to the boom all of the way unless you also pull down the reef cringle on the leech. So he might be trying to use the reef ties to pull the sail down, which they will not.

 

[justsomeguy]

So, what's the question then?

So the question is how many of youse guys use this system?

I don't use single-line reefing. I make sure the tack and clew reefing lines are free to run when raising the mainsail, of course. And I use the same captured lines for the middle grommets to gather up the excess for better visibility forward.

 

[Kings Gambit]

I had a jiffy-reef system like this one apparently is supposed to be on my P-30. The benefit is that when you go to the mast to reef, you can ease the main halyard with one hand while pulling down & aft the "new" clew with the other. When the clew is set, pop the luff cringle onto the hook, then hoist to retension the mainsail luff, etc. Of course--the main sheet should be slack and the vang off while doing this. Return to the cockpit and trim the main sheet, etc. The clew reef-line should be loose when not in use (at full hoist of the mainsail), and should not interfere with hoisting the mainsail.

 

[catalanc]

OK, sorry. Should have been more clear. The original pics were only meant to show where the reefing points are. The system is not installed in the previous pics and here I appended a pic to show how it is set up, except that the forward block is on the boom directly below the luff cringle.

As far as I can tell, the jiffy reefing system (i) knots at the clew cringle, (ii) drops to a cheek block (starboard side), (iii) runs along the boom to a forward cheek block, and (iv) up to a block in the luff cringle. From there it (v) goes to a block at the base of the mast and then (vi) back to the cockpit so that it can be controlled.

After I pull down on the line at the cockpit, which I now presume must be as tight as possible (use a winch?), then I try to tie the center lines around the bunched sail to clean up the mess. All this correct?

So my question is whether this system is better than simply putting individual lines at the leech and luff reefing cringles?



As for the "hanging block" in my prior pics, I've been trying to figure out what it is for. Could it be for the outhaul?

Thanks for the info.
cec

 

[shemandr]

I don't see a reefing line through the leech cringle either.
To answer the OP's question, I do think separate lines make more effective reefing. You don't even need a line on the luff if you have a reefing hook on the boom. You just drop the main, put the hook on, and trim the reef line and re tension the main. No muss, no fuss. If you have the halyard marked for the reef hook, it's even easier. If the reef line is led forward on the boom, crew can get their backs into tensioning it - all from right there at the mast. Single line reefing systems are fussy about getting the right tension on each part, and most require a winch to tension. The tension backward is critical. That last bit can really flatten the sail to depower it.
If the block in the pics is for reefing, it is too far forward. It should be aft enough to pull the sail back as well as down.
And, we all agree the center two lines, Bunt Lines, are just to gather the sail - not hold it down.

 

[RussC]

As far as I can tell, the jiffy reefing system (i) knots at the clew cringle, (ii) drops to a cheek block (starboard side), (iii) runs along the boom to a forward cheek block, and (iv) up to a block in the luff cringle. From there it (v) goes to a block at the base of the mast and then (vi) back to the cockpit so that it can be controlled.

The reef line does not "knot at the clew cringle". the end of the line is secured to the port side of the boom, goes up through the cringle and back down to the cheek block etc. this gives you a 2/1 advantage rather than 1/1 with the knot.

 

[justsomeguy]

So my question is whether this system is better than simply putting individual lines at the leech and luff reefing cringles?

I would say "no", due to the increased friction inherent in so many turns of the reefing line.

I've sent this thread to the FAQ list, as its been talked about so many times on these boards.

 

[Charlie Jones s/v Tehani]

Here's an excellent article on reefing a main sail,, from Pineapple sails. Note- they do NOT like single line reefing, nor do I

http://www.pineapplesails.com/articles/reefing.htm

 

[Charlie Jones s/v Tehani]

And a pic of the reefing lines on my previous boat- a 21 footer- close to your Cat 22. The reefing nettles (the lines to tie up the bunt, are not shown) As has been mentioned, I seldom tie those, unless I'm offshore for a longer passage.

 

[capta]

I suggest you pick up a copy of Royce's Sailing Illustrated as a basic primer. It covers just about everything one needs to safely handle a small craft in a fun yet comprehensive format. No preachy tome here.
It covers reefing very well.

 

[catalanc]

The reef line does not "knot at the clew cringle". the end of the line is secured to the port side of the boom, goes up through the cringle and back down to the cheek block etc. this gives you a 2/1 advantage rather than 1/1 with the knot.

That makes sense. In fact, there is a pad eye on the port side of the boom right where it should be. Was wondering what this was for. Thanks.

Anyone have any idea what the dangling block is for?

cec

 

[Squidd]

Ummm, main sheet..?

 

[AaronD]

@catalanc: I set up a single-line reeling system on my C-22 using Amsteel, which is slippery enough to reduce the friction greatly (the big complaint with single-line systems, I believe). I haven't had to use it in anger much, so I still might change my mind someday and switch to 2-line reefing, but it seems pretty workable thus far.

I used Allen's Halyard Splice (http://l-36.com/halyard_splice.php) to combine 1/8" Amsteel with a tail of 1/4" Sta-Set (to pull on and hold in cleats or clutches). The Amsteel is nicely low-stretch, and if you size the lengths correctly, you'll only have a few feet of Sta-Set out when reefed, so the stretch on that line is minimal (which is why you're fine with low-tech Dacron line there). The combo of 1/4" and 1/8" is adequate for our C-22s; a larger boat with higher loads would obviously need to size up a notch or two.

 

[catalanc]

@catalanc: I set up a single-line reeling system on my C-22 using Amsteel, which is slippery enough to reduce the friction greatly (the big complaint with single-line systems, I believe). I haven't had to use it in anger much, so I still might change my mind someday and switch to 2-line reefing, but it seems pretty workable thus far.

I used Allen's Halyard Splice (http://l-36.com/halyard_splice.php) to combine 1/8" Amsteel with a tail of 1/4" Sta-Set (to pull on and hold in cleats or clutches). The Amsteel is nicely low-stretch, and if you size the lengths correctly, you'll only have a few feet of Sta-Set out when reefed, so the stretch on that line is minimal (which is why you're fine with low-tech Dacron line there). The combo of 1/4" and 1/8" is adequate for our C-22s; a larger boat with higher loads would obviously need to size up a notch or two.

Hey Aaron D. Thanks for the info. Do you have mast gates installed as well? I purchased a set but have not yet installed. Also, did youydo the splice yourself? Looked at the website and looks a couple levels above my pay grade ..

cec

 

[Slick]

Preventor?