Reefing questions

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Manny

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Oct 5, 2006
983
Hunter 82? 37 Cutter Wherever the wind takes me
Hi All, Today I tried reefing my mainsail for the first time. I'm not sure if I did it properly. My first question is on the rear reef point, are you supposed to attach the outhaul? I had left the outhaul in the normal clew and just used line to reef it. After a while the sail had acquired a considerable amount of draft (sorry if that is not the right terminology - it started ballooning out). Also, regarding the rams horns on the boom, isn't the tack supposed to go through those for reefing? I couldn't get the tack to reach the horns. I had to tie down the front with line also. Thanks, Manny
 

higgs

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Aug 24, 2005
3,704
Nassau 34 Olcott, NY
reefing

When attaching the new tack you will probably need to remove a couple of the slides along the luff from the track. One does not normally attach the outhaul to the new clew. Your reefing line needs to be positioned on the boom to bring the clew back far enough so as not to create a lot of draft.
 
Aug 15, 2006
157
Beneteau 373 Toronto
You should have a reefing line

Normally there should be a reefing line going from the front of the boom to the back, parallel to the outhaul, going up from the back of the boom to the reef point on the leech, and then tied off on the boom. This allows you to take in the leech of the sail from the boom. If you could not get the reef point on the luff through the ram's head, perhaps the halyard was too tight, or you needed to put some slack in the outhaul to take tension off the luff. Generally there are two intermediate reef points on the sail to allow you to tie the slack sail cloth down to the boom to prevent the ballooning you experienced. Simply tie a light line (3/16 or even 1/8) through the reef points, around the boom, and secure with a - wait for it - reef knot. There is little stress on these reef points; they just keep things tidy.
 

Manny

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Oct 5, 2006
983
Hunter 82? 37 Cutter Wherever the wind takes me
Higgs -

When I was trying to reef the tack I got the feeling that I would probably need to remove some of the slides to get to the rams horns. Then I thought it couldn't possibly be designed like that, but you may be right. I was safely tied to the dock with my sail down. In an emergency I can't imagine trying to remove slides out in water when it starts to really blow!!!!!! David, there is no reefing line in/on the boom. I only have the outhaul and the topping lift. Maybe it is a modification that needs to be made. I could see that the reef line I tied was slowly sliding forward as I sailed. Thanks, Manny
 
M

mayday

reefing issues

A couple of points - our boat (Mirage 33) also requires us to remove the cotter pin, remove the bottom 2 slides, hook onto the horn. Yes, kind of a pain, but does reinforce the old adage, the best time to reef is when you first think on it, BEFORE you really need to. And yes, you must have some sort of line at the back end of the boom to tighten the leech. Good to see you are trying to sort this out now, before you really need to.
 
Sep 19, 2006
643
SCHOCK santana27' lake pleasant,az
yes a luff tensioner

if your sail has reefing points but no luff line you should invest in a new sail
 

Joe

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Jun 1, 2004
8,161
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
Mainsail reefing....

I took the liberty of providing this link to the harken site so you'll get an idea of a typical mainsail reefing set up. http://www.harken.com/rigtips/reefing.php Please note that none of these systems uses a reefing horn. That's the little horn shaped fixture you are trying to hook your luff reefing cringle to. If you want to use the horn instead of simply running a tack line, install a strap through the cringle that you can hook to the horn without removing the sail gate. On my mainsail the sailmaker installed a 9 inch length of webbing with stainless steel rings sewn into each end. One end hooks onto the horn, the other ring end stops the strap from slipping throught the cringle. This strap is long enough to go over the folded part of the sail. If you study the illustrations you's see that the tack reef line pulls the corner down and forward. A reef horn will not do this. You will also note that the clew reef line pulls the rear corner of the sail down and back. This tension on the new foot of the sail must exist for the sail to maintain a flat shape. The folds, or slabs, will not affect the shape of the sail, if you have proper foot tension. The intermediate cringles are there simply to help clean up the folds. Many sailors use colored reef ties so they won't forget to pull them out before shaking out the reef. If you leave them in and release the tack and clew... yikes! Sail damage possible. Now, back the the illustrations. My set up is much simpler than those pictured. As stated before, I have the strap through the reef cringle that allows me to hook on to the horn without removing any slugs. The clew line does not run back to the cockpit, it terminates near the front of the boom where I have a jam/horn cleat. You can use any type of cleat you like as long as the reef line is run through a few eyestraps to keep it in place when not being used. So the sequence to reef is first lower the halyard to a preset position (mark a line on the halyard for reference), go to the mast and hook the strap over the reefing horn, then pull in the clew line till the foot of the sail is tight and flat, then cleat off. Back in the cockpit, I reset tension on the halyard. If you're going to leave the sail reefed for some time you can tie off the slabs with sail ties through the intermediate cringles. (again, don't for get to take 'em out before releasing the reef.) Otherwise I wouldn't worry about it. You never see the race boats tying off the slabs. Shaking out the reef is just the opposite. OH BTW regarding your other reefing problem. You can not roller reef effectively without a "luff pad" sewn in to the sail.... The sail is too baggy. Don't mess with mast rake unless you have weather helm problems. Increasing forestay tension is not the same as adjusting rake. Look it up in a sailing book. Your comment on the loos guage tells me you may not understand how to tune your rig....here's a link that will help. When you get there scroll down to "tuning tips" on the left hand menu. http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/index1.htm Have a blast.
 

jviss

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Feb 5, 2004
7,089
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
I'm having trouble following this thread...

