Reefing the Genny?

[Stu Jackson]

Does the weight of the sail material need to be taken into consideration?

I was once told it was better to use a smaller jib (100%) than a 135 or 150 furled to 100% due to high winds because the larger sail was made of lighter material and would be more susceptible to damage/wear out quicker.

I don`t think cloth weight has anything to do with it. A smaller 100% jib`s cloth is usually heavier than, a larger jib. Take in to account that the smaller jib will be used in heavier air

That's generally true, however, some skippers' 135s are built heavier. It works over a wider range of wind speeds, but tends to collapse more in lighter air.

My earlier link which came from this very forum discussed smaller headsails and their benefits. Sometimes older jib sheets collapesed the genoas, but with the new stronger, lighter and low stretch line, sometimes this doesn't happen.

Not all 110's are heavier than 130s, either. It depends on who built it, where in the country the boat is located, and what decisions the original skipper made when he bought the sail. There are NO "that's the way it ALWAYS is" with these kinds of decisions.

Like everything on a boat, it's a compromise.

 

[Leprecaun]

Google is your friend in this regard. It's material sewn into the sail at the luff behind the foil on the furler, it is supposed to keep the body of the sail in better shape than without it. Go to any sailmaker's website and noodle around.

Thanks Stu. Is the foam a good idea even if you are not reefing the Genoa (I spelt it correctly this time

 

[justsomeguy]

Yes a headsail furler

What brand? I've heard that some furlers cannot be used to reef the headsail.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Thanks Stu. Is the foam a good idea even if you are not reefing the Genoa (I spelt it correctly this time

Ha ha.

You don't need the foam if you don't intend to ever reef the genoa.

 

[Leprecaun]

What brand? I've heard that some furlers cannot be used to reef the headsail.

I am embarrassed to say I don't know. Just bought the boat recently.
Please explain more why some brands can and can not.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Genoa

What brand? I've heard that some furlers cannot be used to reef the headsail.

The "easiest" way to determine this is to find out if your furling material is "furling" only or "reefing" gear.

For example, most ProFurls are reefing as well as furling (and ProFurl, as far as I know, is the ONLY manufacturer that allows you to use a winch on the furling line).

For another example, CDI. IIRC, is ONLY furling gear and is generally too light to allow reefing, although newer ones may do that, please don't quote me, since I'm going by old information.

 

[justsomeguy]

I am embarrassed to say I don't know. Just bought the boat recently.
Please explain more why some brands can and can not.

Again, this is only what I've heard. Perhaps another forum participant could enlighten us, but if I had to guess, I'd say it would be because they're not engineered to do so.

 

[Leprecaun]

Ha ha.

You don't need the foam if you don't intend to ever reef the genoa.

Thanks. Gonna go to my local sail guy here in Saint Augustine and ask 'em.

 

[justsomeguy]

The "easiest" way to determine this is to find out if your furling material is "furling" only or "reefing" gear.

For example, most ProFurls are reefing as well as furling (and ProFurl, as far as I know, is the ONLY manufacturer that allows you to use a winch on the furling line).

For another example, CDI. IIRC, is ONLY furling gear and is generally too light to allow reefing, although newer ones may do that, please don't quote me, since I'm going by old information.

My old CDI reefs just fine when I'm creating a mess in my pants.

Terrible shape, though.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Thanks. Gonna go to my local sail guy here in Saint Augustine and ask 'em.

Please let me know if they tell you something different.

 

[Leprecaun]

The "easiest" way to determine this is to find out if your furling material is "furling" only or "reefing" gear.

For example, most ProFurls are reefing as well as furling (and ProFurl, as far as I know, is the ONLY manufacturer that allows you to use a winch on the furling line).

For another example, CDI. IIRC, is ONLY furling gear and is generally too light to allow reefing, although newer ones may do that, please don't quote me, since I'm going by old information.

Wow! I had no idea that some furling brands are actually designed (or not) to reef. That, I think, would be dam important to know. Thanks!

 

[Leprecaun]

My old CDI reefs just fine when I'm creating a mess in my pants.

Terrible shape, though.

Haha! Yea in some cases it's "reef now, pay later!"

 

[Leprecaun]

Please let me know if they tell you something different.

Will do!

 

[RichH]

1. Foam Luff .... http://www.sailrite.com/Foam-Luff-Tape-12
Its a triangular fabric backed ~3/16" foam material whose installation is at maximum horizontal length is about 1/3rd up from the tack and running for about 12 to 18" back from the luff. Tapered from the head / halyard connection of the sail to a maximum of ~12 to 18" located about 2/3rds the way down from the head, and from there tapering back to a fine point near the tack / deck connection. Two triangles with the pointy ends at the top/bottom and the maximum 'base' of each triangle at about 1/3 up from the tack of the sail.
Sailrite has directions on how to sew this to your sail. Best is to use a heavy 'industrial' sewing machine if you plan to DIY install a foam luff.

