Reefing

[Drinky Crow]

So, as I am comtemplating building my new main a buddy is suggesting one deep reef is better than two as first reef makes (relatively) little difference and anyways by the time one's thinking about the 2nd it's usually time to just take it down completely. Thoughts?

 

[dlochner]

More options in sail trim are generally better than fewer. You are more likely to be conditions in which the first reef makes a difference in how comfortable you are sailing and keeping the boat on its feet than you are when a deep second reef is necessary. First reefs are typically used in the 15-25 knot range and second and third reefs in winds above that. In that wind range you will either be way overpowered with a full main or way under powered with a deep reef. The reef does more than just reduce sail area, it lowers the center of effort for the sail. This helps reduce heeling which makes a difference when sailing to weather, both in terms of comfort and ability to go to weather.

Given a choice of one deep reef or one normal reef point I'd go with the normal shallower reef point.

 

[Tally Ho]

I use my first reef more than the second reef, and if I needed a 3rd, I probably would be out (or I would be dropping the sail and motoring home).

How deep is your buddy suggesting the reef be? Deeper than a typical 2nd reef? Or between the 1 and 2 reef points?

Is his idea that you only need to have 1 reefing line and the clutter that goes with it?

I like having 2 reef points...and I generally use the 1st reef. Seldom have I needed the second (but I am glad I have for those instances when the wind is really cranking).

Greg

 

[kappykaplan]

I like having 2 reef points...and I generally use the 1st reef.

 

[Drinky Crow]

Or between the 1 and 2 reef points?

Yeah

Is his idea that you only need to have 1 reefing line and the clutter that goes with it?

That would simplify things

 

[jssailem]

Consider your sailing area and the types of conditions you may likely be exposed.

Will you be sailing back from Nanaimo in 30-40 knots of wind across the Strait, surprised by the sudden wind and need a single deep reef?

Or will it be one of those days you go out in moderate conditions. That suddenly change and you need a reef. Then before you get to port you see you need more or are you going to just drop the sail and motor in.

I decided to go the 2 reef model, because I want to be able to continue sailing if the winds become blustery. It is like additional gears that I can choose. Being out over our Labor Day holiday in 25plus knots, the new sail and 1 reef was very manageable.

 

[PaulK]

Upwind we put in our first reef at about 24 knots and perhaps switch to the #3 jib. Above 35 we'll go for the second reef in the main. If it gets much above that the jib will likely get furled or dropped. Your friend may be suggesting that you shouldn't be out in a C&C 27 in conditions that warrant a second reef. On the other hand, a second reef isn't going to double the cost of the sail, and if you ever ARE out in conditions that you needed it, it would be good to have. It's perhaps better to have it and not need it than the reverse.

 

[dlochner]

@jssailem

It's perhaps better to have it and not need it than the reverse.

Yep, that would be my thinking.

Sometimes we over think things. What is necessary for crossing oceans is not needed for the sailing most of us do most of them time.

If the first reef is too deep, you will be less inclined to put the reef in when needed. Back in the day, weather forecasting was less accurate than it is today. For coastal cruising and daysailing there is no reason to have a second reef. If the forecast puts the wind above the levels of a first reef, then stay home and enjoy a cold beverage.

 

[Charlie Jones s/v Tehani]

I have three reefs on Tehani. Happy with it My jib also reefs to storm size. I've used two in main and reefed jib several times. But then I have a tendency to take long trips, including Gulf of Mexico crossings

 

[jon hansen]

if you buy a sail with just one reef, you can always add another reef in that sail in the years to come.

 

[garymalmgren]

Re op post: So, as I am comtemplating building my new main a buddy is suggesting one deep reef is better than two as first reef makes (relatively) little difference and anyways by the time one's thinking about the 2nd it's usually time to just take it down completely.

So it would seem that the boom is rigged for two reefs now.
If so you will have to move one set up to accommodate the position of the new deep reef position.

if you buy a sail with just one reef, you can always add another reef in that sail in the years to come.
This is true but will necessitate moving both reefing setups on the boom.
The first one for the deep reef and the second one to match the position of the new reef points.

Not worth the trouble that I can see.
Just go with the traditional two reefs, if you want to avoid clutter just rig one reef point.

Not knocking, but going by you original comments on the sailing performance under reefs mainsail, it would seem to be at odds at what others have posted here about their reefing procedures.

gary

 

[shemandr]

I think the C&C Mk V is a bit tender. I'd go with the more adjustable 2 reefs. I'd like the first shallow reef for keeping the boat on its feet in 15 knots. I'd like the second for anything over 20. That may seem conservative but that boat is so much more comfortable to sail on its feet. On the Peconic Bays a SW gradient wind combined with a sea breeze puts you right at 20 Kts.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

My Starwind 27 is remarkably similar to the C&C 27. Absolutely 2 reef points are worthwhile. I was on the 1st reef about 20 times more often than the 2nd reef but when it was necessary, it was a perfectly reasonable way to sail. I'll admit that I was never out in big waves with a 2nd reef, but when the water is relatively flat and the wind is really up, sailing is still fun and not scary! I wouldn't do the 1 deep reef plan simply based on @dlochner comment that you would avoid reefing too often. That is the best point made, I think.

 

[Gene Neill]

I wouldn't dream of having only one reef. Even our little C22 has two, and we use the second one regularly.

 

[alexco38]

What is the price difference for a couple of grommets? I bet it doesn't make any difference from the sail maker.

 

[BarryL]

Hi,

For the type of sailing I do, one reef is best for me. I do a lot of day sailing, some casual racing, and a few weekend cruises. I will reef when conditions call for it. If it’s too windy for the first reef then it’s too windy for me to enjoy sailing. I carry full sail to 15 kts apparent. Then a reef in the mail gets me to 20, then i roll up my headsail from a 135 to a 100. That gets me to 25 kts. If the wind is above 25 then I’ll furl the headsail and a reefed main alone is good for wind up to 30. More than 30 kts of wind and i would just drop the main. I usually sail short handed and if it’s that windy it’s just too much work to make the sailing fun.

If i we’re doing long passages then i would want a second reef but for my sailing it’s not necessary. My previous boat had two reefs and it was a pain dealing w the lines when the sail was down, etc.

barry

 

[Davidasailor26]

What is the price difference for a couple of grommets? I bet it doesn't make any difference from the sail maker.

The grommets are the east part. The luff and leach both need to be reinforced for the loads of the 2nd reef point too, which means stitching on a few layers of cloth to each. I don’t know how much cost that adds, but I would still want the flexibility of 2 feet points for the reasons above.

 

[Hull 26]

HI I'm new to this forum but I will say I sail single and double handed most of the time, racing,day sailing and cursing. I have 3 mains 2 with a single deep reef and 1 with no reef. Almost always one deep reef is halfway between 1st and Second reef points. At 20kts of breeze I good with a full main depowered and a jib, at 25kts I reef main and now I can trim the main back in knowing I can always depower it. 2 reef points is more then needed and can prove really hard to put in a second reef at 30kts single handed. for me it's one deep reef then after that it's coming down.

 

[dlochner]

HI I'm new to this forum but I will say I sail single and double handed most of the time, racing,day sailing and cursing.

Spoken like a true sailor.

Welcome aboard. The Niagara 26 is a nice boat, pretty fast for its size too.