Reefing the Genny?

[bffatcat]

final comments on partially rolling a genoa jib. About this foam luff: Im in a harbor with over 1000 boats I do not see too many jibs with foam luffs. The truth is I do not know much about these foam luffs Im sure they are much heavier than a jib without foam. rolling with foam might give you a better shape but it wont stop the jib from stretching out due to placing the center of the sail where a reinforced luff should be
bffatcat

 

[shemandr]

I'd rather take the main down then reef the genoa. There are some who discourage this practice - maybe with good reasons. But I see some old timers go out in the sea breeze of 15 or more knots, and just unroll the genoa and reach back and forth in comfort. So far, they still have their masts. In steep waves? Maybe not. For a daysail? Much better, I think.

 

[Brian S]

Hi Brian,

Nockamixon as in PA?

Yup!

Just outside of Quakertown…

 

[Brian S]

final comments on partially rolling a genoa jib. About this foam luff: Im in a harbor with over 1000 boats I do not see too many jibs with foam luffs. The truth is I do not know much about these foam luffs Im sure they are much heavier than a jib without foam. rolling with foam might give you a better shape but it wont stop the jib from stretching out due to placing the center of the sail where a reinforced luff should be
bffatcat

A foam luff would make the sail heavier overall. However, the additional weight is concentrated along the luff, which is supported by the furling foil. Weight in a genoa is a problem back towards the leech, which can cause it to hang and not fill well in light winds. For this reason, UV protective strips are a drawback - additional weight in the worst possible place. However, the protective function is worth the tradeoff, as opposed to a UV eaten jib.

Foam luffs do not contribute to sail stretching. However, they do attempt to create a thicker rolling surface, to remove bagginess caused by trying to roll the camber of the sail onto a straight surface.

What will prevent the jib stretching out, is having leech and foot reinforcements sewn into the sail at 2 common reef points. If you do not have these reinforcements, the non-reinforced areas of the leech and foot will be forced to take increased load, and they will stretch prematurely. If you notice, the head and tack of a jib are reinforced, to deal with the corner loads of the sail. On a main sail, you will see additional reinforcement at the tack and clew where the reef point is, otherwise the sail could not deal with the stresses of the reef point. There is no difference in a headsail intended to be roller reefed.

 

[IH82BL8]

I'm always amazed why people type "genny" when "genoa" is exactly the same amount of keystrokes.

That reminds me of an old girlfriend who had 9-1-1 programed into her speed dial as a non-repeating, 3-digit number. I'm not making this up.

 

[Kermit]

That reminds me of an old girlfriend who had 9-1-1 programed into her speed dial as a non-repeating, 3-digit number. I'm not making this up.

Did she dial 4-1-1 and ask for the number for 9-1-1 before programming her speed dial?

 

[Ken Cross]

Yah but

Our last boat (San Juan 28) had a masthead rig and a huge jib (relative to the size of the main.) We usually used a 130 and I rolled it in partially when the wind piped up. I also reefed the main (2 line slab reefing.)

Our current boat is a 1989 Hunter 30 which is a fractal rig. We usually reef the main first but only have one jib which I also partially roll in.

My question: with one boat a large jib and the other a large main, dies that configuration make a difference? We don't race (Cruisers) unless of course someone else is going the same direction.

Ken

 

[Brian S]

Oh, man, Ken, your sails look like this?

That is so bada$$! (I am so sorry, I just couldn't resist. You have a fractional rig. Your computer musta autocorrected to "fractal." Please forgive me! )

I am not sure what your question is. "Does that configuration make a difference?" Make a difference to what?

Given that the OP was about reefing the genoa...

Most masthead rigs get the majority of power from the genoa. Most fractional rigs get the majority of power from the main sail.

From what I have read, it is still recommend to reef the main first, on either type of rig. Then, roll in some jib if you have a roller furling jib. (I don't consider small boat wire luff roller furling to be also appropriate for reefing, though some people do reef those systems.) I seldom see boats on our lake with the main reefed first. Most people I see who have roller reefing/furling will roll up the jib first, probably because it's easier for them to do. That's why learning to hove-to, and practicing reefing the main, is good to do.

Does that answer your question?

On a side note, I have also read - depending on the predominant strength of the wind in your cruising grounds, that a 150% genoa is pretty big, and that most boats do fine with a 135%. My preference would be to have a 135% with 2 reinforced reef points of about 110% and 90%, and for really light wind (like, most of our summer) I'd have a separate light air drifter. Maybe this winter I'll get a Sailrite kit and sew up that big ol' drifter...

 

[Ken Cross]

I guess my real question: With a smaller jib to start with is a roller furled jib sail mis-shape be less significant with a fractional jib. (Yes I did get bit by autocorrect.) It just seems to be that with less drive from the jib, poor jib performance would be less noticeable.

Ken

 

[Stu Jackson]

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,7704.0.html

 

[shemandr]

I guess my real question: With a smaller jib to start with is a roller furled jib sail mis-shape be less significant with a fractional jib. (Yes I did get bit by autocorrect.) It just seems to be that with less drive from the jib, poor jib performance would be less noticeable.Ken

If I understand the question, I would say no. The reason being that with a fractional rig you want that jib, with it's clean entry to be as efficient as possible. If you need to reduce power I would look to depowering the main. Often this would be to crank on backstay to bend the mast and flatten the upper 2/3's of the main. To sail close to the wind the main will push the boat upwind in regard to sailplane balance, but you need the jib to be able to keep drawing, or keep flow as you head upwind. You don't want that roll of sail material disturbing the clean flow of air over the jib.
Also with regard to the ease of adjusting, I have to say that it is so much easier to grab the backstay adjuster and heave it on, than trying to roll a bit of jib in. So I don't even buy the argument that rolling in a little jib is easier.

 

[Brian S]

Also with regard to the ease of adjusting, I have to say that it is so much easier to grab the backstay adjuster and heave it on, than trying to roll a bit of jib in. So I don't even buy the argument that rolling in a little jib is easier.

My supposition is that folks at my lake think it's easier to roll up some jib, than it is to tuck in a reef in the main.

That being said, the boats at our lake are all under 24 feet long, and not too many have adjustable backstays. From what I've seen, there aren't a whole lot of advanced sailors. Some people can't even be bothered to unroll the jib all the way on a light wind day - that, or they haven't adjusted the furling line to allow them to unroll all the way. Drive me nuts, but I can't fix everyone's boat.

Me personally, I'd rather hove-to and tuck in a reef in the main, and then roll up some jib if necessary to balance the rig. Luckily for me, my boat sails well with a reef in the main and full jib. And I don't have roller furling

 

[Brian S]

So, the question is: Would a fractional rig jib have better shape when roller reefed than a masthead jib?

I think the big determinant for performance, and pointing performance specifically, is how much of the sail you roll up. The more you roll, the baggier it is around the luff foil, and the bulkier the roll is to disturb airflow over the jib, as Shemandr notes.

Also, if got windy and you really needed to depower, one could allow the top of the main to twist off with decreased leech tension. This would lessen heeling pressure aloft.