The last past makes several references that don't correspond to anything in the thread - like the comment on the Loos gauge, and the comment on roller reefing the head sail. Was this cut from some other thread and pasted here? Also, a luff rope is not a necessary part of a mainsail, so you needn't get a new sail if you don't have one. I'm guessing sand_sailor is using the wrong term for what he wants to communicate. No need to pull the reef tack forward, down near the gooseneck is enough. Recommend halyard tension before reef clew tension for a flat sail. Neglecting to release the reef nettles (the name for the lines that are through the reef point s to tidy up the sail) will likely NOT damage the sail! Never heard of such a thing. Tying them in may increase efficiency, and prevent beating heck out of the sail. "Sail ties" is a land lubbber's name for sail stops. Not normally used in lieu of nettles. If you're using a horn for the reef tack, you should control the main halyard from the mast, not the cockpit. If your halyard leads to the cockpit, rig so you can reef from the cockpit, with reefing lines for the reef tacks. To Manny: can you describe exactly what lines are present on your rig?
 

Joe

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Jun 1, 2004
8,161
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
jvis....

Manny posted back to back questions... one regarding mainsail reefing the next concerning his attempt to roller reef the headsail. My response was for his convenience not yours.... sorry you were confused. BTW,professor, thanks for clearing up that terminology snafu... didn't realize I was afflicted with landlubberitus.
 

Manny

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Oct 5, 2006
983
Hunter 82? 37 Cutter Wherever the wind takes me
Joe

Thanks for the link. The diagrams are very helpful and I may try to incorporate that system eventually. As far as the setup currently, the boom has only two lines, an outhaul and a topping lift. Both lines are internal to the boom and exit the front of the boom at the gooseneck. The outhaul runs on the starboard side of the boom and has sort of a jam cleat, the topping lift is centered and has a regular cleat. Neither of the lines reach the cockpit and as they are now, could not possibly be controlled at the cockpit without some major modification. I was down to the boat today and did find that the boom has the hardware built in where I could run a second outhaul on the port side. I could run a line to the reef point from there and possibly be able to reef quickly at gooseneck. If it helps, the mast and boom are Kenyon. The sail has two sets of reef points. Thanks to all for the responses. Manny
 

Joe

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Jun 1, 2004
8,161
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
Manny......

...you're on the right track. Since you have the spare internal hardware you can easily set it up with practically no expense. All you need is a cleat near the front of the boom to tie off the reef line. At the clew end, the line should exit the boom end, then go up through the reef cringle then straight down and tie it around the boom. This way the line will pull down and back to provide adequate tension on the new foot. My buddy's Island Packet is set up this way. Walk around the marina to look at other boat's set ups to get some ideas. You'll see a number of different systems. Some very simple, other very elaborate.
 

jviss

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Feb 5, 2004
7,089
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
terminology

"BTW,professor, thanks for clearing up that terminology snafu... didn't realize I was afflicted with landlubberitus." No problem, Admiral, any time.
 
May 20, 2007
91
Catalina 22 Henderson NY
Mast gates

We added mast gates to our C-22 this year, so when we reef you do not have to worry about taking sail slugs out of the mast. They are easy to install (four screws) and make reefing easy. We also tryed single line reefing and found it a problem. We went to a two line system this year and love it. We also ran everything back to the cockpit, so no more going to the mast to reef. Dale
 

Manny

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Oct 5, 2006
983
Hunter 82? 37 Cutter Wherever the wind takes me
I think I know how to set this up now

Thanks all, you've pointed me in the right direction and I think it will be a quick, easy, and inexpensive essential upgrade to set up the reefing system on the main. Manny
 
Jul 24, 2006
370
Macgregor 25 Tulsa, Ok.
Dale/Mast Gates

Dale, can you post photos of your mast gates? Or at least steer me to a web site with photos and description? I'm still trudging up to the mast to pull the slug stop. I've got a Mac-25 and I'm assuming my slug set up is similar to that of a C-22. I single-hand quite a bit, and even when the admiral is on board, well, uh, I still single-hand quite a bit. :eek:) I installed single-line jiffy reefing this weekend for my first reef poin and gave it a try, but I find it's still a little balky. FWIW, I go ahead and run my outhaul to the leech cringle, and use shock cords through the intermediate reef points just in case my primary reefing lines fail.
 
Feb 26, 2004
22,986
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
I plumb forgot the name of the "jacks"

that are used to keep the sail stop in but let the main come down to the tack reef point. I'm not at my home computer so can't find it. Anybody can help define this, been mentioned here many times before, it'd help. It's an alternative to mast gates.
 
Feb 18, 2004
184
Catalina 36mkII Kincardine - Lake Huron
Stu - it is a Luff Jack Line

How it works - On my C36 the Catlina sails are are stopped at the slide stopper which is perhaps 18" higher than the boom. The slides are fastened with a kind of harness which allows the mast track stop to remain in place and yet one can drop the sail to the boom. More importantly, I can put the reefs in and pull the luff down to the boom without removing the stop even though the reef cringles are well above the first sail slide. The sail slide fastening arrangement is unlike any that I had previously seen. What it is called - I didn't know but Moody Bucaneer a rigger who was a frequent contributor to this forum, in the off season months, posted the following to name and describe the function. "Find a sailmaker that has been around long enough to look like someones grandfather. Ask them about adding a jack line to the luff sliders. Have them down to the boat to look at the sail to see how many sliders need to be loose. (aside - I had the luff slide arrangement for my second reef modified by a sail maker just by telling him how many slides are below my second reef cringle - MY). A luff jack line is used to hold the sliders on the luff of the sail. When the luff is loose (dousing or reefing) the luff can pull away from the sliders and come down to the boom. when the sail is raised again the jack line goes tight and the luff is held securely. It's hard to describe, but a good sailmaker will know exactly what you want."
 
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