2. To reef with a furler, the furler should have a top swivel. Furlers without top swivels cannot be used for reefing; on such furlers without top swivels its either all the way out or all the way rolled up - no reefing.

3. the maximum you can roll-up reef a genoa/jib is about 30%.
Eg. a 150% jib rolled up by 30% .... 150% X .7 = 105%.
Rolling beyond that 30% 'roll up' will have all the 'shaped' (broad-seamed/tapered) panel joints/seams 'inside' the roll-up; thus, leaving only a flat shape to the exposed sail. Plus, beyond more than a 30% roll-up, the sail being essentially a 3D quasi/semi-spherical shape being rolled up on a straight foil will promote (sometimes) severe 'bagging' mid-way along the luff --- thus, severe wrinkles and 'bagginess' right in the middle of the new luff position, thus quite ineffective for other than sailing downwind.

;-)

 

[Leprecaun]

Very informative Rich! I have a swivel at the top, so based on your comments I am feeling pretty confident about bringing my 150 in to 105. Beyond that it's roll er all the way in and double reef the main.
Thanks!

 

[Stu Jackson]

Very informative Rich! I have a swivel at the top, so based on your comments I am feeling pretty confident about bringing my 150 in to 105. Beyond that it's roll er all the way in and double reef the main.
Thanks!

Perhaps this is not clear, but even with a masthead rig, one should reef the main first, even though it appears easier to reef the genoa first.

 

[Brian S]

If you have a roller reefing furler for a headsail, and you intend to reef the headsail, it's a good idea to have 3 features on the sail. Say, you were going to buy a new headsail...

1) Foam luff to help keep better reefed sail shape (as has already been discussed.)
2) Reinforcing patches sewn into the leech and foot of the sail at the common points you'd likely reef to. Just like the main sail has for its reef points. Otherwise, the sail will get stretched out far more quickly.
3) UV protective strips on leech and foot for when the sail is fully rolled in for storage.

 

[Leprecaun]

Perhaps this is not clear, but even with a masthead rig, one should reef the main first, even though it appears easier to reef the genoa first.

Yes that certainly makes sense.
I'd like to ask about technique....
When reefing the 150 Genoa, do you:

A) start from a total furl, and simply bring her out to 105 and cleat?

Or

B) bring her all the way out to 150, then furl her into 105 then cleat?

Or

C) I am really overthinking this and I should go to sleep :/

 

[Leprecaun]

Hi Brian,

Nockamixon as in PA?

 

[braol]

We use the roller furler all the time to reduce the genoa (Hi Stu) to the desired sail area.
If it's good enough or Webb Chiles on on his 5th circumnavigation, then it's good enough for me.Mastt

If you're not racing for trophies or money then reef away! I'd love to know how many cruising sailors have spent how much money on a slightly larger/smaller sail for such marginal gains. If you have a Farr or a J-boat and you're racing to Mackinac, you should have several different sails for multiple conditions and they should all be in relativly new condition and they should NEVER be roller-furled. But for the vast majority of us it really doesn't matter...or at least it doesn't deserve all the attention and discussion this topic garnishes on a regular basis.
There is sail theory and then there is your own individual boat. I think it is best to apply the theories to your boat and then experiment with different levels of headsail reefing while observing your knotmeter and feeling the helm balance. This will give you a very good idea of the best trim for your boat for a variety of conditions. Leave all the worry and expense of trying to find that perfect sail to the racers, even they don't always get it right...and when they do the wind changes and they have to pick another sail to hoist up.
With multiple sheeting options and million dollar materials and design, a race boat is faced with high speed but very narrow operating ranges for each of it's headsails. Sometimes a 7kt wind speed change requires a different sail and a helmsman has to steer a very narrow 'sweet spot' of just a few degrees. Us cruisers need not really worry about such things like we sometimes do.
A 150% with roller furling capability should about do the trick for most conditions we see...oh, and maybe a hank-on 80-100% if you're really looking to do some brisk weather sailing without the concern of the 150 slapping around or getting away from you. An N28 is a heavier boat with a big headsail (especially if it's a 150) and so a #3 like I mentioned should really reduce drag and get you flying if you are sailing in anything over maybe 12-15kts.
Save all the fuss and put in some comfy cushions, a bimini top, and a wine fridge and cash in your pocket rather than different headsails. And maybe check for a used #3. I have a H27 and have an older 90% from a Catalina that I got for next to nothing that works wonderfully if not perfectly.